For all of you "market experts", look at all the details commems Stacks just sold in their November internet auction INCLUDING an Arkansas (PCGS cleaned) for $80.
I don't like the OP's cleaned coin nor the one at Stacks! I'd much rather purchase the $480 Arkansas coin just below the cleaned coin at Stacks.
I totally agree. But the original question was whether $80 is a fair price. All comps point to that being a reasonable price.
@daltex said:
Not to go off topic or anything, but I've noticed that PCGS doesn't use numerical grades with details coins. I assume that's so that people don't think that an Unc. Details coin should be worth the same as an MS 60. Does ANACS ever use a numerical grade that is above the minimum for the verbal grade? That is, is there such a thing as an AU 58 Details ANACS holder?
Yes, for example, I’ve seen AU53, AU55 and AU58 details grade coins.
It is interesting that they will use 53 or 55 but not 61 or 62. I wonder why.
That distinction makes sense to me. Generally, I think it’s much easier to determine the condition (based upon wear) of a problem circulated coin, than the condition (to a single grading point) of a problem mint state coin, were it not for the problem.
I'm not saying they have to use all the UNC grades. I'm not saying they should use them all the time. But why not 60/63/65 or something like that, when warranted? A cleaned coin with hairlines is probably never more than a 60. But if I had a gem coin with significant rim damage, wouldn't it make sense to call it 65 details?
I really shouldn't comment, but I watched this thread disintegrate, and some posters showed their colors.
But I saw something a few minutes ago, and decided I would wade in just in case @Matthew17 is still here
Although 80. may not have been a bad deal, there is so much more for so close to the same amount it begs a reconsideration.
For an extra 15. bucks there's one on the BST right now in 63, and it's a good looker for a 63 from what I can tell.
More than anything, I think that is what a lot of the comments were about before this turned into a dumpster fire.
A long time ago a friend told me to pick a grade range that fit my budget, and then go find the nicest coin I could find for that range. Don't worry about buying Gem's if your budget is Choice AU ... stick to the range and the budget, but find the nicest coin you can there.
Those words ring true at every level in this hobby.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
@pursuitofliberty said:
I really shouldn't comment, but I watched this thread disintegrate, and some posters showed their colors.
But I saw something a few minutes ago, and decided I would wade in just in case @Matthew17 is still here
Although 80. may not have been a bad deal, there is so much more for so close to the same amount it begs a reconsideration.
For an extra 15. bucks there's one on the BST right now in 63, and it's a good looker for a 63 from what I can tell.
More than anything, I think that is what a lot of the comments were about before this turned into a dumpster fire.
A long time ago a friend told me to pick a grade range that fit my budget, and then go find the nicest coin I could find for that range. Don't worry about buying Gem's if your budget is Choice AU ... stick to the range and the budget, but find the nicest coin you can there.
Those words ring true at every level in this hobby.
@daltex said:
Not to go off topic or anything, but I've noticed that PCGS doesn't use numerical grades with details coins. I assume that's so that people don't think that an Unc. Details coin should be worth the same as an MS 60. Does ANACS ever use a numerical grade that is above the minimum for the verbal grade? That is, is there such a thing as an AU 58 Details ANACS holder?
Yes, for example, I’ve seen AU53, AU55 and AU58 details grade coins.
It is interesting that they will use 53 or 55 but not 61 or 62. I wonder why.
That distinction makes sense to me. Generally, I think it’s much easier to determine the condition (based upon wear) of a problem circulated coin, than the condition (to a single grading point) of a problem mint state coin, were it not for the problem.
I'm not saying they have to use all the UNC grades. I'm not saying they should use them all the time. But why not 60/63/65 or something like that, when warranted? A cleaned coin with hairlines is probably never more than a 60. But if I had a gem coin with significant rim damage, wouldn't it make sense to call it 65 details?
Yes, in that particular case, it would make sense, but there are probably many others where it wouldn’t. So I’m fine with the way it’s currently done.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
$80 is on the high side but not terrible. There has been a lot of debate here for basically $20 worth of difference in hypothetical pricing...
Please @Matthew17 don’t feel like you can’t keep posting on the forum. Stick around! There are a lot of cantankerous folks in these parts ... sarcasm ... naysayers... hard facts ... brutal honesty and tough love ... and also on average a way higher coin IQ than you’ll find elsewhere ...so just keep on keeping on ... enjoy your coins! 👍🏻⭐️
This forum needs something more controversial/interesting to debate about. This thread had some of the real time instant chat room style input like there used to be back in the day, but it’s just about a newbies coin purchase. I remember it being like that, but about bigger more exciting topics where I couldn’t wait to see what would happen next.
