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I hesitate to post this, but we all could use some back and forth banter about ebay returns!

amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

It always seems to happen when I offer a coin I really don't have room to discount.

This is a PCGS problem free early graded type coin. I'm being vague because of all the sleuths here! :#

A few hours after I shipped the coin I get a message telling me he hoped I shipped by priority mail with signature confirmation. I replied I shipped it 1st class with insurance. He then goes on to inform me he lives in a community with common mailboxes that are being broken in to. I replied UGGGH! I wish you had told me before I shipped!

The back and forth about having to watch for the package etc.

Then he said he was having second thoughts because he wasn't sure he really liked the coin. I then reminded him that it is clearly displayed in my listing that there is a 3% restocking fee due to Paypal not refunding the fees and he would have to pay for the return shipping. His reply, that might persuade me to keep the coin.

He received the coin today and told me the coin was a little darker than he thought it would be. Then asked if I could wait a few days as he wouldn't be able to show it to his customer for a few days. I replied I offer a 14 day returns. His response was after date of receipt...today's date.

I thought about it a bit and decided, this guys a dealer! So I wrote this in response:

I am writing this because you have told me you are trying to resell the coin. I have been a dealer for over 25 years and buying on ebay for over 20 years. I have bought probably 2-3 million dollars worth of coins on ebay. I can count the amount of coins I've returned on less than 2 hands. Sure, I may loose a little on some but 9 times out of 10 it was on me. I have learned over the years how to judge pictures and know when to take a gamble due to people who do not know how to take pictures, etc. etc.. My pictures are probably in the top 5% on ebay as far as accuracy. The coin being darker than you thought probably has to do with the differences in the settings between our monitors. If you have the brightness on your monitor turned up high, the coin will appear lighter than it is. I learned a long time ago most people, including myself turn down the brightness on their monitors because of the detrimental effect on your eyes. On my monitor the pictures of the coin are spot on.
Ebay is not an approval service for dealers and most play by those rules. This is why so many dealers, including myself gave up the top rated seller discount because of the abuse of free returns. I really don't get many returns but it is a principal as it is always folks trying to sell a coin for a profit and return it when they can't sell it. There is a growing comradery of ebay coin dealers that share their experiences with buyers. The only weapon dealers have is to block bidders, which we do.
Just thought I would offer this "food for thought".
Best Regards,

LET THE BASHING BEGIN!

«1

Comments

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There were a number of unnecessary jabs contained in your lengthy message. And my guess is that they didn’t help your case.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2020 5:19PM

    Care to point them out...I felt a point needed to be made! I figure it's going to be returned regardless!

    @MFeld said:
    There were a number of unnecessary jabs contained in your lengthy message. And my guess is that they didn’t help your case.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you offer returns, then eBay (or anywhere else) IS an approval service. As long as he's willing to pay the fees associated with returning the coin, and does so in a timely manner, who he is or why he's returning the coin is really irrelevant.

    If you choose to block him, that's your business, but he's just exercising the return policy that you offered!

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the guy wants you to be an approval service for his customer, he should ask you about it before buying. I don't see anything wrong with what you wrote or how you handled the situation. Personally, I wouldn't have gone into that sort of detail, but that's just me.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In all honesty, I like what you wrote. It explains a lot and goes into great detail.

    Do you know if this is someone who is perhaps sort of green?

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He has over 1000 feedback.

    @thisistheshow said:
    In all honesty, I like what you wrote. It explains a lot and goes into great detail.

    Do you know if this is someone who is perhaps sort of green?

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2020 5:31PM

    @amwldcoin said:
    Care to point them out...I felt a point needed to be made! I figure it's going to be returned regardless!

    @MFeld said:
    There were a number of unnecessary jabs contained in your lengthy message. And my guess is that they didn’t help your case.

    I also can not see these jabs. If you are saying that @amwldcoin 's words had certain connotations, I don't see it.

