Suggestion: coins sold at auction should be automatically removed from previous owner's inventory

TheMayor

On multiple occasions in the past year, I have purchased a coin at public auction, waited for delivery, attempted to add the coin to my set once in my physical possession, received a notice that the coin was still in another user's inventory, sent removal requests, waited 3 more days, taken pictures, uploaded the images, and waited again for PCGS staff to process the change in ownership. Am I a patient person? Well, my wife often calls me Mr. Patient, so I will let you be the judge. Okay, perhaps I am not blessed with an overabundance of this virtue, but I believe there is a better solution for both PCGS and set registry users.

I suggest PCGS automatically remove coins sold in major public auctions from the registry inventory of the previous owner. These auction results are already being tracked in a PCGS database as they appear in CoinFacts, the cert verification page, etc. so clearly PCGS is aware of the change in ownership. This would be much less frustrating for the new owner and also has the benefit of cutting down the amount of removal requests that need to be manually processed by an already busy PCGS staff. A less drastic measure might be to cross reference removal requests against recent auction results and automatically process the change in ownership if there is a match.

This seems like a win-win-win solution to me: the new owner gets immediate gratification, the old owner that is perhaps selling a large collection is not inundated with an inbox full of removal requests, and there is less manual processing work for PCGS. I am curious what other set registry users think of this suggestion and whether there are any downsides that I have not thought of.

Dr_Bones

I just logged in after lovingly looking at my registry set for the 4th straight day. I am imagining what it will look like after I can gain the approval after waiting the mandatory three days and hoping perhaps some kind person maybe was working this weekend and would approve the transfer. It recently has taken several weeks to get slot issues resolved with my set and I am hoping upon hoping that this doesn't take that long as well. I thoroughly agree with and support your ideas.

Tom147

Having had to do this some 70 to 80 times over the last 2 years, TRY TO ENTER INTO MY SET, REQUEST REMOVAL, WAIT 3 BUSINESS DAYS, TAKE PICTURES, EMAIL PICTURES, WAIT ON OUR HOSTS TO REMOVE. , I feel our hosts need to do something with this situation. The rules clearly state if one does not remove coins from your inventory once they are sold, one runs the risk of having their sets removed from the Registry. Sadly, this is not being done. This has been discussed previously on this forum. I've heard both sides " I forgot, why should my sets be removed because I didn't get around to it " BECAUSE IT'S THE RULES. This is for coins purchased not only from eBay, but also GC and other venues. When the coin is sold, remove it. It's a P.I.T.A.

winesteven

Some people (those who don’t have the courtesy to change the status of their coins to “Sold” from their Registry once they submit their coins for sale in auction) are just plain selfish, thinking their time is more valuable than other collectors and that of the overworked PCGS Set Registry staff.

While there’s no problem with the suggestions above, the best solution is the one already on the books - have PCGS remove the coins from the set(s) of the selfish person when this is not the first time the selfish person ignored the gentle PCGS three day request to wake up and remove his/her coin!

Zoins

@Tom147 said:
Having had to do this some 70 to 80 times over the last 2 years, TRY TO ENTER INTO MY SET, REQUEST REMOVAL, WAIT 3 BUSINESS DAYS, TAKE PICTURES, EMAIL PICTURES, WAIT ON OUR HOSTS TO REMOVE. , I feel our hosts need to do something with this situation. The rules clearly state if one does not remove coins from your inventory once they are sold, one runs the risk of having their sets removed from the Registry. Sadly, this is not being done. This has been discussed previously on this forum. I've heard both sides " I forgot, why should my sets be removed because I didn't get around to it " BECAUSE IT'S THE RULES. This is for coins purchased not only from eBay, but also GC and other venues. When the coin is sold, remove it. It's a P.I.T.A.

Wow!

I have a lot of PCGS coins with TrueViews but don't maintain any Registry Sets. I've been thinking about it, but this would quickly kill that effort.

PCGS includes auction links to some auction sites in Cert Verification so it seems like it should be reasonably easy to cross reference the auction dates with the date coins were added to Registry Sets.

winesteven

@Zoins said:
I have a lot of PCGS coins with TrueViews but don't maintain any Registry Sets. I've been thinking about it, but this would quickly kill that effort.

