Gold proof coin vs Bitcoin
Gazes
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In 5 years or 10 years---what will be worth more. A 1899 $10 Proof PCGS 63 CAM CAC (about 40 known to exist) or One Bitcoin? The coin is a bit random but is worth about $19,000 which is about the same price of one bitcoin.
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Who knows? Bitcoin could easily crash, too. And if the federal government institutes a digital currency they could easily cause a crash by making it the only legal digital tender here. I tend to think of gold as being a store of value that resists inflation. Bitcoin is more of an artificial construct and requires a lot more belief than the federal reserve. It’s not backed up by even the good faith of a government.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Bitcoin in my opinion, with more and more adoption including PayPal.
This is incredibly random and not really answerable.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
If we limit our threads to questions with only objective answers it would make for a boring forum. I was hoping to hear from forum members who may have strong opinions, expertise or interesting thoughts.
Random? Not sure how discussing how our hobby will fare against other types of investments or hobbies is so shockingly random but thanks for your comment.
The eagle is more likely to be close to the same value. Bitcoin is liable to be +1000% or -95%. I'd rather have the eagle, but if I were completely gambling with a small portion of my investment portfolio, I'd go the other way. Of course I'd put the money for each in a separate bucket.
I agree the pay pal development seems to be very signficant. It seems to make it very easy for tens of millions to buy bitcoin easily. It is my understanding that next year paypal will also let you use the bitcoin rather than just buy and sell.
I also think bitcoin may bring attention to assets like rare coins. They share many of the same positive traits---both are finite and you cant mint more, both have a level of privacy and both seem to have a distrust in conventional currency that has no limits on printing more money.
I’m a fan of digital currency whenever the Fed approve of a digital dollar. Until then I’ll refrain from Bitcoin...
Pass on both
Are you sure? You want the govt to have complete control and tracking of all your money? I dont
Better shot at craps.
I have No problem with digital currency...
Better not forget your password.
There's always "password recovery"
Any physical asset (like coins) cannot really be compared to money, digital or otherwise. The whole point in having "money" is to prevent a barter system and create greater marketplace liquidity.
THIS!
Look what happened to Leonard on The Big Bang Theory with his bitcoins
LOL.
Who's to say he wouldn't have misplaced his coin collection also.
one bitcoin. Im sure about this.
In 10 years there will be much more buyers for bitcoin than today while supply is still quite limited.
Im actually not bullish on rare coins I must say. I think they are all a bad investment over the next 10 years. They might just keep their value or increase a bit while everything else in and around tech is growing a lot and money will be worth a lot less too. Just go and compound 20% per year over ten years and thats a low annual growth for tech companies. Its still nice to have some of the nice coins because they are beautiful but in terms of putting your money its baaaaad.
The supply of bitcoin is essentially unlimited because they divide it into smaller and smaller pieces. A single bitcoin divided into 1,000,000,000,000,000 pieces is more than enough for everyone to have some.
no, the value stays the same, 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin. You can buy 0.00000001 pc of one but that doesnt matter, its good actually. Its like saying Dollar will be weak because you can buy cents, no ?
bitcoins are imaginary, what could go wrong?
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
No. The value proposition is different. The value may go up (or down) as people want it or use it. But the supply isn't limited in the sense that you can always make more (pieces) by moving the decimal place over. It may create a sort of inflation in price as a result - a bitcent is now what a bitcoin used to be. You used to get full bitcoins when mining. You now get fractional bitcoins. They essentially made more available by dividing it. It's equivalent to adding zeroes to the currency. What was once 1 bitcoin is now 1 million bitcoin bits.
In the long run, this is actually a good thing for its use. Limited supply makes it useless in commerce. Imagine if you had 100 $ bills that couldn't be divided. Would that give you a valuable commodity? Maybe - as a collectible. But it wouldn't give you anything utilitarian because there would only ever be 100 people in possession of one which would make commerce impossible.
P.S. If the value stayed the same, the price in dollars wouldn't have moved.
I'm old school. I'd rather have tulip bulbs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
LOL.
I know you're kidding. But rare coins are closer to tulip bulbs than they are to "money".
Tulip bulbs are considered the first speculative bubble. I hardly think of rare coins as a speculative bubble. The tulip craze really lasted a year around 1636-37. Our hobby has stood the test of time.
In 1989, coins did exactly what tulip bulbs did in 1636. The point was that tulip bulbs were/are a collectible with a price driven by market sentiment. Coins are also collectibles driven by market sentiment. Neither one of them is "money" (a medium of exchange).
The fact that coins aren't currently in a bubble is no different than the fact that tulip bulbs aren't currently in a bubble.
Silver bubble
Your main comparison is that tulips were a collectible and so are coins. So why not compare coins to other collectables like Art? You seem to only want to compare them to the first speculative bubble in history. Somewhat of a negative bias towards coins. The fact that you point to 1989 saying coins performed like tulips is telling. That was 31 years ago and there is still a solid base of collectors with millions of dollars of sales year after year with the most coveted coins still breaking records. That in of itself shows that the rare coin market is nothing like the "tulip craze"
That's not quite true. They don't have a physical entity, but the same is true of your Apple stock. Bitcoins represent financial transactions. Mining of bitcoin amounted to payment for facilitating transactions. In some sense, they are more real than US $s...only they don't have an army to back them up.