    Edit to add: I also think that more people should not be embarrassed or unwilling to offer helpful tips like this. You never know what someone doesn't know and if done politely you might be doing them a favor.

    Edit to change a word

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 982 ✭✭✭✭

    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LMAOROTF! Do I have a choice? :p

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    Why should he eat the fees?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Block him and move on.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    I then reminded him that it is clearly displayed in my listing that there is a 3% restocking fee due to Paypal not refunding the fees and he would have to pay for the return shipping.

    This is normally the point where the buyer files a SNAD claim.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PM retribution is a seller's only recourse with ebay.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    There were a number of unnecessary jabs contained in your lengthy message. And my guess is that they didn’t help your case.

    @MFeld said:
    There were a number of unnecessary jabs contained in your lengthy message. And my guess is that they didn’t help your case.

    I agree.

    I also don't think there is any point in sending it. That is one that should have been written and deleted.

    The OP already informed the buyer about the 3% restocking fee and return shipping. So far, the coin has not been returned and no SNAD has been filed. If you annoy him, he can simply file a SNAD - he's already suggested it is darker than it looked - and you are then on the hook for the return shipping and the 3% eBay fees.

    In my opinion, it would have been better to just tell him you will gladly take it back if he doesn't like it minus the 3% and just wait and see what happens.

    Returns are a cost of doing business.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    I then reminded him that it is clearly displayed in my listing that there is a 3% restocking fee due to Paypal not refunding the fees and he would have to pay for the return shipping.

    This is normally the point where the buyer files a SNAD claim.

    Probably. I've actually had people reimburse me costs for a return. Memorably, a dealer once reimbursed me $10 over the cost of return "for the trouble".

    But, if you aggravate the buyer enough, he will exact his revenge.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    I then reminded him that it is clearly displayed in my listing that there is a 3% restocking fee due to Paypal not refunding the fees and he would have to pay for the return shipping.

    This is normally the point where the buyer files a SNAD claim.

    Unfortunately, that does fall into the category of "the cost of doing business". Not worth the time to contest something you can't win. Block and move on at that point.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

    I'm not sure why "eating the fees" isn't in play here.

    eBay policies trump any listing conditions that run contrary to them. SNAD trumps the buyers re-stocking fee.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    Why should he eat the fees?

    Problem is, it is hard to avoid.

    If you file a SNAD with eBay, eBay will force the return (at your expense) and the refund upon you.

    If the buyer files a chargeback with PayPal or his credit card company, they will reverse the fees and (often) force the return on him.

    It is the thing we all like about our credit cards when we're buying...but it's the thing we hate when we're selling.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:
    If you offer returns, then eBay (or anywhere else) IS an approval service. As long as he's willing to pay the fees associated with returning the coin, and does so in a timely manner, who he is or why he's returning the coin is really irrelevant.

    If you choose to block him, that's your business, but he's just exercising the return policy that you offered!

    Agree. That is actually the best case scenario for the seller. Everything goes according to the conditions he set.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2020 6:10PM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    But, if you aggravate the buyer enough, he will exact his revenge.

    Even if you don't aggravate him, he can decide he just doesn't want to pay return shipping.

    Feel free to ask me how I know about this.

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

    I'm not sure why "eating the fees" isn't in play here.

    eBay policies trump any listing conditions that run contrary to them. SNAD trumps the buyers re-stocking fee.

    I inferred from the buyer's stating that the restocking fee "might cause him to keep the coin" that he would be willing to pay it if he decided to return the coin. That may or may not actually be the case. If the buyer files a SNAD, then clearly the OP is going to be out some money.

  • pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunate situation. Absolutely. Sounds like the buyer is a "player".

    Honestly, while I don't see the "jabs" per se (and I see Mark retracted), but I do think it is a bit too much. Nothing you stated was untrue, but still ...

    But alas, taking to much defensive, to the point of potentially coming off as condescending, is not always the best solution. Sometimes when that happens, it can turn against you.