Don't allow this little nuisance to keep you from starting a Registry Set. There's no need to feel any obligation to obtain a high ranking. As noted, MOST of the time when you add a coin to inventory, it works IMMEDIATELY! Of the times it doesn't, then the process does add on a bit of time, and a tiny bit of effort, but in the totality of things, it's OK.

TheMayor

@winesteven said:

@Zoins said:
I have a lot of PCGS coins with TrueViews but don't maintain any Registry Sets. I've been thinking about it, but this would quickly kill that effort.

Don't allow this little nuisance to keep you from starting a Registry Set. There's no need to feel any obligation to obtain a high ranking. As noted, MOST of the time when you add a coin to inventory, it works IMMEDIATELY! Of the times it doesn't, then the process does add on a bit of time, and a tiny bit of effort, but in the totality of things, it's OK.

I agree completely with winesteven. Coin collecting is fun and the PCGS registry has made it more fun. The nuisance of adding coins registered to another user is only a small part of the experience and you should not let it deter you. You can always enjoy other collector's sets and images without participating (which admittedly is half of the fun), but there is great satisfaction in advancing or completing your own set. Also, participating in the registry has helped me organize how I think about my collecting and spending. There are always coins that stand out as special and don't necessarily fit a set I am working on, but overall I have become more focused and less of an accumulator.

wondercoin

I agree. I bought (4) coins in the Heritage sale last month and all four could not be entered in my registry sets. I went to the trouble of filing removal requests from the set owners on these coins through PCGS. I just got my first request DENIED from PCGS. How is it even possible that I coin I purchased at a major auction weeks ago and filed a removal request on, paid for the coin and have it in my physical possession can be denied? What a hassle. Not sure if I should call Heritage or PCGS first tomorrow?

Wondercoin

winesteven

@wondercoin - Call PCGS EARLY in the morning, get on their callback queue, then ask for Cosetta in Set Registry. She’s terrific, and will fix it for you right away.

Steve

Tom147

Not saying I don't agree with what you're all saying. BUT, simple solution is when you sell a coin, remove it from your registry set. Problem solved.
I went to the trouble of looking up a certain coin cert # in registry sets, this was after I had purchased a coin, attempted to place in my registry set, only to find " registered to another owner " This particular coin was higher grade / low pop. coin, 5th set I checked, there it was. After the pictures, email and waiting 3 days ( weekend, so it was 5 days ) it was released. No biggee. A few weeks later, same thing. Again, the 5th set I checked, there it was. Same seller. Same situation. 3rd time I went directly to his set, there it was. No I will absolutely not I.D. this seller. I have since bought 2 more coins from this seller. Both were released within hours of the initial removal request when I attempted to place them in my set. Simply release it from ones inventory when it is no longer yours.
I went back through my email and can find not 70 or 80 but I did find 64 coins that I have had to go through the hassle of requests, pictures, emails and waiting.
If I upset anyone by this post, that is not my intent. I play by the rules which clearly state " If after 3 business days from receiving a Removal Request you have not deleted a sold item from your set(s) and inventory and your set is 90% complete or greater, your entire set will be retired. Contact Set Registry customer service to have your set reinstated to active. " End of rant.

WAYNEAS

if they only had developed the new "chipped" slab years ago. It eliminates this issue on both sides of the transaction ( seller / buyer)
tap the slab with the PCGS app and it automatically puts the coin into your inventory set even if the cert# is "registered" in someone else's set. Only one person can have this coin in hand.
I know that this is only good for the new chipped slabs and not old style holders.

I have had issues with requests to remove a coin from my inventory day after day for a total of about 8 requests. I always denied the requests as I do not sell coins. After complaining here on the forum and asking for help, I was able to contact PCGS set registry and spoke to a human who fixed the issue. The person who kept sending the requests had mistyped the cert#
If I had not stayed on top of this issue, by rules, my set would have been removed. The rules clearly state if one does not remove coins from your inventory once they are sold, one runs the risk of having their sets removed from the Registry.

