@erwindoc said:
The registry ATS is a bit different. If I neglect to remove a coin from my set, either because I forgot to or what ever reason, when the new owner attempts to add it, I get an email to either approve or deny the transfer. If I do nothing, the request happens automatically after 3 days. If I approve it, the coin is automatically transferred.
This is the obvious solution. Trying to transfer management responsibility for a PCGS service to an auction house is illogical and wrong to me. Justifying it because the auction house temporarily possesses the coin and charges what is perceived as high fees is a spurious rationale.
If PCGS can't or won't fix their problem, then that is on them.
I suppose that if the requirement were made law...We could also demand that used car dealerships apply for a new title for every used car they take in trade or buy outright...
Which would create an added expense for the title transfer that would certainly be passed on to the buyer...but if the car sits on the lot...the dealer has little recourse for the added expense
Likewise...if the buyer has to invest time/money to get the cert number removed...the buyer is going to add that expense to the selling price of the coin
Are You willing to pay them for the time/money spent to do something You can do Yourself in 30 seconds or less and a 3-day wait?
If so...search Google the next time You want to renew Your drivers license or vehicle registration or get a copy of a birth certificate and You will find companies that will charge a processing fee for something You can do Yourself for free...and be ready to pay the processing fee plus the renewal/copy charge
Prices start around $29.95 for an otherwise free copy of Your credit bureau report...upward to $1399 to buy Yourself a 0% interest rate on each of Your credit cards that will fail every time
Time / money to get a cert # removed ? When you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory. THAT'S THE RULES. Why should the seller have to request, wait 3 days, take pictures and send them in. SELL A COIN, REMOVE IT FROM YOUR INVENTORY. IT'S NO LONGER YOURS.
@Tom147 said:
Time / money to get a cert # removed ? When you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory. THAT'S THE RULES. Why should the seller have to request, wait 3 days, take pictures and send them in. SELL A COIN, REMOVE IT FROM YOUR INVENTORY. IT'S NO LONGER YOURS.
The OP is referring to coins purchased from individuals by the larger dealers...then sold at one of the larger auctions...therefore...the buyer (dealer) would need to invest time/money to have an employee do the work to get the cert released before sale...and added time/money expense
In the case of an estate sale or purchase...the registered owner may no longer be with us or able to remove the coin(s) from the Set Registry
Forcing the seller to verify Set Registry removal is an added expense - passed on to the buyer
So Yes...it's time/money spent for something the buyer can do for himself - for free
Jonjet, I understand the original OP that in some cases ( deceased, no longer mentally compatent ) pictures, emails, that 3 days wait is not that big of an annoyance. However in the vast majority of cases, it's laziness on the sellers part..
You state " So Yes...it's time/money spent for something the buyer can do for himself - for free " I agree, My point, with the above exceptions " when you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory " THAT'S THE RULES. Then no requests, pictures, waiting.
@Tom147 said:
Jonjet, I understand the original OP that in some cases ( deceased, no longer mentally compatent ) pictures, emails, that 3 days wait is not that big of an annoyance. However in the vast majority of cases, it's laziness on the sellers part..
You state " So Yes...it's time/money spent for something the buyer can do for himself - for free " I agree, My point, with the above exceptions " when you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory " THAT'S THE RULES. Then no requests, pictures, waiting.
For purpose of this discussion...the OP is asking that auction houses be allowed to remove a coin before it is sold...which is not something I would want or agree with
The auction house does not own the coin...and the coin(s) likely came from a large dealer who purchased them from an auction/spouse/EOE who has no clue or way of removing the coin(s) from Set Registry
Laziness on the seller's part is a whole nuther topic - I don't believe the rules specifically state that You must remove a coin...but they do specify how a coin can be removed by the new buyer
Agree with you on the auction house not doing the removal. Costs time and money. Perhaps I may have gotten off track with the OP's point. i sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone. As for the rules and what is stated, No they do not state seller must remove, so we agree on that as well. The rules do state the possible consequences of Registry set owners for not removing a coin sold. I simply state here that it is A LOT EASIER for the seller to remove the coin from inventory when sold than the buyer.