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    Why should he eat the fees?

    Problem is, it is hard to avoid.

    If you file a SNAD with eBay, eBay will force the return (at your expense) and the refund upon you.

    If the buyer files a chargeback with PayPal or his credit card company, they will reverse the fees and (often) force the return on him.

    It is the thing we all like about our credit cards when we're buying...but it's the thing we hate when we're selling.

    I understand that. But you answered the question “Why will he probably have to eat the fees?”, not the one I asked.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • KSorboKSorbo Posts: 95 ✭✭✭

    From the feedback I’ve read on forums like this one, it seems that returns represent a very small portion of sales, at least for those who have adequate photos and descriptions. I’ve sold probably 100+ coins and have only gotten 1 return. It doesn’t seem like that high of a cost of doing business. We need to keep in mind that when coins are purchased with a return privilege, buyers may sometimes offer higher bids due to lower perceived risk. Those who aren’t willing to offer returns should therefore be prepared to sell for less in my opinion. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

    However, as for the OP’s return, it would definitely irk me if someone pursued a return in that manner, openly saying that they are a dealer. Also I believe that filing or threatening a SNAD is unethical unless the coin clearly is not as described.

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 982 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not celebrating the fact that OP has to eat the fees, but Ebay and Paypal's rules, and OP is a retail dealer. This is one reason I have little desire to be a retail dealer...having to cope with all of the "personalities" out there.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am not sure you can charge restocking fee on ebay. Ebay don't even allow partial refund. You can only do partial refund on paypal. Also eBay will not return fee on partial refund. eBay really sucks now.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    But, if you aggravate the buyer enough, he will exact his revenge.

    Even if you don't aggravate him, he can decide he just doesn't want to pay return shipping.

    Feel free to ask me how I know about this.

    LOL. Believe me, I know.

    I once had someone send back a $2 item that I asked them to keep because it wasn't worth return shipping. LOL.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @MFeld said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    Why should he eat the fees?

    Problem is, it is hard to avoid.

    If you file a SNAD with eBay, eBay will force the return (at your expense) and the refund upon you.

    If the buyer files a chargeback with PayPal or his credit card company, they will reverse the fees and (often) force the return on him.

    It is the thing we all like about our credit cards when we're buying...but it's the thing we hate when we're selling.

    I understand that. But you answered the question “Why will he probably have to eat the fees?”, not the one I asked.

    LOL. I wasn't really trying to answer the question.

    If you want an answer that no one will like: The OP admits to having adjusted the brightness on his monitor. It's quite possible the coin doesn't look the same on the buyer's monitor.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

    I'm not sure why "eating the fees" isn't in play here.

    eBay policies trump any listing conditions that run contrary to them. SNAD trumps the buyers re-stocking fee.

    I inferred from the buyer's stating that the restocking fee "might cause him to keep the coin" that he would be willing to pay it if he decided to return the coin. That may or may not actually be the case. If the buyer files a SNAD, then clearly the OP is going to be out some money.

    I agree with that. But I have a feeling the relationship has deteriorated since that first communication. ;)

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

    I'm not sure why "eating the fees" isn't in play here.

    eBay policies trump any listing conditions that run contrary to them. SNAD trumps the buyers re-stocking fee.

    I inferred from the buyer's stating that the restocking fee "might cause him to keep the coin" that he would be willing to pay it if he decided to return the coin. That may or may not actually be the case. If the buyer files a SNAD, then clearly the OP is going to be out some money.

    I agree with that. But I have a feeling the relationship has deteriorated since that first communication. ;)

    Entirely possible! I doubt it's improved off of subsequent messaging. :)

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love dealers who jointly block me on ebay because of their shady business practices and getting butthurt by returns. I search out regular joes and buy from them instead.

  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,072 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only input I will give here is that amwldcoin's images are very accurate and better than 95% of the coin images on the bay. Hence his arguments presented to the buyer in this regard have merit.