If PCGS is aware of a coin being sold at auction, then I too agree, remove it from the seller's inventory. If the auction house's required that all of a seller's slabbed coins be removed from their registered inventory as a prerequisite to listing the coin, most of these problems would disappear.
Have a great day and stay safe
Wayne

JonJet

PCGS is good at solving this...especially when the Request To Remove is an error

I got a request...but have the coin in My possession...immediately replied to the email with pictures of the coin and within minutes I got a reply advising the request would be cancelled/denied by PCGS

Keep in mind that the 2021 Annual Awards deadline is more than 6 months away...an extra business 3 days at this point isn't going to matter...other than a slight delay to Your pride

eBay sellers are a contentious breed...I have one who said he only sells a few coins a year and doesn't keep track of who he bought from...when I replied that over 92% of his listings are PCGS coins...and He could use Set Registry to guarantee/request removals prior to sale...his reply was "then don't buy from me anymore"

Tom147

WAYNEAS, I could not agree more with your post. Well said sir. Like you, I do not sell coins. Exclusively a collector. I've only had 4 " requests to remove " which on receiving, I immediately knew was an error. PCGS has been great on this.
Jonjet, " then don't buy from me anymore " Absolutely, no problem I WOULDN'T.
As for auctions removing coins prior to selling, don't know what this would entail but it certainly would be nice.

WAYNEAS

@JonJet said:
PCGS is good at solving this...especially when the Request To Remove is an error

I got a request...but have the coin in My possession...immediately replied to the email with pictures of the coin and within minutes I got a reply advising the request would be cancelled/denied by PCGS

Keep in mind that the 2021 Annual Awards deadline is more than 6 months away...an extra business 3 days at this point isn't going to matter...other than a slight delay to Your pride

eBay sellers are a contentious breed...I have one who said he only sells a few coins a year and doesn't keep track of who he bought from...when I replied that over 92% of his listings are PCGS coins...and He could use Set Registry to guarantee/request removals prior to sale...his reply was "then don't buy from me anymore"

I agree with what you have said but I feel that it should not be up to the "possessor" of the coin but the person who is requesting the coin be removed from another's set that they should provide the pics and documentation to prove that they now have the coin in hand. If and only if they can provide this info then PCGS should notify the set owner to provide info and pics to verify that they still have the coin in their possession. Then issue a warning to tell them that failure to provide proof in 3 business days, that their set will removed etc. etc. Believe it or not PCGS has issued duplicate cert #'s but this is extremely rare.
I too had to provide the pics and documentation of a coin I owned and as I stated earlier "I do not sell or trade coins".
PCGS should also limit the number of requests a "new owner" can request cert# removal to 2 times as this request only goes to the "former or present owner". After 2 failed attempts, the seeker should be instructed to contact the set registry for resolving the issue.
Wayne

winesteven

@WAYNEAS - The vast majority of the time with these issues it's the selfish sellers of the coins that don't proactively remove the coins from their sets when selling. It's wrong to wait to get the notification. If you've sold the coin, remove it from your Registry without your mommy telling you to do so!

Yes, I agree in the rare cases when a buyer enters an erroneous cert number, it is indeed the reponsibility of the buyer to prove with pics that the cert number they are entering is indeed the cert number on the coin.

Speaking only for myself with 332 PCGS coins in my Registry, and 228 PCGS coins sold, I have never once, erroneously or not, been sent a request by PCGS to remove a coin from my set that had been sold (or not),

Goldminers

It is very easy to mark a coin when you plan to sell it as "sold" or for sale in the inventory
I actually mark mine sold, now, even if I still have them for sale.

The database still keeps it for your records, so no problem keeping your history for documentation. I did forget in the past to change from "for sale" to "sold" for a week or so and this is what causes problems

My advice is mark them sold, unless you are very diligent and mark them from for sale to sold the minute you receive the money for them or mail them.

JonJet

@Goldminers said:
It is very easy to mark a coin when you plan to sell it as "sold" or for sale in the inventory
I actually mark mine sold, now, even if I still have them for sale.

The database still keeps it for your records, so no problem keeping your history for documentation. I did forget in the past to change from "for sale" to "sold" for a week or so and this is what causes problems

My advice is mark them sold, unless you are very diligent and mark them from for sale to sold the minute you receive the money for them or mail them.

I am diligent in removing Sold coins from My Inventory...

