Will Box of 20 Collections stand the test of time?
Zoins
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The Donald Groves Partrick collection was a collection built over 50 years and is being sold in multiple Heritage auctions. This reminds me that many of the great collections such as Garrett, Brand, Parmelee, Newman, Pogue, Simpson, are large collections.
Has the Box of 20 approach been around long enough to see if it can result in such a well-regarded collection over time?
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I don’t believe the box of 20 will endure as there are just too many neat things to capture our attention and collectors are easily distra........Squirrel !.....ted.
There are also too many accepted platforms structured to include more than 20 coins like Redbook sets, PCGS registry sets, die marriage sets based on numerous books.
True investors may stick with the concept but I believe collectors can not.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
I tried a box of twenty when I was converting from a collector to a coin dealer.
I keep my 20 best most loved coins.
I ended up putting the coins into inventory and almost all have moved on to someone else.
I have wayyyy too many interests and I am a set builder, so the box of 20 concept is not for me.
HOWEVER, this does not mean that it won't work. To own 20 rare, nice quality and very high value coins will always stand up to the test of time, in my opinion.
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I have always felt that it was a weird concept for collectors to limit themselves in such a restrictive fashion, it has and will work for a limited few but I suspect that the collector base at large has little interest in this philosophy.
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I don't think a box of 20 collector will compete for a title of great collections. I am sure it is all in the definition of collection. My definition would include date and mintmark sets and for great collections it would include sets of many different series and denominations. I could definitely respect a box of 20, but even if that box of 20 contained only top pop coins each in the 1 million to 10 million dollar range, I would have a hard time calling it one of the greatest collections. Seems like it would be more of an investment based or status based group but not what I consider the traditional "collection".
I have a box of 20 plus another box of 20,000
Mr_Spud
The Box of 20 is just another collecting strategy. Even without being widely practiced, as most people have goals that are outside that box, it seems to be widely understood as a sound strategy that does have its place, and I don't think it's going away.
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I think it all depends on how many boxes of 20 your collection consists of...
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I think if one has a great deal of money and has the ability and insight to buy quality, then I don’t see one limiting themselves to 20 coins. So my answer is no for that reason.
My collection of 20 slabs is a deliberate attempt to consolidate my limited funds into 20 rather than have a lesser quality (as I define it) across 40 or more coins. My coins are neither rare or otherwise noteworthy to draw anyone’s attention at a major auction.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
The box of twenty concept never made much sense to me. Twenty is just an arbitrary number. Why not a box of 14, 28, or 60?
Me personally, I have no interest in placing an arbitrary limit on the number of coins in my collection. If I like a coin I buy it regardless of how big or small my collection is.
It works well for those whose interests intersect neatly with the parameters. In this way, the Bo20 is no different than any other collecting strategy.
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I invite forumites to provide us with their personal definition of the term:
"Stand the test of time"
What does that term mean?
The question posed by the OP cannot be answered without first having a definition of "Stand the test of time".
To me the term means something or event that will always be remembered forever into the future by the human species.
In the history of the human species there are few things/events that that are likely to meet my definition.
Humans using fire, humans using tools, humans developing and using speech, humans' first plane flight (Wright brothers), humans' orbiting the earth in a spacecraft (Yuri Gagarin) and first landing of persons on the moon (Apollo 11) would possibly meet my definition.
Because PCGS boxes store 20 coins
I've seen lots of slabbed pieces of average to sub-average quality with attributions to "great" collections. And acres of nice to very nice pieces with those same attributions.
But I think most of us would agree, as with almost any series, there are coins that stand out. The very finest known 1893 or 1898 proof Barber dime, the ones with the best tone and strike, just can't compete with that PR661894-S.
And with any collection, there is the cream of the crop. Those few really dazzling, eye-popping pieces. The ones you instinctively gravitate towards. Those by whose comparison the rest seem lesser.
Maybe 20 of them?