    Best, SH


    Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
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  • MetalMetal Posts: 122 ✭✭✭

    I make it a point to use professional monitors that cover 100% of the Adobe RGB color space and are properly calibrated.
    This is a perfect point to fall back on when you have a customer complaining about images being too light or dark.
    It could also possibly sway eBay towards your side in such a dispute.
    I've been buying and selling on eBay since 1997. I've seen, heard, and come across every type of buyer and seller possible.
    I would have been very matter of fact in this particular situation and would have replied with my auction terms in bullet point.
    Simple and to the point, no lengthy dialog. Some of these buyers seem to delight in finding new and creative ways to twist your words into some technical violation of policy.
    I also don't think it helps your case when reviewed by eBay tier-one staff, who most likely have a minimal command of our language.
    Good luck!

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2020 10:14PM

    Sometimes photography just does you in. The buyer has just sent you a warning that he may return the coin. eBay is a buyer's world. Sometimes you are better off to just bite the dust and send a full refund with no questions asked. Blocking the bidder or give him another chance is up to you. The bidder seems very wish-washy in this case and has a hard time making up his mind. Unless I really, really, really want something, or am 100 per cent sure that I won't return it, I avoid listings with "restocking fees". I rarely return anything I buy on ebay, as a matter of fact, I don't remember ever returning anything.
    Also restocking fees make me suspicious that the dealer is not on the level and gets many returns.

    image
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,542 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's basically cost of doing business on the ebay platform. I don't appreciate it either if somebody buys something trying to resell, then cant and wants a return. There is no way around a return, anybody can get one, the way things are. Just accept and move on. However, becuase of pp fee;s being no longer refunded, if I get a person who returns a couple of times, blocked. Also, if somebody abuses the return like saying not as described, or false statements, I block and move on.

    Luckily I dont get that many. and one other thing I might add" you never seem to get a return when somebody gets a good price deal due to lack of bidding intrest".

    Last one I had, guy bought a group of 10 low grade morgans, these were described as low grade with a minor issue or two. Right after he recieved them, price of silver fell a few bucks. He then filed a not as described saying they were cleaned and not as described. I accepted the return, and when i got the coins back, he never even opened the tube they were in to look at em. Was a speculation buyer. Yes, it was his right to return regardless of reason, but not filing false claims with ebay. I blocked him and later he begged and pleaded to release his name from blocked list, but i refused too, (i think he realized where the good deals were as i start my stuff at .99)

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,756 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:
    I am not sure you can charge restocking fee on ebay. Ebay don't even allow partial refund. You can only do partial refund on paypal. Also eBay will not return fee on partial refund. eBay really sucks now.

    You can and you can't. If you officially accept returns, then you can't charge a restocking fee (at least I don't think you can). Then there are sellers like me. Officially, my listings say that returns aren't accepted. In writing, I say that I do accept them, but I don't cover shipping or refund the PayPal fee. I also don't keep the return period open for 14 days. Of course, if someone wants to play the SNAD game, it doesn't matter and I'm going to lose. But if I have an honest buyer who simply doesn't want the coin but it's no fault of my own, then we can work it out like normal people and the result is fair.

    @Metal said:
    I make it a point to use professional monitors that cover 100% of the Adobe RGB color space and are properly calibrated.
    This is a perfect point to fall back on when you have a customer complaining about images being too light or dark.
    It could also possibly sway eBay towards your side in such a dispute.

    Very little will sway eBay if the buyer provides an opinion contrary to anything the seller did, unless it's ludicrous or inconsistent (ie, they can't keep their story straight). Not too long ago I had a buyer SNAD a note I sold because it had a pinhole in the center. My description said "the note has a pinhole in the right eye" (the right eye being right in the center of the note). Buyer won.