But on the rare occasion I forgot - I have removed them within 2 minutes of the request

I just wish the same 3 bus day requirement existed for New Slot Requests ! THAT would sure help

oldsmagnet

For the "big" auction houses, and the insane amounts of buyers fees they charge, it's a bit insulting that they haven't researched the coins themselves and removed them from the big registry sets. It's pretty easy to check, and you'd think they should have a fairly direct line of communications with the biggest TPGs. It's like buying a car from a dealer and having them tell you "Oh, you're on your own if you want to actually find a title and put plates on it"

A lot of times it may not be the previous owners fault, many auctions are results of estate sales, etc, where surviving relatives take the coins to the auction house with the attitude of "You guys are the experts, we know nothing of this stuff." Great Collections will have a coin in their possession for a month or two, and in that time not once bother checking to see if it's registered... That's frustrating.

Now, ebay... on the other hand... that's by all accounts the lazy man's auction house and yeah, sellers who repeatedly put their own registered coins on their own listings, and still drag their a**es through the 3 day waiting window -- yeah, those guys generally earn every letter of shame they can get. But PCGS can't monitor that sort of thing (especially when it has enough trouble monitoring their own activities) - and far too often, sellers will show a "stock" photo with a cert # that is not the same coin you'll get. Further, in the event of some "shady" practices, PCGS would be the first line of defense in identifying and recovering a stolen coin (registered coin gets stolen, sold on ebay, new owner tries to register it, conflict shows up, communications can then take place to bring some justice to the scene. In theory at least)

But yeah, the TLDR of it, big auction houses who charge $1200 worth of buyers fees for a single coin should damn sure be expected to do this basic amount of homework on the certified coins they sell.

WAYNEAS

@winesteven said:
@WAYNEAS - The vast majority of the time with these issues it's the selfish sellers of the coins that don't proactively remove the coins from their sets when selling. It's wrong to wait to get the notification. If you've sold the coin, remove it from your Registry without your mommy telling you to do so!

Yes, I agree in the rare cases when a buyer enters an erroneous cert number, it is indeed the responsibility of the buyer to prove with pics that the cert number they are entering is indeed the cert number on the coin.

Speaking only for myself with 332 PCGS coins in my Registry, and 228 PCGS coins sold, I have never once, erroneously or not, been sent a request by PCGS to remove a coin from my set that had been sold (or not),

this is why I believe that the auction houses can really help with this issue
I agree that PCGS has never asked me to remove a coin that I own but it was up to me to keep denying the request from the buyer to do so and they ask me to provide the "proof" that I had the coin
That a lot of coins in your "sets" and or inventory
Currently I am just short of 1,000 both active , inactive and unmatched. I have 16 Kennedy registry sets alone, many in the top 5
What sets are your primaries?
Have a nice day and keep those sets upgraded.
Wayne

WAYNEAS

@Goldminers said:
It is very easy to mark a coin when you plan to sell it as "sold" or for sale in the inventory
I actually mark mine sold, now, even if I still have them for sale.

The database still keeps it for your records, so no problem keeping your history for documentation. I did forget in the past to change from "for sale" to "sold" for a week or so and this is what causes problems

My advice is mark them sold, unless you are very diligent and mark them from for sale to sold the minute you receive the money for them or mail them.

love the sold category
I have coins which are listed as sold but they were either given away as gifts or returned as they were damaged or not as listed
This helps me "remember" why I don't have those coins anymore. lol

winesteven

@oldsmagnet said:
For the "big" auction houses, and the insane amounts of buyers fees they charge, it's a bit insulting that they haven't researched the coins themselves and removed them from the big registry sets. It's pretty easy to check, and you'd think they should have a fairly direct line of communications with the biggest TPGs. It's like buying a car from a dealer and having them tell you "Oh, you're on your own if you want to actually find a title and put plates on it"

The Registry belongs to PCGS and it would be WRONG to allow outsiders to have access to controlling the listings. That would REALLY screw things up!

As noted, the answer is simple - let the seller act like an adult, and remove it themselves from their active listings when they sell a coin. No handholding or coddling is needed!!!!!!!!!!!!

WAYNEAS

@JonJet said:

@Goldminers said:
It is very easy to mark a coin when you plan to sell it as "sold" or for sale in the inventory
I actually mark mine sold, now, even if I still have them for sale.