@JonJet said:
For purpose of this discussion...the OP is asking that auction houses be allowed to remove a coin before it is sold...which is not something I would want or agree with
@JonJet said:
For purpose of this discussion...the OP is asking that auction houses be allowed to remove a coin before it is sold...which is not something I would want or agree with
This is not what I suggested in the OP.
While I fully agree with @TheMayor that in his OP he clearly did not suggest the auction houses remove coins from the Registry (which many of us believe is not a good or viable suggestion), as I’ve stated earlier in this thread having PCGS do it just encourages bad behavior. @Tom147 and I are on the same page: other than a sale by the heirs of a deceased collector, let all sellers grow up and take personal responsibility - you sell a coin, then remove it yourself from the Registry. Very simple process! PCGS then should enforce their own policy by removing the other coins from the sellers set for those sellers that don’t comply! Enforcement will create future compliance! Regarding estates, when PCGS determines that they have not been responsive to buyer removal requests, it’s also ok for PCGS to remove the rest of the coins from the set. Why not?
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@JonJet said:
For purpose of this discussion...the OP is asking that auction houses be allowed to remove a coin before it is sold...which is not something I would want or agree with
This is not what I suggested in the OP.
If You had been slightly more descriptive...I may have realized that...My apology for the misunderstanding
But for the record...if PCGS were in fact able to do that with a simple scripting change...why does it take so long after the Annual Awards deadline passes for the awards to be announced?
It's within PCGS's own system that instant updates are made to Rating/Grade/Ranking...if those are instant...the Annual Awards and icons should be instant too
I'm pretty sure that a computer programming class at a California University could write scripting changes in a few days to resolve both issues - the calculations are already there it's just not a fully incorporated use of technology
The White House just opened an office for Artificial Intelligence...PCGS needs to let the AI already in the system do the manual labor and report the results automatically
I saw a Proof Set today where #7 is a 3-way tie...and none of those sets are complete - but all 3 have 2020 Best Of The Registry icons - Go Figure
@JonJet said:
If You had been slightly more descriptive...I may have realized that...My apology for the misunderstanding
LOL that is not much of an apology, but no apology is necessary.
Regarding the timing of the Annual Awards, I believe some of the awards have a subjective element to them which I had assumed is why it takes longer than one might think. I don't think they are all pure math. Maybe someone who knows more than me can confirm.
Well, A big hit on my delivery today. I won 8 auctions from G.C. last Sunday 2/21. Rec'd the order today. Tried to enter into my inventory, low and behold, all 8 are still in somebody else's inventory. Their all the same series coin, so I'm hoping it's the same seller and they'll get released all at once. Five are top pops ( moderns don't get to excited, but not commons. 3 are single digit pops. ) so I have to believe they were previously in a high grade registry set. And yet they had plenty of time to remove them from their inventory. What with sending them to G.C., having them listed and sold. PLENTY OF TIME TO REMOVE THEM, Wishing no ill will on anyone, but this is a perfect example where the rules should be enforced IF and I repeat IF they are not released and I have to do the 3 day wait, pictures, etc. etc.
Strangely enough...when I set an email telling the eBay seller story about his purchase from an estate sale...the reply I got was firm - gotta wait 3 bus days
Discovering the NFC chip today made it instant - but the reply never even mentioned it
I was reading this thread the other day, then today for the first time ever it happens to me. I bought a coin on ebay from a dealer. Went to enter it and got the notice that the coin is in a prior owner's name. From the name showing on the registry I suspect this was an owner prior to the dealer, so I started the 3 days. Will send the photos in 3 days when I am allowed.