    That said, I do use a calibrated monitor, and if a buyer comments on something relating to color, I will note that I use a calibrated monitor, and colors can look different depending on what monitor is used. Earlier this year a buyer opened a SNAD because the coin didn't look like the photos, and he even admitted to looking at the coin under a bad, weak bulb, when it's obviously shot under bright lights--the lights most people use to view coins. eBay's response was along the lines that he could look at the coin in a pitch black room, decide it didn't look like the photos, and he'd be right.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭✭

    amwldcoin,

    Thank you for sharing. I know how hard it is to share something like this. I am surprised there was not more empathy for you. You seem to being doing the right stuff with pictures and descriptions in your auctions. It is not your fault a dealer bid on your items and is trying to resell at your expense. I am sure you have very few returns or hassles on eBay. Just chalk it up as part of doing business.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeutscherGeist said:
    amwldcoin,

    Thank you for sharing. I know how hard it is to share something like this. I am surprised there was not more empathy for you. You seem to being doing the right stuff with pictures and descriptions in your auctions. It is not your fault a dealer bid on your items and is trying to resell at your expense. I am sure you have very few returns or hassles on eBay. Just chalk it up as part of doing business.

    I don’t think there’s a lack of empathy. But there is the realization that on a practical basis, the deck is stacked against him.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,690 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I agree totally. I generally stay away from sellers that don't offer returns unless they have large, extremely clear pictures. I know I can file a SNAD, but I prefer to just stay away from that hassle.

    When one returns something to WalMart, does Walmart deduct fees for the stocker, sales person, and cashier, etc? No. It's just the cost of doing business.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020 4:47AM

    I see you aren't a true dealer in the comradery of things. We obviously do business differently. I do not waste other dealers time and money on the chance a customer might buy a coin from me if I buy it. If I take the chance, I buy the coin and own it if my customer does not buy it.

    We actually are having a very civil conversation. I would not have said anything if he hadn't informed me he was a dealer. He does not want to maintain an inventory during these times. He actually sent me his NGC + CAC member numbers! According to him it's 50/50 whether his customer will buy the coin. What surprises me is why didn't he just google me and contact me directly! I do this all the time.

    And For your Information, knocks on wood before he writes this, I have won my last 2 SNADS, the only ones I have received this year!

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

    I'm not sure why "eating the fees" isn't in play here.

    eBay policies trump any listing conditions that run contrary to them. SNAD trumps the buyers re-stocking fee.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not write this to a regular customer. He's a dealer and is OK with the facts and thanked me for enlightening him.

    @pursuitofliberty said:
    Unfortunate situation. Absolutely. Sounds like the buyer is a "player".

    Honestly, while I don't see the "jabs" per se (and I see Mark retracted), but I do think it is a bit too much. Nothing you stated was untrue, but still ...

    But alas, taking to much defensive, to the point of potentially coming off as condescending, is not always the best solution. Sometimes when that happens, it can turn against you.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,076 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MWallace said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I agree totally. I generally stay away from sellers that don't offer returns unless they have large, extremely clear pictures. I know I can file a SNAD, but I prefer to just stay away from that hassle.

    When one returns something to WalMart, does Walmart deduct fees for the stocker, sales person, and cashier, etc? No. It's just the cost of doing business.

    That sounds like a poor analogy. Walmart doesn’t conduct auctions. And their terms of sale don’t typically exclude returns or include a restocking fee.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ah Contraire but it is a pain in the ass! Ebay can see the partial refund through Paypal. The hitch is I have to wait 30 days before they will reimburse the final value fees.

    @jt88 said:
    I am not sure you can charge restocking fee on ebay. Ebay don't even allow partial refund. You can only do partial refund on paypal. Also eBay will not return fee on partial refund. eBay really sucks now.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlanSki said:
    I love dealers who jointly block me on ebay because of their shady business practices and getting butthurt by returns. I search out regular joes and buy from them instead.