The database still keeps it for your records, so no problem keeping your history for documentation. I did forget in the past to change from "for sale" to "sold" for a week or so and this is what causes problems

My advice is mark them sold, unless you are very diligent and mark them from for sale to sold the minute you receive the money for them or mail them.

I am diligent in removing Sold coins from My Inventory...

But on the rare occasion I forgot - I have removed them within 2 minutes of the request

I just wish the same 3 bus day requirement existed for New Slot Requests ! THAT would sure help

I personally believe that slot requests delays are strictly due to understaffing due to covid-19
I have and still have requests in and unanswered and yes it it is a pain but as long as they grant it somewhere down the street before the 2021 awards are issued, we are all in the same boat. It still comes down to when you started the set for rankings and not when you added the coin. I don't like this policy but the rules are the rules and they are clearly stated.

WAYNEAS

@oldsmagnet said:

But yeah, the TLDR of it, big auction houses who charge $1200 worth of buyers fees for a single coin should damn sure be expected to do this basic amount of homework on the certified coins they sell.

right on!

WAYNEAS

@JonJet said:

eBay sellers are a contentious breed...I have one who said he only sells a few coins a year and doesn't keep track of who he bought from...when I replied that over 92% of his listings are PCGS coins...and He could use Set Registry to guarantee/request removals prior to sale...his reply was "then don't buy from me anymore"

and I won't and if you decided to leave feedback, I would state his reply with low stars

WAYNEAS

@winesteven said:

As noted, the answer is simple - let the seller act like an adult, and remove it themselves from their active listings when they sell a coin. No handholding or coddling is needed!!!!!!!!!!!!

you and I have discussed many different posts on various forums on both sides of the issue but there are no adults in this world so...lol
life would be so easy if we all did what we should supposed to do when we we supposed to do it. I will not defend those who chose not to follow the rules. They make their problems ours. This is why we must enact new policies to fix their issues.
I am not taking offense to your statement but expressing my view only.
You truly are a knowledgeable person with many years of experience and I value your thoughts.
Wayne

erwindoc

The registry ATS is a bit different. If I neglect to remove a coin from my set, either because I forgot to or what ever reason, when the new owner attempts to add it, I get an email to either approve or deny the transfer. If I do nothing, the request happens automatically after 3 days. If I approve it, the coin is automatically transferred.

Tom147

Current inventory is a little over 1300. Primary set is Roosies followed by Kennedys, Franklins and recently started a 32 - 64 Washington set. Virtually all problems I've had with unreleased coins are Roosies.
I hope our hosts read and take notice of this thread. Although I've been a collector for 56+ years, it's just been in the last 2 years I've been involved with the Registry. Overall, very happy with the Registry idea. My ONLY issue has been the unreleased issue.

oldsmagnet

The Registry belongs to PCGS and it would be WRONG to allow outsiders to have access to controlling the listings. That would REALLY screw things up!

No outsiders or external controls - Auction house takes in the coin, either on direct sale or consignment, and THEY submit the removal request to PCGS (or NGC where applicable) The AUCTION HOUSE waits the mandatory three days for forced removal, not the end user. The fact that auction houses aren't doing this, in my eye at least, is pure negligence on their part.

As noted, the answer is simple - let the seller act like an adult, and remove it themselves from their active listings when they sell a coin. No handholding or coddling is needed!!!!!!!!!!!!

And in the case of the big auction house being the seller.... well... ;-) (Or in the case of an estate sale where the PCGS-Registered owner has passed away and can't remove it...) -- ~someone's~ going to have to send pictures in to PCGS to force the registry removal... it might as well be the place that's skimming off 10~20% of the coin's value for themselves...

TheMayor

My intention with this suggestion was not to create more work for the auction houses or any other third parties. It is not realistic to expect the auction companies to have any desire to be involved in this process in my opinion. My idea is when PCGS is ingesting auction results data, they could add a script to compare the cert #s sold in the auction to the cert #s in the set registry and remove any matches in an automated fashion. It should be easy code for their development team to write and would save them a lot of work in the long run.

oldsmagnet

@TheMayor said:
My idea is when PCGS is ingesting auction results data, they could add a script to compare the cert #s sold in the auction to the cert #s in the set registry and remove any matches in an automated fashion.