Every collection is a Box of 20 collection. Some just have more ballast than others.
--Severian the Lame
Very deep!
If every collection is a Box of 20, then does a Box of 20 definition have any meaning?
Collectors that don't sell and have more than 20 coins definitely don't fit the bill.
I think what you're saying is that every collection has a top 20 coins, but that's different than a Box of 20 from my understanding.
When I first became acquainted with the box of 20 concept about 15-17 years ago I thought it was a really cool way to establish some discipline. But it was too disciplined for me.
It has helped me, though, to not spend too much effort merely accumulating but to have some purpose in what I collect. I couldn’t do a box of 20 anyway because I have more than 20 gold coins and I ain’t selling any. I also like having my raw albums.
Even so, the principle of spending more on quality than quantity can be a good one. And learning how to sell and trade helps you do better with assigning value to coins and therefore you end up buying more smartly.
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I got lost here!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
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I wonder how many “box of twenty” collections really are (a single box of 20 or fewer coins)?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agree with Mr. Feld. Box of 20 may be more a mindset then a definition.
My signature line has my box of 20-ish in it. I don’t think I can do a true box of 20, but the concept has made me a more focused and disciplined collector.
My current "Box of 20"
If this is the case, then it seems there won't be a notable Box of 20 collection because they will all have more than 20.
I have one, but I just see it as a place for my shiniest coins.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/cs-box-20/album/2242
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Not necessarily all of them will, by any means. But likely a lot of them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the thinking is that most Box of 20 collectors don't limit themselves to 20 coins, I wonder if any really notable collections will only have 20 coins or less.
I doubt there will be any “great” collections consisting of just 20 coins, but if there are I think it will be just a coincidence.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
If I had a garage that could fit 20 cars, I would be super content and I’d call that a collection, period.
And yes, I’d put a 1969 AMX 390 in that garage.
I see a Box of 20 as being perfect.
But what if your garage could hold 200 cars
bears didn't
20 is probably too small to stand the test of time as it's too small to make a standalone catalog.
The primary US typeset is just 137 pieces and certainly an impressive set by itself.
I'd say following a "box of 20" mentality with somewhere between 80-150 coins would be enough to make a mark in numismatic history, especially if a handful of the pieces are key rarities.
Maybe a box of 20 within a series or set for me. Perfect example is the Barber dime series. Lots of common coins, but about 20 of them hold the lions share of the value among the whole thing. I'm sure other series could have the same concept applied.
Personally though, I'm a set collector and boxes of 20 eventually morph into full sets!
I have at least 4 series with over 20 coins each. I can't think of ANY hypothetical set of 20 coins in the areas I collect (German coins) that would constitute a top collection.
A box of 20 approach has value. I value the act of buying, selling, studying, photographing, and holding coins. If I pursued such a small collection, I think I would miss out on a lot of those elements and be a weaker collector overall.
A box of 20 is an advanced collecting style, for those that have a desire to consolidate their collection. I would never recommend it to a new person. They need to get out there and experience all collecting has to offer. Moderns, classics, circulated coins, etc.
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"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
I think people get caught up in the actual number of 20. To me, the box of 20, is more about the philosophy behind it. I think that gets missed with people trying to imagine how they’d only own 20 coins.
I can think of 20 coins that would be a magnificent collection
I can think so too, but I wonder how many top collectors would collect that way.
You are one of the few that I think could do it. It helps your provenance that you've built and sold multiple collections over the years.
"Box of 20" is a construct, obviously.
But for me, after years of wandering here and there, I've come in for a landing by selling off the sort of good stuff, the dross, the mistakes, the incidental triumphs, and decided it was most gratifying to focus on a small subset of very special, gorgeous items I discovered over the years that I truly loved.
I have incidental peripheral interests, bullion, etc. But the core and special Box of 20 has come to define, focus and indulge my love of the hobby at this point of my life. I look at it often, and "upgrade" it selectively.