    While I agree that shady eBay business practices are not good, and I buy on the low end so I often seek out the 'Regular Joe's, I didn't see the OPs statement as being representative of what you wrote,...or am I missing your point? Not trying to argue, just curious.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's an interesting one I had this year. 1 of the 2 SNADS I had this year. This was from a vest pocket type dealer and was almost a $1000 coin. He filed a snad trying to avoid the shipping and my restocking fee. I won the case and then he filed with Paypal, but did return the coin on his dime. I called Paypal and they gave him his money back and didn't charge me the fees.

    @airplanenut said:

    @jt88 said:
    I am not sure you can charge restocking fee on ebay. Ebay don't even allow partial refund. You can only do partial refund on paypal. Also eBay will not return fee on partial refund. eBay really sucks now.

    You can and you can't. If you officially accept returns, then you can't charge a restocking fee (at least I don't think you can). Then there are sellers like me. Officially, my listings say that returns aren't accepted. In writing, I say that I do accept them, but I don't cover shipping or refund the PayPal fee. I also don't keep the return period open for 14 days. Of course, if someone wants to play the SNAD game, it doesn't matter and I'm going to lose. But if I have an honest buyer who simply doesn't want the coin but it's no fault of my own, then we can work it out like normal people and the result is fair.

    @Metal said:
    I make it a point to use professional monitors that cover 100% of the Adobe RGB color space and are properly calibrated.
    This is a perfect point to fall back on when you have a customer complaining about images being too light or dark.
    It could also possibly sway eBay towards your side in such a dispute.

    Very little will sway eBay if the buyer provides an opinion contrary to anything the seller did, unless it's ludicrous or inconsistent (ie, they can't keep their story straight). Not too long ago I had a buyer SNAD a note I sold because it had a pinhole in the center. My description said "the note has a pinhole in the right eye" (the right eye being right in the center of the note). Buyer won.

    That said, I do use a calibrated monitor, and if a buyer comments on something relating to color, I will note that I use a calibrated monitor, and colors can look different depending on what monitor is used. Earlier this year a buyer opened a SNAD because the coin didn't look like the photos, and he even admitted to looking at the coin under a bad, weak bulb, when it's obviously shot under bright lights--the lights most people use to view coins. eBay's response was along the lines that he could look at the coin in a pitch black room, decide it didn't look like the photos, and he'd be right.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    I see you aren't a true dealer in the comradery of things. We obviously do business differently. I do not waste other dealers time and money on the chance a customer might buy a coin from me if I buy it. If I take the chance, I buy the coin and own it if my customer does not buy it.

    We actually are having a very civil conversation. I would not have said anything if he hadn't informed me he was a dealer. He does not want to maintain an inventory during these times. He actually sent me his NGC + CAC member numbers! According to him it's 50/50 whether his customer will buy the coin. What surprises me is why didn't he just google me and contact me directly! I do this all the time.

    And For your Information, knocks on wood before he writes this, I have won my last 2 SNADS, the only ones I have received this year!

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @CoinJunkie said:

    @opportunity said:
    Cost of doing business, my man. You should eat the fees.

    I disagree, if the photos were accurate and the listing stated the restocking fee. Furthermore, I don't believe the OP "eating the fees" is in play here.

    I'm not sure why "eating the fees" isn't in play here.

    eBay policies trump any listing conditions that run contrary to them. SNAD trumps the buyers re-stocking fee.

    Of course I'm not a "true dealer" because I disagree with you. I assume comraderie, in this context, means scolding a dealer who dares to consider exercising the right of return that YOU PROVIDED?

    I have NEVER returned a coin to anyone. I eat my mistakes. Does that make me a true dealer?

    I also recognize that returns are part of the retail landscape and just don't feel like getting in an uproar when someone exercises the right. Chargebacks, lost/damaged packages, fraud...also part of the retail landscape and part of the cost of doing business. They all suck a bit, but unavoidable.

    P.S. Note that just because your customer calls himself a dealer doesn't mean he's anything but a schoolteacher with an eBay hobby...oh, kind of like me. A fake dealer who lacks "comraderie" but believes in customer service.

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