PCGS and the Set Registry Team don't have the resources to play those kinds of games - just look how long it took 'em to get through the awards this year. Further, far too many coins up for sale (specifically ebay) either don't list a cert number at all, or don't list the correct one, cheaping out by using a "stock photo". Strike three, what happens when a stolen coin lands on ebay? If PCGS were to just blindly unlist it from the real owner's account, there's a very real chance that thief would not get caught.

Remember, the Set Registry does ALL of their activities, essentially, for free. (Presumably funded by PCGS membership fees, but Registry members do not pay a dime for the services). Big auction houses charge HUGE fees to sell every coin. And they ARE the ones who are actually "selling" the coin. So which of those two entities should bear the responsibility of making sure the item being sold actually has a right be sold? (Hint, it's not PCGS)

(And as a side note, as far as PCGS ingesting the auction house data - none of that happens in real time - I'd bet many of their auctions they report are several months old. Meaning, by your suggestion, if you buy a coin at auction, and successfully register it to your account, they'll see that auction information a few months later, and then forcibly unlist that coin -- from your account. Definitely has the potential to be an absolute disaster there)

It is supposed to be the seller's responsibility to remove a coin when it's sold. In the case of big auction houses, they ARE acting as the seller, therefor it ~should~ be their responsibility to make sure that simple step is checked and completed.

winesteven

While @oldsmagnet makes a lot of sense in many of his/her points above, I disagree on the very final point. It’s only semantics as to who the “seller” is. The present system is easy for the individual owner who places the coin for sale (you or me) to simply remove the coin from our own registry when WE place our coin for sale, whether we sell it privately to an individual or a dealer, or place it with an auction house or eBay. Just change the status to “Sold”. We all need to put on our “Big Boy Pants”, and do that simple task, and not look for our mommies to clean up after us!

With all the posts above, no one has explained what is so difficult about each participant in the Registry accepting personal responsibility and doing this very easy task!

jabba

I must admit I’m horrible about removing coins from my set it would be nice if it was automatically done guess I need to get that cleaned up I have had to request coins be removed from other sets it’s always worked out ok

winesteven

@jabba said:
I must admit I’m horrible about removing coins from my set it would be nice if it was automatically done guess I need to get that cleaned up I have had to request coins be removed from other sets it’s always worked out ok

Thanks for recognizing the problem. However, while "it's always worked out OK", you're ignoring the extra time and work it takes from the other collector and from PCGS. As you indicate, PLEASE remove the coins on your own from your Registry when they are sold. It's just common courtesy of others, and not difficult. Thanks

TheMayor

I suppose this is anecdotal, but in the recent Heritage/Simpson sale, the auction results were on the website within a day or two, way before I physically received the coin. I haven't paid as close attention, but it feels like the weekly DLRC auctions are up on PCGS's pages pretty quickly as well. Regardless, @oldsmagnet brings up a good point about building in safeguards so that coins are not removed in error. First, I would exclude eBay results from this process as I agree that their data is not as reliable. Regarding his concern about the lag in auction results being stored, I think this is easily solved by comparing the date of the auction to the date the user added the coin to their registry (again, in an automated fashion - no human involvement). Coins that are added to an inventory after the auction date would not be removed. This assumes that the date users add coins to their inventory is stored somewhere by PCGS. But if it is not, no time like the present to start!

To say that the Set Registry is a free service offered by PCGS is a very narrow way to look at it in my opinion. Yes, we don't have to pay a fee to participate, but I don't believe public companies like Collectors Universe are in the habit of providing services out of the goodness of their hearts. The registry indirectly drives a lot of business for PCGS (e.g., new submissions, reconsiderations, crosses from other services). Participants can only add PCGS-graded coins to their registry sets. Whether they are "making" the coins themselves or buying them on the secondary market, PCGS benefits directly or indirectly from their participation in the registry and support of PCGS products more generally. PCGS is incentivized to make the Set Registry experience as pleasant as possible, and I think they have a history of doing exactly that. The PCGS Set Registry phone app, for example, is a fantastic product that I am sure was not free to develop.

This brings me to my last point. @oldsmagnet you say they don't have the resources to do this work, but I guarantee this is a positive return on investment (ROI) project for PCGS: a little bit of coding/development work up front to save a lot of man hours on the back end. Big companies like PCGS/Collectors Universe do have technology budgets and technology plans for the next year or two or three. I can't pretend to know where this suggestion would slot vs. the other projects that are on their tech list in terms of profitability. You'd have to work for the company to know how many hours they spend processing registry requests and how this compares to the other inefficiencies that they hope to solve through automation. My hope in writing this post was that someone at PCGS would take notice and say, "hey, this is a good idea that might not be too difficult to implement and would make our customers happy. Let me pass it along." I agree, it seems like now might not be the time they do this with Covid, work-from-home, turnover on the team, the pending sale of the parent company etc. but maybe they will revisit sometime in the future when circumstances allow.

winesteven

@TheMayor - So as i asked above, please explain what is so difficult about each participant in the Registry accepting personal responsibility and doing this very easy task? THAT is so much simpler than your proposal. While in theory your proposal could work with significant reprogramming, and then continual adjustments over time as needed to fix all of the glitches, the present way works extremely well EXCEPT when participants don't extend common courtesy to other collectors. My point is PCGS should then enforce their current rule on the books and remove the other coins from the sets of the rude collectors. If that was done regularly, this entire issue would then soon be moot!

TheMayor

@winesteven said:
@TheMayor - So as i asked above, please explain what is so difficult about each participant in the Registry accepting personal responsibility and doing this very easy task? THAT is so much simpler than your proposal. While in theory your proposal could work with significant reprogramming, and then continual adjustments over time as needed to fix all of the glitches, the present way works extremely well EXCEPT when participants don't extend common courtesy to other collectors. My point is PCGS should then enforce their current rule on the books and remove the other coins from the sets of the rude collectors. If that was done regularly, this entire issue would then soon be moot!

I don't know why many people don't remove items themselves, only that they don't. Perhaps they are not the type to check email or engage with technology often, perhaps they are no longer with us and their estate has sold the coin, perhaps they are just rude. There are probably a lot of good (and bad) reasons why the process is not working as we wish it would. My proposal was intended to address this reality. And I acknowledge that even if it could be implemented in a reliable way, it would only help, not entirely solve this problem.

Regarding PCGS enforcing their current rule, it seems to me that it could only help the situation if they were to do so. I do not know why it is not enforced, but I am sure PCGS has their reasons.

winesteven

Understood. Separately if I were a shareholder of CU or a part owner of the new private company (and I am not either of those), I would not want a penny spent on the programming you describe, when the system works pretty well AND if PCGS were to enforce their rule, it would be pretty close to perfect.

TheMayor

I think it is hard to make that statement without knowing more details. What if it could be coded and tested by an in-house developer and QA person in less than a week but would save 8 or 16 staff hours a week in perpetuity? I agree the current system works relatively well, but there is a cost to PCGS in terms of people/effort to ensure it works as well as it does. I would want to know more before saying it's not worth it but we can agree to disagree on this point.

winesteven

I think we can agree that if indeed PCGS regularly enforced their rule, that in and of itself would save the staff time that your suggestion would also save. I also agree that on the rest, we can agree to disagree.

Tom147

Valid points by all. As was posted earlier, play by the rules which I clearly quoted. If you sell a coin, remove it from your inventory or risk having your sets removed from registry. On a call to PCGS earlier this year I brought up this point to the rep. at PCGS. I was told that some people don't have access to computers ( REALLY ?, they had them in their inventory to start, they sold the coins on eBay, GC or other venues ) Start smacking the dog for biting you, he'll quit biting you. ( An analogy, I have a new puppy ) Start enforcing the rules by removing sets, they'll start removing coins when they are sold.