Earlier on, if course, my more exploratory inclinations would have found the foregoing less appealing or comprehensible.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
From what I’ve read (which has all been here, so blame yourselves), the Box of 20 is where people end up, like @dpoole, once they’ve learned and loved and lost and figured out what’s numismatically important to them. Downsizing after the bulk of a journey is common and I think will continue.
Starting out with the goal of a Bo20 sounds like an investment strategy, not a collecting strategy. How could you even know what you wanted in the box if you hadn’t made the great finds and dumb purchases before? Someone could tell you, but then you’d just be executing their plan.
Those with more experience can answer this, but I think the answer would probably be no: if someone only ever had a collection 20, or even up to 50, could they get a provenance listing that anyone cared about based on their collection? Bill Gates probably could, because he’s Bill Gates, already. But could Joe, the otherwise normal rich guy who never owned more than 50 coins?
Of course there are 20 coins that would make an unbelievable collection if you had unlimited pockets. However, as a collection that would be considered one of the best ever, not a chance.
Let's see, to those I'd add;
Creating music and art,
Domesticating plants and animals,
The wheel,
Boats,
Development of scientific method,
Indian numbers (in the West often called Arabic numbers, but they were created by the Indians),
The printing press,
The compass,
Sir Isaac Newton's discoveries/theories,
Germ theory,
The chemical table,
Albert Einstein's discoveries/theories,
I'd say quantum mechanics, but understanding that was more of a process,
Discovering DNA,
The Pill (and other highly successful birth control methods).
U.S. Type Set
The following were mentioned in the OP: Partrick, Garrett, Brand, Parmelee, Newman, Pogue, and Simpson. So, let's say collections that are collectively remembered by a significant number of collectors.
I don't remember the specific people who first started using fire, tools or speech
We know those things happened because we experience them today, but we've certainly forgotten when and how specifically those things started.
How about:
Money
Debt
Compound Interest
Taxes
The last one is the human contribution to the 2 sure things in life
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It seems no one may actually collect only 20 coins so the Box of 20 concept may be too restrictive.
Perhaps 50 is the right number?
Perhaps the number of coins shouldn’t be the focus.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Am I the only one who thinks that a coin collector limiting his collection to only 20 coins is ridiculous?
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Then we shouldn't call it a "Box of 20" or even a "Box of 50".
Perhaps the "Box of X" is the wrong way to think about collecting?
Without a hard limit, the overall idea seems similar to the "more wood behind fewer arrows" concept.
To me a box of 20 collection can contain more than one box of 20. Such as pre 1933 gold box of 20, Buffalo Nickel box of 20, Barber box of 20, Seated Liberty box of 20, Morgan Dollar box of 20 and so on. Actually the box of 20 concept allows you to explore a specific subset of US coins without the burden of having to complete a set of a certain series or a type set and without the burden of having to fill holes in an album.
LOL
Frankly, I imagine that is what 99.9% of "Box of 20 collectors" do.
Collectors are inherently hoarders. I doubt there are many, if any, people out there who have only a Box of 20 and nothing else.
I'm not sure I'd call it ridiculous. I do think it is essentially impossible.
Can you imagine coming back from a coin show with this beautiful coin that is the centerpiece of anyone's collection and immediately going to your box and trying to decide which coin has to go?
Depends on the coins. Parmelee immediately worked on letting go of his Brasher Doubloon when he bought another one.
I think the concept of the Box of 20 is to buy coins where you wouldn't necessarily be able to hold them all.
If you are all going to do a box of 20 I'm going with a box of 19 .
I have to do that because I lose one slot with with my PCGS Gen 6.0 slabs in NGC boxes
Upgrading is one thing. But imagine if he bought his one and only Doubloon and had nothing but Proof 19th century gold in his box of 20. He'd have to sell one of the Proof gold just to fit the Doubloon into the box of 20.
I think a Box of 20 is more of a metaphor to prevent giant accumulations.