@csdot said:
I was reading this thread the other day, then today for the first time ever it happens to me. I bought a coin on ebay from a dealer. Went to enter it and got the notice that the coin is in a prior owner's name. From the name showing on the registry I suspect this was an owner prior to the dealer, so I started the 3 days. Will send the photos in 3 days when I am allowed.
Here's a trick I learned the other day...after buying a coin on eBay only to discover it needed a Release Request...
Go to Your Set Registry Dashboard...scroll to bottom right - click PCGS Cert Verification
Enter the cert number before You buy...and scroll down...it will tell You if the cert is already in an Inventory
You can then be the judge on a possible purchase that may/may not require the Release Request
And for the record...You can send the photos right away
Comments
This is the obvious solution. Trying to transfer management responsibility for a PCGS service to an auction house is illogical and wrong to me. Justifying it because the auction house temporarily possesses the coin and charges what is perceived as high fees is a spurious rationale.
If PCGS can't or won't fix their problem, then that is on them.
I suppose that if the requirement were made law...We could also demand that used car dealerships apply for a new title for every used car they take in trade or buy outright...
Which would create an added expense for the title transfer that would certainly be passed on to the buyer...but if the car sits on the lot...the dealer has little recourse for the added expense
Likewise...if the buyer has to invest time/money to get the cert number removed...the buyer is going to add that expense to the selling price of the coin
Are You willing to pay them for the time/money spent to do something You can do Yourself in 30 seconds or less and a 3-day wait?
If so...search Google the next time You want to renew Your drivers license or vehicle registration or get a copy of a birth certificate and You will find companies that will charge a processing fee for something You can do Yourself for free...and be ready to pay the processing fee plus the renewal/copy charge
Prices start around $29.95 for an otherwise free copy of Your credit bureau report...upward to $1399 to buy Yourself a 0% interest rate on each of Your credit cards that will fail every time
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Time / money to get a cert # removed ? When you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory. THAT'S THE RULES. Why should the seller have to request, wait 3 days, take pictures and send them in. SELL A COIN, REMOVE IT FROM YOUR INVENTORY. IT'S NO LONGER YOURS.
The OP is referring to coins purchased from individuals by the larger dealers...then sold at one of the larger auctions...therefore...the buyer (dealer) would need to invest time/money to have an employee do the work to get the cert released before sale...and added time/money expense
In the case of an estate sale or purchase...the registered owner may no longer be with us or able to remove the coin(s) from the Set Registry
Forcing the seller to verify Set Registry removal is an added expense - passed on to the buyer
So Yes...it's time/money spent for something the buyer can do for himself - for free
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Jonjet, I understand the original OP that in some cases ( deceased, no longer mentally compatent ) pictures, emails, that 3 days wait is not that big of an annoyance. However in the vast majority of cases, it's laziness on the sellers part..
You state " So Yes...it's time/money spent for something the buyer can do for himself - for free " I agree, My point, with the above exceptions " when you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory " THAT'S THE RULES. Then no requests, pictures, waiting.
For purpose of this discussion...the OP is asking that auction houses be allowed to remove a coin before it is sold...which is not something I would want or agree with
The auction house does not own the coin...and the coin(s) likely came from a large dealer who purchased them from an auction/spouse/EOE who has no clue or way of removing the coin(s) from Set Registry
Laziness on the seller's part is a whole nuther topic - I don't believe the rules specifically state that You must remove a coin...but they do specify how a coin can be removed by the new buyer
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Agree with you on the auction house not doing the removal. Costs time and money. Perhaps I may have gotten off track with the OP's point. i sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone. As for the rules and what is stated, No they do not state seller must remove, so we agree on that as well. The rules do state the possible consequences of Registry set owners for not removing a coin sold. I simply state here that it is A LOT EASIER for the seller to remove the coin from inventory when sold than the buyer.
This is not what I suggested in the OP.