oldsmagnet

One point I suggested earlier, and has kinda been overlooked I think, in terms of the "seller" removing the coin - in many "Big Auction House" cases,. the original "seller" is dead, and it's the next-of-kin and/or estate handling the liquidation of assets - they enlist the big auction houses to do "what they do best" -- because it's what they do best. The next of kin and/or estate will likely have no clue about a registry set status, and would likely have no clue how to properly close one out, especially when they have no clue how to even just sell the coins. Auction houses are intimately familiar with registry sets (and if it's a top-pop coin, you know they'll brag THAT up on their auction listings to try to maximize the interest and bidding. When they verify it's population status, that very same screen will show if a coin is locked to a specific person's registry set, if they would bother to scroll down. Auction houses PROFIT heavily from that specific sale, they're actively selling it, they SHOULD take the extra due diligence to make sure they're truly selling a "saleable" product. In terms when the registry holder is still alive and actively selling, yes, it's just plain laziness and neglect to not unlist their items.

winesteven

But don't overlook that the present system, if PCGS will enforce their rule, handles this estate situation perfectly! Once one of those coins is reported to PCGS by the new buyer as now being with a new owner, after three days PCGS will then remove ALL of the deceased owners coins in that set from the Registry. Easy peasy! There's still NO valid need to get the auction houses involved, as the new owners of the other coins will then have had PCGS remove those coins from that deceased owners set(s)!

Martin

WOW a fiery conversation in the set registry. Its been a while.

Martin

Tom147

winesteven, ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

oldsmagnet

Agree to disagree, certainly, but if I have to give a big auction house some $1200 worth of buyers fees for a 5-figure coin that they've sat on for a month or more, and then I have to wait until the coin shows up to begin another three-plus day wait period to get the coin cleared, ~I~ am going to call that auction house LAZY. If PCGS's current system is considered "Easy Peasy" well, there's really no point for this thread in the first place because all the lazy sellers need to do is let the buyer do all the work, right? (And for clarification, PCGS will only remove the coins that are specifically requested for removal, which still only happens AFTER the coin lands in the new owners hands. PCGS rules prevent a new owner from making the removal request before gaining actual physical possession) The only "bulk removal" in a situation like that, is that the ~set~ will be retired, but all of the remaining coins will still stay in the previous owner's inventory

(Certainly not intending to be fiery here... but glad there's some entertainment to be provided )

wondercoin

Shout out to the entire PCGS set registry team who helped me clear up the 4 coins I won in the November Heritage auction (including 3 Simpson coins) - one of which ownership was purportedly being challenged by the prior owner and the “big boss” at set registry needed to step in! Wondercoin

scubafuel

How about this? You’re allowed to put whatever coin you want into your registry, with a pop up warning that if it’s proven you have put in a coin you do not own, you are permanently removed from the registry. Since 99.99% of attempts are legit and honest, this seems like it would drastically cut down on Pcgs manpower needed to manage the system.

I may be missing something, not being much of a registry guy at present.

Tom147

scubafuel, I've typed 3 or 4 responses to this, then deleted before posting as I don't really want banned from the forum. You say you're not a Registry guy ? O.K.
This thread has pretty much been centered on people following the already established rules, NOT creating new problems.

oldsmagnet

@scubafuel said:
if it’s proven you have put in a coin you do not own, you are permanently removed from the registry.

An apples-to-oranges argument, since that insinuates legitimate intent to defraud, and probably ~should~ warrant a ban, but that has nothing to do with the negligence of forgetting to remove a coin you've sold. Taking it one step further though, consider the newer/greener collectors getting stung by any of the endless Chinese counterfeit pieces out there - it's only a matter of time before two registry users have the same cert number in their hands at the same time - one real, one fake - and they both believe they're holding the real deal. I've personally been asked to prove I'm holding a certain cert number because someone else had tried to add it to their set. Was it a typo on their end? Was it a seller using a stock-image on their ebay listing and the auction winner added the cert before the coin arrived? Was it pure blatant fraud? I don't know. But PCGS staff was there to maintain a personal link to the scenario, rather than just blindly drop a blanket ban on both of us, and personally I'm grateful for that.

scubafuel

It’s fair, and obviously a personal touch would still be needed. But whenever you have an situation where there are many more of one type of error (coin stuck in old registry) than the other (someone trying to “steal” your registry coin), it seems to make sense to focus limited personnel on the latter issue.
Grouching about “if people would just have a little consideration!” has never actually solved any operational issues that I’m aware of.

oldsmagnet

@scubafuel said:
Grouching about “if people would just have a little consideration!” has never actually solved any operational issues that I’m aware of.

Truer words never spoken, right there :-)