Tulip bulbs were first mentioned by another poster and jmlanzaf replied:
“I know you're kidding. But rare coins are closer to tulip bulbs than they are to "money".
Regardless of how the rare coin market has done, it would be hard to argue that he was incorrect.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Gazes. Love ya. Happy Thanksgiving.
I'm not the one who mentioned tulip bulbs. @PerryHall did.
I would gladly compare coins to art, vintage cars, baseball cards or anything else. I didn't even mention the bubble.
You also forget that tulip bulbs sold for hundreds of years before the bubble and hundreds of years after the bubble. Virtually everything that's value is created by free market forces goes through bubbles, which includes even stocks and "money", albeit in more complicated ways.
I'm not relying on the "bubble" aspect. Even this very minute, in 2020, coins of 2020 are more like tulip bulbs of 2020 than they are "money". Both are physical collectibles that are not suited as "media of exchange" which is what "money" purports to be. If you want to "spend" your coins or your tulip bulbs, you first have to convert them to money.
By the way, I'm not trying to suggest bitcoin is preferable to rare coins. Bitcoin is also, currently, more collectible than medium of exchange.
Cryptocurrencies state it as a virtue that they are not controlled by governmental agencies. But that somewhat plays on people's paranoia about government.
US$'s could go into a bubble, but the FED has the ability to go in and stabilize dollar prices. That is actually an advantage, not a disadvantage, which makes $s less prone to enter accidental bubbles.
I'm not sure what the future of cryptocurrencies will be. I think they remain somewhat speculative. If they were to ever be a competing form of money, they would first have to stop fluctuating in price so dramatically. Imagine you've saved up your salary, which is paid in bitcoins, so that you can buy the $100 widget you need. While you are walking to the store to buy the widget, the bitcoin drops 10% in value. You can no longer buy your widget. [Note the price drop of 10% in bitcoin today.]
We need our money, of whatever type, to be stable over the time frame in which you will use it.
Stocks are also a horrible way to get your paycheck. Investing in stocks over a 10 or 20 or 30 year time frame makes sense. You would never want to put short term money in stocks for anything but pure speculation. If you got paid in Apple stock, for example, you couldn't know for sure whether you could pay your mortgage next week because you couldn't know what the value of the stock would be next week.
I can by tulip bulbs today around 6/$10, many people give them away. If I’m investing in something I don’t want it to go to almost zero (I have penny stocks for that 😉)
My Apple stock does have a physical entity. It entitles me to a legal claim of a physical Apple Inc. asset. This is referred to as its "book value."
I can literally put US dollars under my mattress. The only place I can put my bitcoin is in my imaginary wallet.
The future of cryptos will be determined by government regulation that will be influenced by the threat cryptos pose over dollars (like gold). Now that paypal and Robinhood have made select cryptos a currency (easy to trade dollars for them), their threat just increased exponentially. The more cryptos become a dollar alternative the more likely they will be reeled in.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Are you suggesting US dollars are any less imaginary?
Might (big disclaimer) be a buying opportunity in Bitcoin and several other crypto currency’s. They seem to have dropped 12-30% overnight from their recent highs. They were making a run at their all time highs prior to this correction.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
If bitcoins were made of real GOLD and not 1's & 0's I would choose the Bit, otherwise I'll take the coin.
PM Sent
The thing you put under your mattress isn't a "dollar", it's a piece of paper that says "dollar". The stock gives you a legal claim but not physical possession. All of these things rely a lot more on the faith and credit of the government than people want to acknowledge.
The government can make your mattress worth nothing with the stroke of a pen. And, unfortunately, it can also remove your legal claim with the stroke of a pen. In fact, this was done to GM stock holders in the government bailout.
I've got literally trillions of German marks that are "real" but valueless. LOL
The supply of bitcoin is essentially unlimited because they divide it into smaller and smaller pieces. A single bitcoin divided into 1,000,000,000,000,000 pieces is more than enough for everyone to have some.
Isn't that the same exact argument which says that there isn't enough gold in the world to be used as money? The difference being that gold is actually real and isn't susceptible to an internet kill switch.
I knew it would happen.
Here's a...funny?...story:
I got hacked on Monday. The hacker transferred $5000 from my checking account to my crypto wallet (Ethereum), they then failed to withdraw $500 due to MFA. [They also tried to buy gift cards using PayPal and Amazon.]
I immediately notified the wallet company. For some reason, still unexplained, they couldn't/wouldn't just reverse the transaction. At the time, $5000 in ETH had gone up $100 which would have covered there fees while also reimbursing me my $5000. Instead, they froze everything. So, now the ETH is down $850 and I can't find anyone to talk to (holiday) to figure out what is going on since their "specialist" took over.
[BTW, lest anyone take this as a criticism of cryptos, my old-fashioned bank would be no better. Their cyber security is worse and they wouldn't necessarily cover an illicit withdrawal.]
If anyone can figure out how to work CAC into this thread, it'll really go nuclear!
BC does not mean bitcoin.
This:
550 BC
Gold has always played an important role in the international monetary system. Gold coins were first struck on the order of King Croesus of Lydia (an area that is now part of Turkey), around 550 BC. They circulated as currency in many countries before the introduction of paper money.
I will gladly take all of your unreal, worthless currency, please pm me for address.