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why gold and silver went up today

coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

there was a new 908 billion dollar stimulus bill proposed today, it doesn't include a 1,200 dollar payout for people making 75,000 or less, this made the u.s. dollar come down and in turn made precious metals go up. will gold and silver continue to go up? who knows, thoughts?
https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2020/12/second-stimulus-check-update-theres-no-1200-payment-in-this-new-bipartisan-bill-heres-the-latest.html

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  • HJPHJP Posts: 423 ✭✭✭

    The time is ripe for price volatility. Watch out for bull & bear traps in this “highly managed” market.
    The trend is your friend, until it isn’t.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems the "manipulators" are at it again.

  • HJPHJP Posts: 423 ✭✭✭

    A lot of strong hands seem to have “bought the dip” (about $1B worth of physical) last week. Only a pittance in the scheme of things - but some people with a lot of money seem to be hedging their bets...

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice run up today.

    I was fortunate to buy two platinum ETFs at a low of $850 an ounce about a month ago.

    Platinum has been doing well even on days when gold and silver drops a little.

    Couple that with Docebo 'DCBO', a tech stock that has run up from $16 to $72 in seven months time (I got in at $28) and it's been a very good month and just opened today on the Nasdaq, as it's been trading on the Toronto stock exchange.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "Gold is the canary in the financial coal mine." (Alan Greenspan)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    908 billion is a far cry from the $3+ Trillion wanted by other members of congress. Still, dilutive to the Dollar. I expect Gold above $2000 in 2021.

    email: [email protected]

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yep, i think gold will be over 2,000 in 2021 also

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinpalice said:
    will gold and silver continue to go up? who knows, thoughts?

    will dollars continue to be freely plucked from the tree?

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yesterday's rise in the metals was a clear market reaction to monetary policy. Sure looks like it. Every once in awhile, the market gets to speak.

    Now, back to our regularly-scheduled market programming.....

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yep, giving money away that you don't even have is not a sound monetary policy, i think gold has enough momentum to push to 1,900 before end of year

  • rickoricko Posts: 78,995 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe we may be in for rising metals for a while... I would say we may soon be enjoying 2000+ figures. That being said, based on my past efforts at predictive statements, get ready for a big dip. :D;) Cheers, RickO

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 41,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Things go up when the fundamentals and industrial needs require. Then there are pencil pushers and paper shufflers. And projections and balances and it all gets muddled after that. Why ? Great question.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just like any asset....things go up, when the market makers aka speculators, decide the time is ripe to load up, or unload to take a profit. Agree...supply & demand at times, does play into their game plan.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • GoldenageGoldenage Posts: 285 ✭✭✭

    Gold 2200 by April.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldenage said:
    Gold 2200 by April.

    Maybe, but my guess,... under $2k

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 113 ✭✭✭

    One problem may be bitcoin. It is rooster blocking gold a bit right now.

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    gold just blew by a key resistance level of 1,850 and 1,925 is now in the cards

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    . . . and bitcoin just hit new highs.

    In the news:

    Germans suddenly hoarding gold and silver

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i was going to revive this thread, but i got help, 1925 is now in play

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    gold should have a clear path to 1,970 now that 1,925 has been broke

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And apparently palladium has a clear path upwards, too, My Eagles continue to look more appealing.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold and Silver didn't go up, the dollar went down. An ounce of Au or Ag is always an ounce - it never changes.

    thefinn
  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    depends on you look at it, but not all people collect and invest in gold and silver, if your holding dollars, it might be time to convert

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinpalice said:
    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

    Why will this cause inflation? We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 11,886 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @coinpalice said:
    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

    Why will this cause inflation? We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

    I’m pretty sure that because of the virus slowing everything down and putting a LOT of people out of work along with businesses going belly up spells disaster. Our country is going down a road never traveled before and I’m worried. I won’t comment on what the political climate will be for the next four years and what it’ll do to the dollar but, oh boy😐
    All told I truly believe gold and silver has more room to go up than down.
    Happy prospecting😊

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • rte592rte592 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @coinpalice said:
    We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

    Wait WHAT?
    look around, I see it everywhere.
    Grocery store, higher prices for smaller portions.
    1/2" washers at the hardware store are 25% more expensive along with lumber and other materials.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @crazyhounddog said:

    @blitzdude said:

    @coinpalice said:
    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

    Why will this cause inflation? We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

    I’m pretty sure that because of the virus slowing everything down and putting a LOT of people out of work along with businesses going belly up spells disaster. Our country is going down a road never traveled before and I’m worried. I won’t comment on what the political climate will be for the next four years and what it’ll do to the dollar but, oh boy😐
    All told I truly believe gold and silver has more room to go up than down.
    Happy prospecting😊

    Oh no doubt gold is going up. Blaming it on the "dems" however is beyond ridiculous.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021 2:30PM

    @blitzdude said:

    @coinpalice said:
    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

    Why will this cause inflation? We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

    Where's the inflation? lol
    Take another look at financial asset gains over the last ten years. While you're at it take another look at who the majority is when it comes to purchasing these assets. Hint: not the bottom 90%. Where new money goes determines what it is spent on and what will be inflated (like a bubble). The FED and congress determine how and to whom new money will be released. It is usually who is financially supporting them. Consumers (taxpayers) really don't pay them that well. To quell the masses their helicopters are starting to sprinkle a few crumbs. An increase in social programs (think basic income for all) will increase the sprinkling. Enough outcry from the masses and the sprinkles could easily become a consumer price inflation downpour.

    Inflation is defined as an increase in the money supply. Price inflation always follows inflation. It has just not been obvious to the majority of "inflation scouts" because it has not yet had a great affect on consumer goods and services. That will change as the "new" political flavor puts more money into actual consumers' hands.

    Why gold and silver are and have been going up? Simple. Let Mish and his charts explain it to you:

    Mish: "The best correlation I can find to the price of gold is faith in central banks."

    How's your faith hanging with your central bank?

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 12,121 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see $2300 per ounce this year

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @coinpalice said:
    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

    Why will this cause inflation? We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

    derryb summed it up pretty well, but what happens is you put stimulus money in the hands of people who are actually going to go out and spend it, this will increase consumer demand and cause shortages for certain things and cause inflation. i have a masters degree and i have studied this in college, look me up in about 8 months and i will tell you i told you so

  • coinpalicecoinpalice Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    @crazyhounddog said:

    @blitzdude said:

    @coinpalice said:
    usually don't talk political, but the reason gold and silver went up this time is from the Georgia senate seats being really close, if the dems win, it will swing the senate to the dems majority and new stimulus packages will have a easier time going through congress, this will cause inflation later on in 2021 also, which is another reason to own gold and silver now

    Why will this cause inflation? We've been on a 4 year stimulus Almost $8T and counting. Biggest 4 year debt increase in our nations history. Where's the inflation? lol

    I’m pretty sure that because of the virus slowing everything down and putting a LOT of people out of work along with businesses going belly up spells disaster. Our country is going down a road never traveled before and I’m worried. I won’t comment on what the political climate will be for the next four years and what it’ll do to the dollar but, oh boy😐
    All told I truly believe gold and silver has more room to go up than down.
    Happy prospecting😊

    Oh no doubt gold is going up. Blaming it on the "dems" however is beyond ridiculous.

    simply put, "dems" put the money in the hands that will spend it, the top 30 percent of the population put their stimulus money in a checking account

  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said "inflation is defined as an increase in the money supply"

    I agree with your analysis, but not with this definition, which I don't think you will find in any mainstream textbook. In some sense, the definition doesn't matter if the analysis (and therefore the conclusion) is correct. However, inflation is defined as an increase in prices. An increase in money supply is an increase in money supply.

    Both, by the way (inflation and money supply) can be quite hard to measure. Hence, the disputes we have seen in this board as to whether the CPI is a good measure of inflation. Money supply, of course, has become harder and harder to define and measure as the world has globalized, multi central banks have a material role in regulating money, and the financial services sector has become more complex. One might argue that anything with very high liquidity could be included in the money supply. (ie, if it's value can be measured and realized almost instantaneously). Thinking in this fashion, money has broadened over the past few decades.

    Higashiyama
  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021 4:37PM

    To be fair, inflation is defined as the action of inflating something or the condition of being inflated. Economically speaking there are different types of inflation.

    An increase in the money supply, monetary inflation, results in price inflation. Most people are misled by those creating all of the money into believing that inflation is nothing but rising prices. They do not want you and I to correctly understand that it is their monetary inflation that is causing us to pay higher prices. They have conditioned us to believe that inflation is nothing more than rising prices and that there is no one to blame.

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why did it plummet today? ;)

    BTW bc is on a roll....over 40k per coin. When will that bubble burst?

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 20,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OPA said:
    Why did it plummet today? ;)

    BTW bc is on a roll....over 40k per coin. When will that bubble burst?

    Doesn't look like anytime real soon. It seems like money is rolling out of PM's today and into the fast movers like Tesla and Bitcoin. Lots of new buyers

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021 2:36PM

    @OPA said:

    BTW bc is on a roll....over 40k per coin. When will that bubble burst?

    Since there are no real fundamentals to work with just maybe BTC has been and continues to be under valued. Maybe it is still finding its basis. We tend to always look at something quickly rising in price to be in a bubble because we have an established accurate reference point that is based on fundamentals. I don't believe we yet know BTC's reference point because we are not clear on any fundamentals.

    The only fundamentals I see possible are supply and demand. Recent prices tell me those have been grossly underestimated and are now becoming clearer. Further clarity could easily result in much higher prices. However, look for outside influence (SEC regulation?) to eventually counter those two fundamentals. At least the FED can't print more bitcoin.

    Appears the small fish use the initial $20K, $30K and now $40K price targets to take profits. Probably see it again at $50K. These psychological $10K price intervals might provide a key to entry points.

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • ADGADG Posts: 369 ✭✭✭

    Tesla, Bitcoin. Definition of a speculative bubble. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    https://www.hussmanfunds.com/comment/mc201220/

    "I just wish her well, frankly. I've met her numerous times over the years...I just wish her well, whatever it is." -- Donald J Trump on accused sex-trafficker Ghislane Maxwell.

    “It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control,” he said. “It’s going to be just fine.” Trump - 1/22/2020.

  • Hmmm....
    So I'm a newbie and don't have a lot of formal financial education. I'm just an average Joe (well, Josephine). I think that a few things are in play.

    1. The vaccine.
    2. Probably an increase in taxes (maybe by closing loopholes). We know our debt grew between 2010-2020 due to fiscal stimulus for a variety of reasons. It can't all be restored by cutting "social services" . They'll want to help get businesses back up so that people can get back to work & grow the tax base.
    3. Student loans... what happens if they are given loan forgiveness?

    Lots to think about. It will be an interesting 2021.

    Kelly

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:

    @OPA said:
    Why did it plummet today? ;)

    BTW bc is on a roll....over 40k per coin. When will that bubble burst?

    Doesn't look like anytime real soon. It seems like money is rolling out of PM's today and into the fast movers like Tesla and Bitcoin. Lots of new buyers

    m

    Didn't take long....The bubble may not have burst, but the balloon sprung a major leak ;)

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021 10:15AM

    Profit taking with BC. BC miners selling a bunch of their coins at a high, it's why they mine BC. The reasons the whales drove it up have not changed, they will return.

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    Profit taking with BC. BC miners selling a bunch of their coins at a high, it's why they mine BC. The reasons the whales drove it up have not changed, they will return.

    Not so sure about your definition of "profit taking." If any other market dropped by 25% like bc in a couple of days, it would be considered "The bubble has burst," B)

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021 12:00PM

    For an asset to decline to where it was six days ago is far from a bursting bubble.

    More like the six day bubble has burst. lol

    I would like to see another few days of decline while PP proceeds transfer to RH.

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2021 3:59PM

    What I learn at the gas station:

    History has taught me that if gasoline is moving up it is because oil is moving up.

    If oil is going up then consumer prices are going up. Oil is in one way or another a cost of most consumer goods and services, primarily transportation costs.

    If price inflation is going up then the dollar value is going down

    If the dollar is going down the alternatives to it are going up.

    Anyone else notice gasoline is on the move?

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah oil went up so gas went up. Tends to happen in unstable times which we are certainly in to say the least. Gold and gutter metal used to fare well in similar times but not so much anymore. Glad I have self sustainable land for my insurance. PEACE!

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    capitalism bubble?

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suppose if your counting in fake toilet paper or those 0 an 1 imaginary coins as wealth. I got a big screen down in my bunker. lol

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    I suppose if your counting in fake toilet paper or those 0 an 1 imaginary coins as wealth.

    Magic bean imaginary coins.

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @blitzdude said:
    I suppose if your counting in fake toilet paper or those 0 an 1 imaginary coins as wealth.

    Magic bean imaginary coins.

    You said it. Hope you make loads of toilet paper off them.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭

    beans > fiat toilet paper > gold > more beans > more fiat > more gold. Rinse, wash, repeat with the occasional diversion to some long term silver eagles.

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021 4:59AM

    dollar up, PMs down on plans for another $2T stimmy

    It created a bond yield spike that "predictably unleashed a jump in the dollar which coupled with the rise in real rates, hammered gold (which makes zero sense since the US deficit is about to explode, but that's just how mechanistic algos roll)."

    If I keep shrinking the value of the dollar, it makes it look like your stock portfolio is growing. But if you then take your stock portfolio and measure it in gold. . . - Peter Schiff

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