While I fully agree with @TheMayor that in his OP he clearly did not suggest the auction houses remove coins from the Registry (which many of us believe is not a good or viable suggestion), as I’ve stated earlier in this thread having PCGS do it just encourages bad behavior. @Tom147 and I are on the same page: other than a sale by the heirs of a deceased collector, let all sellers grow up and take personal responsibility - you sell a coin, then remove it yourself from the Registry. Very simple process! PCGS then should enforce their own policy by removing the other coins from the sellers set for those sellers that don’t comply! Enforcement will create future compliance! Regarding estates, when PCGS determines that they have not been responsive to buyer removal requests, it’s also ok for PCGS to remove the rest of the coins from the set. Why not?
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
If You had been slightly more descriptive...I may have realized that...My apology for the misunderstanding
But for the record...if PCGS were in fact able to do that with a simple scripting change...why does it take so long after the Annual Awards deadline passes for the awards to be announced?
It's within PCGS's own system that instant updates are made to Rating/Grade/Ranking...if those are instant...the Annual Awards and icons should be instant too
I'm pretty sure that a computer programming class at a California University could write scripting changes in a few days to resolve both issues - the calculations are already there it's just not a fully incorporated use of technology
The White House just opened an office for Artificial Intelligence...PCGS needs to let the AI already in the system do the manual labor and report the results automatically
I saw a Proof Set today where #7 is a 3-way tie...and none of those sets are complete - but all 3 have 2020 Best Of The Registry icons - Go Figure
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
LOL that is not much of an apology, but no apology is necessary.
Regarding the timing of the Annual Awards, I believe some of the awards have a subjective element to them which I had assumed is why it takes longer than one might think. I don't think they are all pure math. Maybe someone who knows more than me can confirm.
Well, A big hit on my delivery today. I won 8 auctions from G.C. last Sunday 2/21. Rec'd the order today. Tried to enter into my inventory, low and behold, all 8 are still in somebody else's inventory. Their all the same series coin, so I'm hoping it's the same seller and they'll get released all at once. Five are top pops ( moderns don't get to excited, but not commons. 3 are single digit pops. ) so I have to believe they were previously in a high grade registry set. And yet they had plenty of time to remove them from their inventory. What with sending them to G.C., having them listed and sold. PLENTY OF TIME TO REMOVE THEM, Wishing no ill will on anyone, but this is a perfect example where the rules should be enforced IF and I repeat IF they are not released and I have to do the 3 day wait, pictures, etc. etc.
I had one yesterday...and in looking around the website I found a page where I could enter the cert to see if it was valid...
A banner appeared saying the slab was NFC chip-enabled...
So just tapping the slab to My iPhone added the cert instantly and auto-removed it from the prev Inventory
If Your slab has the shield on the slab...You can bypass the Request Removal process by Yourself
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Jon,
Yeah for NFC chips.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Strangely enough...when I set an email telling the eBay seller story about his purchase from an estate sale...the reply I got was firm - gotta wait 3 bus days
Discovering the NFC chip today made it instant - but the reply never even mentioned it
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
I was reading this thread the other day, then today for the first time ever it happens to me. I bought a coin on ebay from a dealer. Went to enter it and got the notice that the coin is in a prior owner's name. From the name showing on the registry I suspect this was an owner prior to the dealer, so I started the 3 days. Will send the photos in 3 days when I am allowed.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
To be honest...You really should report the eBay seller...
The seller sold something he does not own...so it's a violation of eBay policy
The more complaints they get the more likely it is that eBay will change policy to force sellers to certify the coin is free from Set Registry
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Here's a trick I learned the other day...after buying a coin on eBay only to discover it needed a Release Request...
Go to Your Set Registry Dashboard...scroll to bottom right - click PCGS Cert Verification
Enter the cert number before You buy...and scroll down...it will tell You if the cert is already in an Inventory
You can then be the judge on a possible purchase that may/may not require the Release Request
And for the record...You can send the photos right away
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
That's the understatement of the year...
In My line of work...the NFC chip proves it self every minute - of every hour - of every day of the year
It cannot be duplicated - has never been counterfeited - and is ultimate proof that it was used
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold