@jmlanzaf said:
If anyone can figure out how to work CAC into this thread, it'll really go nuclear!
CAC is working on a way to put a digital stickers of various colors on the "coins" to designate the coins mined early on (ancients) and those just recently mined. Then collectors can try to build registry sets of CACed Bitcoin.
@derryb said:
bitcoins are imaginary, what could go wrong?
I can literally put US dollars under my mattress. The only place I can put my bitcoin is in my imaginary wallet.
Are you suggesting US dollars are any less imaginary?
most definitely am. While we do not like the way dollars are managed or what the future holds for them, they are very much real. Try walking out of Walmart without turning them over to the cashier (whether in physical or electronic form) and you will be reminded just how real they are.
"The good old days when “JUSTICE” stood for something instead of “JUST US.”" - Martin Armstrong
One thing I don’t care for with Bitcoin is that it is as bad for the environment as mining. The amount of Bitcoin mined is more that offset by the cost of equipment and energy needed to compute the next viable hash. I’ve had friends who spent several years mining with ethereum to conclude it’s a losing proposition.
Here's my prediction for 2021 and I hope I'm wrong.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to undo all of the positives of the past four years.
Stock market will crash, gold will go through the roof, while bitcoin will be worthless.
Edit: I said all that based on the alleged current results, subject to change.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Will the IRS take bitcoin in payment of taxes?
Not yet but they have no problem confiscating it. But it is a good reminder to people that they do expect you to pay capital gains tax on any digital currency.
Here’s my prediction for 2021 and I hope I’m right.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to undo all the Negatives of the past four years.
Stock market will be 20% Higher than it was election eve night...
@cagcrisp said:
Here’s my prediction for 2021 and I hope I’m right.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to undo all the Negatives of the past four years.
Stock market will be 20% Higher than it was election eve night...
Yea, I'm pretty sure happier people will make the market increase - Hope your right too.
The value of the dollar is based on the full faith and credit of the US and the treasury- with their capacity to utilize the presses to print more money (if necessary).
Without taking this thread into the realm of political rhetoric- which it is dangerously close to now, one might want to consider values relative to ‘any’ entities ability to repay debts.
One measure of health has been the ratio of GDP to national debt.
Does Bitcoin have any such relationship?
Ultimately, it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
The dollar, Stocks, bonds, gold, Art, coins and Bitcoin are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given point in time.
It is impossible to predict where any might be in the future, but fun trying.
I have dabbled some in Forex trading and even cryptocurrency for fun and education.
That said, and not being an expert by any stretch, and not speaking specifically on Bitcoin or any other specific cryptocurrency, I believe MOST of them are indeed classic “bubbles” and will not exist in decades forward. A few very likely will likely survive, becoming useful as utility , and those may be worth something!
Diversification is the key.
Own some of everything- just in case!
And buy what you like, to hold in your hands- for now- for fun!
And for any in the group that haven’t read it.
Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, by Mackay
Is a must read!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I hate to admit it but Bitcoin is the new currency.
I'm a Gold bug dinosaur and personally would never buy Bitcoin as I prefer Gold and Silver.
I think Bitcoin will definitely outperform Gold, but there's no way I can buy that computer chip cr*p Bitcoin over the wholesome, pure, yellow metal that's been so valued for the last 5000 years.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
@CoinscratchFever said:
Here's my prediction for 2021 and I hope I'm wrong.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to undo all of the positives of the past four years.
Stock market will crash, gold will go through the roof, while bitcoin will be worthless.
My best guess is that Bitcoin won’t “win” as a global digital currency as they become mainstream. It has too many shortcomings, too much stigma, and no powerful defenders. My money is on the yuan, dollar, or a large multinational like Amazon or FB. Think Disney dollars or mining scrip for the 21st century.
@nwcoast said, One measure of health has been the ratio of GDP to national debt. @CoinJunkie When these numbers flip as all the hype says they will, would you still feel comfortable in the market? Or is it just that, hype?
@CoinscratchFever said: @nwcoast said, One measure of health has been the ratio of GDP to national debt. @CoinJunkie When these numbers flip as all the hype says they will, would you still feel comfortable in the market? Or is it just that, hype?
We're getting seriously OT here, but "hype" doesn't say anything. As long as the US policies on money supply and interest rates remain as they currently are, I will feel comfortable "in the market", whether that market is stocks or Bitcoin. That doesn't mean that there won't be corrections in either, but you said "crash", which is highly unlikely without an exogenous event (certainly not impossible). Bear in mind that we've had the worst health crisis in 100 years and the stock market just set records in spite of it. That should tell you all you need to know. I'm bullish on gold also, but it's not the best way to hedge the ongoing secular decline in the dollar, in my opinion.
Thanks I appreciate your input and crash may have been over the top doom and gloom. Like coins I am clearly no expert in the market either.
But I am proficient in basic math.
OT over and out.
@CoinscratchFever said: @nwcoast said, One measure of health has been the ratio of GDP to national debt. @CoinJunkie When these numbers flip as all the hype says they will, would you still feel comfortable in the market? Or is it just that, hype?
Did I say, or imply that I was comfortable in any particular market?
I’ve never been too “comfortable” in any particular market for very long.
And usually when I do feel that, I’ll get whipped down and humbled!
That’s the way it often works in my case.
Buy quality, and what you know and like, in ANYTHING- coins, or investments, and over time,
You’ll generally do alright , or perhaps even very well!
And hopefully enjoy owning and holding(custodial possession), the item along the way.
I think high quality and rare coins will do well over the long haul.
The best rare stamps are stronger than I might have expected, so that’s encouraging.
Bitcoin? Who knows......maybe, maybe not. I have some just in case.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
@privaterarecoincollector said:
Once bitcoin will become a mass product buyable from any bank account, its 100.000 a coin at least. And I believe this will happen in future.
What is your best guess as to when you think this will happen? Thanks
@privaterarecoincollector said:
Once bitcoin will become a mass product buyable from any bank account, its 100.000 a coin at least. And I believe this will happen in future.
What is your best guess as to when you think this will happen? Thanks
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
You guys need to think in terms what your children will do and not what you would do. My son will never enter any physical bank in his life. He will never pay with cash when he is grown up. He most probably will never drive a car himself. He will never read a physical book. and Im not even sure he will really learn how to properly write because they all use computers now in school.
@privaterarecoincollector said:
You guys need to think in terms what your children will do and not what you would do. My son will never enter any physical bank in his life. He will never pay with cash when he is grown up. He most probably will never drive a car himself. He will never read a physical book. and Im not even sure he will really learn how to properly write because they all use computers now in school.
It may feel that way but it isn't quite that way. My brother is a teacher and I can tell you they still have to use real books at times and children still write things. Those things you mention may happen one day but there's no way to predict when any of those would be the norm. People can barely predict what will happen tomorrow let alone years from now.
@TurtleCat said:
Who knows? Bitcoin could easily crash, too. And if the federal government institutes a digital currency they could easily cause a crash by making it the only legal digital tender here. I tend to think of gold as being a store of value that resists inflation. Bitcoin is more of an artificial construct and requires a lot more belief than the federal reserve. It’s not backed up by even the good faith of a government.
The government could also decide gold is illegal....again.
@TurtleCat said:
Who knows? Bitcoin could easily crash, too. And if the federal government institutes a digital currency they could easily cause a crash by making it the only legal digital tender here. I tend to think of gold as being a store of value that resists inflation. Bitcoin is more of an artificial construct and requires a lot more belief than the federal reserve. It’s not backed up by even the good faith of a government.
The government could also decide gold is illegal....again.
True, although I think they would have a hard time with doing that this time. Especially since they can make a profit selling gold.
@scubafuel said:
My best guess is that Bitcoin won’t “win” as a global digital currency...no powerful defenders. My money is on the yuan, dollar...
IMO this is pretty close to the right answer. Governments want to assert control over currency - it's a fundamental aspect of their power...what powerful nation would defend Bitcoin over its' own currency?
Also - Im still not sure what happens if someone is able to _effectively _take down the internet for any period of time (ie I think cash and coin arent going completely away)
@privaterarecoincollector said:
You guys need to think in terms what your children will do and not what you would do. My son will never enter any physical bank in his life. He will never pay with cash when he is grown up. He most probably will never drive a car himself. He will never read a physical book. and Im not even sure he will really learn how to properly write because they all use computers now in school.
I say and mean that light heartedly because where I live there are still thousands of banks and millions of people driving their own cars. Although half of our congregation reads scriptures from their phone which slightly annoys our old school preacher, LOL.
Not only is it easy to lose, another problem is it's hard to find!
Imagine being able to find bitcoin hoards?
With the passwords and encryption it could take millennia to crack. If they used a random 15 character password it’s as good as unretreiveable
It depends upon the hashing and key size. Compute power has grown enormously over the years. It’s really a moving target. Even 256 byte algorithms are on the verge right now of being achievable with concerted effort. It’s why 512 byte encryption and other methodologies like encryption done with elliptical curves is being done now.
Notice they tell you nothing about how it was encrypted or hashed or bit length. It’s very misleading. Try having a SHA1 password that’s 56 characters randomized. Oh wait, a rainbow table exists already.
I think that Bitcoin has a problem in the future where the Blockchain is either too "easy", or too "hard". If quantum computing keeps making progress, all of those qbits will be able to "break" and spoof the Blockchain. Otherwise, the blockchain keeps growing with every transaction, and may overtake a reasonable way to compute it for anyone other than large corps and nation states.
Again, not my specialty, so I could be wrong about this.
Just bought these with btc profits with payment in btc so to me they're free. Always best to diversify across sectors regardless and crashes can occur both to the downside and upside, study of history is important. Taxman the real devil.
@DrDarryl said:
As of this writing BTC is $27,646.52 USD.
Sounds like a bubble that will eventually pop. Are you confident that you can cash out before the inevitable collapse happens?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Sounds like a bubble that will eventually pop. Are you confident that you can cash out before the inevitable collapse happens?
Miniscule part of my investment portfolio. Issue is that the price fluctuates 24/7, BTC was over 28K earlier this morning.
Which is the biggest problem with it being an "alternative currency". Until the price stops fluctuating dramatically, I would not want to be using it for commerce.
I've saved up my down payment. No, I don't have it. Yes, I've got it and then some. No, I better rent. Oops, I can't afford the rent.
@PerryHall said:
Sounds like a bubble that will eventually pop. Are you confident that you can cash out before the inevitable collapse happens?
Miniscule part of my investment portfolio. Issue is that the price fluctuates 24/7, BTC was over 28K earlier this morning.
Which is the biggest problem with it being an "alternative currency". Until the price stops fluctuating dramatically, I would not want to be using it for commerce.
I've saved up my down payment. No, I don't have it. Yes, I've got it and then some. No, I better rent. Oops, I can't afford the rent.
It's more: I don't have a down payment, wait I do, cash out!
@PerryHall said:
Sounds like a bubble that will eventually pop. Are you confident that you can cash out before the inevitable collapse happens?
Miniscule part of my investment portfolio. Issue is that the price fluctuates 24/7, BTC was over 28K earlier this morning.
Which is the biggest problem with it being an "alternative currency". Until the price stops fluctuating dramatically, I would not want to be using it for commerce.
I've saved up my down payment. No, I don't have it. Yes, I've got it and then some. No, I better rent. Oops, I can't afford the rent.
It's more: I don't have a down payment, wait I do, cash out!
Yes, except that isn't a vehicle for commerce, that's a vehicle for speculation. If the only way to use it for commerce is to quickly convert it into something more stable...
@PerryHall said:
Sounds like a bubble that will eventually pop. Are you confident that you can cash out before the inevitable collapse happens?
Miniscule part of my investment portfolio. Issue is that the price fluctuates 24/7, BTC was over 28K earlier this morning.
Which is the biggest problem with it being an "alternative currency". Until the price stops fluctuating dramatically, I would not want to be using it for commerce.
I've saved up my down payment. No, I don't have it. Yes, I've got it and then some. No, I better rent. Oops, I can't afford the rent.
It's more: I don't have a down payment, wait I do, cash out!
Yes, except that isn't a vehicle for commerce, that's a vehicle for speculation. If the only way to use it for commerce is to quickly convert it into something more stable...
Comments
CAC is working on a way to put a digital stickers of various colors on the "coins" to designate the coins mined early on (ancients) and those just recently mined. Then collectors can try to build registry sets of CACed Bitcoin.
How is that?
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 37 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
most definitely am. While we do not like the way dollars are managed or what the future holds for them, they are very much real. Try walking out of Walmart without turning them over to the cashier (whether in physical or electronic form) and you will be reminded just how real they are.
"The good old days when “JUSTICE” stood for something instead of “JUST US.”" - Martin Armstrong
One thing I don’t care for with Bitcoin is that it is as bad for the environment as mining. The amount of Bitcoin mined is more that offset by the cost of equipment and energy needed to compute the next viable hash. I’ve had friends who spent several years mining with ethereum to conclude it’s a losing proposition.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Here's my prediction for 2021 and I hope I'm wrong.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to undo all of the positives of the past four years.
Stock market will crash, gold will go through the roof, while bitcoin will be worthless.
Edit: I said all that based on the alleged current results, subject to change.
Will the IRS take bitcoin in payment of taxes?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Not yet but they have no problem confiscating it. But it is a good reminder to people that they do expect you to pay capital gains tax on any digital currency.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Sadly bitcoin
Here’s my prediction for 2021 and I hope I’m right.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to undo all the Negatives of the past four years.
Stock market will be 20% Higher than it was election eve night...
Yea, I'm pretty sure happier people will make the market increase - Hope your right too.
does CAC accept BC?
"The good old days when “JUSTICE” stood for something instead of “JUST US.”" - Martin Armstrong
The value of the dollar is based on the full faith and credit of the US and the treasury- with their capacity to utilize the presses to print more money (if necessary).
Without taking this thread into the realm of political rhetoric- which it is dangerously close to now, one might want to consider values relative to ‘any’ entities ability to repay debts.
One measure of health has been the ratio of GDP to national debt.
Does Bitcoin have any such relationship?
Ultimately, it is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
The dollar, Stocks, bonds, gold, Art, coins and Bitcoin are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given point in time.
It is impossible to predict where any might be in the future, but fun trying.
I have dabbled some in Forex trading and even cryptocurrency for fun and education.
That said, and not being an expert by any stretch, and not speaking specifically on Bitcoin or any other specific cryptocurrency, I believe MOST of them are indeed classic “bubbles” and will not exist in decades forward. A few very likely will likely survive, becoming useful as utility , and those may be worth something!
Diversification is the key.
Own some of everything- just in case!
And buy what you like, to hold in your hands- for now- for fun!
And for any in the group that haven’t read it.
Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, by Mackay
Is a must read!
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I hate to admit it but Bitcoin is the new currency.
I'm a Gold bug dinosaur and personally would never buy Bitcoin as I prefer Gold and Silver.
I think Bitcoin will definitely outperform Gold, but there's no way I can buy that computer chip cr*p Bitcoin over the wholesome, pure, yellow metal that's been so valued for the last 5000 years.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Congratulations, you are!
Apples and oranges
My best guess is that Bitcoin won’t “win” as a global digital currency as they become mainstream. It has too many shortcomings, too much stigma, and no powerful defenders. My money is on the yuan, dollar, or a large multinational like Amazon or FB. Think Disney dollars or mining scrip for the 21st century.
@nwcoast said, One measure of health has been the ratio of GDP to national debt.
@CoinJunkie When these numbers flip as all the hype says they will, would you still feel comfortable in the market? Or is it just that, hype?
We're getting seriously OT here, but "hype" doesn't say anything. As long as the US policies on money supply and interest rates remain as they currently are, I will feel comfortable "in the market", whether that market is stocks or Bitcoin. That doesn't mean that there won't be corrections in either, but you said "crash", which is highly unlikely without an exogenous event (certainly not impossible). Bear in mind that we've had the worst health crisis in 100 years and the stock market just set records in spite of it. That should tell you all you need to know. I'm bullish on gold also, but it's not the best way to hedge the ongoing secular decline in the dollar, in my opinion.
Thanks I appreciate your input and crash may have been over the top doom and gloom. Like coins I am clearly no expert in the market either.
But I am proficient in basic math.
OT over and out.
Did I say, or imply that I was comfortable in any particular market?
I’ve never been too “comfortable” in any particular market for very long.
And usually when I do feel that, I’ll get whipped down and humbled!
That’s the way it often works in my case.
Buy quality, and what you know and like, in ANYTHING- coins, or investments, and over time,
You’ll generally do alright , or perhaps even very well!
And hopefully enjoy owning and holding(custodial possession), the item along the way.
I think high quality and rare coins will do well over the long haul.
The best rare stamps are stronger than I might have expected, so that’s encouraging.
Bitcoin? Who knows......maybe, maybe not. I have some just in case.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Once bitcoin will become a mass product buyable from any bank account, its 100.000 a coin at least. And I believe this will happen in future.
What is your best guess as to when you think this will happen? Thanks
@nwcoast That question was for Coin Junkie but anyways sound advice. Thanks!
2022
Sorta like Fred and his Stella.
Except my coin was 100% ” lost”
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
You guys need to think in terms what your children will do and not what you would do. My son will never enter any physical bank in his life. He will never pay with cash when he is grown up. He most probably will never drive a car himself. He will never read a physical book. and Im not even sure he will really learn how to properly write because they all use computers now in school.
It may feel that way but it isn't quite that way. My brother is a teacher and I can tell you they still have to use real books at times and children still write things. Those things you mention may happen one day but there's no way to predict when any of those would be the norm. People can barely predict what will happen tomorrow let alone years from now.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Not only is it easy to lose, another problem is it's hard to find!
Imagine being able to find bitcoin hoards?
The government could also decide gold is illegal....again.
What's more likely:
True, although I think they would have a hard time with doing that this time. Especially since they can make a profit selling gold.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
IMO this is pretty close to the right answer. Governments want to assert control over currency - it's a fundamental aspect of their power...what powerful nation would defend Bitcoin over its' own currency?
Also - Im still not sure what happens if someone is able to _effectively _take down the internet for any period of time (ie I think cash and coin arent going completely away)
That’s just sad! When will your son be born?
I say and mean that light heartedly because where I live there are still thousands of banks and millions of people driving their own cars. Although half of our congregation reads scriptures from their phone which slightly annoys our old school preacher, LOL.
With the passwords and encryption it could take millennia to crack. If they used a random 15 character password it’s as good as unretreiveable
It depends upon the hashing and key size. Compute power has grown enormously over the years. It’s really a moving target. Even 256 byte algorithms are on the verge right now of being achievable with concerted effort. It’s why 512 byte encryption and other methodologies like encryption done with elliptical curves is being done now.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
We'll see what happens when a major bitcoin funded criminal enterprise is exposed what the Gov will do.
Notice they tell you nothing about how it was encrypted or hashed or bit length. It’s very misleading. Try having a SHA1 password that’s 56 characters randomized. Oh wait, a rainbow table exists already.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I think that Bitcoin has a problem in the future where the Blockchain is either too "easy", or too "hard". If quantum computing keeps making progress, all of those qbits will be able to "break" and spoof the Blockchain. Otherwise, the blockchain keeps growing with every transaction, and may overtake a reasonable way to compute it for anyone other than large corps and nation states.
Again, not my specialty, so I could be wrong about this.
Same thing that do with a criminal enterprise funded any other way.
What do they do with a bullion funded enterprise?
Aren't large or even moderately large bullion purchases/sales traceable?
Just bought these with btc profits with payment in btc so to me they're free. Always best to diversify across sectors regardless and crashes can occur both to the downside and upside, study of history is important. Taxman the real devil.
As of this writing BTC is $27,646.52 USD.
Sounds like a bubble that will eventually pop. Are you confident that you can cash out before the inevitable collapse happens?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Miniscule part of my investment portfolio. Issue is that the price fluctuates 24/7, BTC was over 28K earlier this morning.
Which is the biggest problem with it being an "alternative currency". Until the price stops fluctuating dramatically, I would not want to be using it for commerce.
I've saved up my down payment. No, I don't have it. Yes, I've got it and then some. No, I better rent. Oops, I can't afford the rent.
It's more: I don't have a down payment, wait I do, cash out!
Yes, except that isn't a vehicle for commerce, that's a vehicle for speculation. If the only way to use it for commerce is to quickly convert it into something more stable...
It's a bit like gold that way.
I can't even buy coins from Heritage with gold.