@Mr_Spud said:
This forum needs something more controversial/interesting to debate about. This thread had some of the real time instant chat room style input like there used to be back in the day, but it’s just about a newbies coin purchase. I remember it being like that, but about bigger more exciting topics where I couldn’t wait to see what would happen next.
A lot of bannings have eliminated some of the more vocal people.
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
Since you wanted a direct response, do you really think this is the best way to deal with a new collector?
$80 is not "overpaid". A similar coin sold on eBay for $85 and Stack's sold one this week for $80. That is a fair retail price.
This is NOT a forum of high-end collectors. It is a PCGS forum dedicated to "U.S. Coins" not "High end U.S. coins". How many CRH threads does this "high-end" forum have going? How many threads dedicated to Mint products?
Being constructive isn't the same as coddling. You don't have to swoon over his purchase to suggest that it was a fair price but he could have done better (as some posters did).
You don't get the "truth" here. You get opinions. And whether "truth" or "opinion", it doesn't have to be delivered with such attitude.
If you can buy an MS63 for $20 more, $80 is an overpayment for a cleaned one. The market just has not adjusted to that reality yet. Give it a few years. Literally, come back and tag this post in 3 years. No way they are still worth $80 by that point unless spot is north of $50 or something.
Relative to the other coin forums (have you visited them??) this is a very high-end forum in terms of the posters, the knowledge shared, and the coins. Sure, we have our derps here, but they embrace it and don't get abrasive when people don't give them the affirmation they want. You need a thick skin to post here. For every chewed up parking lot zincoln and machine doubled modern pocket change that gets posted here, there are half a dozen high end ($500+) coins posted. On most other forums, that ratio is closer to 1:2 than 1:6.
He already got the constructive criticism. It did not work. He clearly did not come here to learn, but for affirmation, and that is NOT the correct mindset to have when posting a badly cleaned commemorative half. Sometimes people need to be told a blunt opinion, not sugarcoated BS, so I gave it to him.
You say attitude, I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I can tell you have not set foot into the real world yet, and that you are living the imaginary world of academia. Do yourself a favor and don't leave, the real world is far harsher, and folks like yourself just don't last.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
Since you wanted a direct response, do you really think this is the best way to deal with a new collector?
$80 is not "overpaid". A similar coin sold on eBay for $85 and Stack's sold one this week for $80. That is a fair retail price.
This is NOT a forum of high-end collectors. It is a PCGS forum dedicated to "U.S. Coins" not "High end U.S. coins". How many CRH threads does this "high-end" forum have going? How many threads dedicated to Mint products?
Being constructive isn't the same as coddling. You don't have to swoon over his purchase to suggest that it was a fair price but he could have done better (as some posters did).
You don't get the "truth" here. You get opinions. And whether "truth" or "opinion", it doesn't have to be delivered with such attitude.
If you can buy an MS63 for $20 more, $80 is an overpayment for a cleaned one. The market just has not adjusted to that reality yet. Give it a few years. Literally, come back and tag this post in 3 years. No way they are still worth $80 by that point unless spot is north of $50 or something.
Relative to the other coin forums (have you visited them??) this is a very high-end forum in terms of the posters, the knowledge shared, and the coins. Sure, we have our derps here, but they embrace it and don't get abrasive when people don't give them the affirmation they want. You need a thick skin to post here. For every chewed up parking lot zincoln and machine doubled modern pocket change that gets posted here, there are half a dozen high end ($500+) coins posted. On most other forums, that ratio is closer to 1:2 than 1:6.
He already got the constructive criticism. It did not work. He clearly did not come here to learn, but for affirmation, and that is NOT the correct mindset to have when posting a badly cleaned commemorative half. Sometimes people need to be told a blunt opinion, not sugarcoated BS, so I gave it to him.
You say attitude, I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I can tell you have not set foot into the real world yet, and that you are living the imaginary world of academia. Do yourself a favor and don't leave, the real world is far harsher, and folks like yourself just don't last.
If Unc. details, cleaned examples are selling in the $80 range, that's their current market value, regardless of whether MS63's are only $20 more. Many straight graded unc. commems have very narrow price spreads, even between more than two contiguous grades in some cases.
The market has already had plenty of time to adjust.
What the coins might be worth in three years says nothing about their current value. Many coins might, and in fact, will be worth less (or more) at a future time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
Since you wanted a direct response, do you really think this is the best way to deal with a new collector?
$80 is not "overpaid". A similar coin sold on eBay for $85 and Stack's sold one this week for $80. That is a fair retail price.
This is NOT a forum of high-end collectors. It is a PCGS forum dedicated to "U.S. Coins" not "High end U.S. coins". How many CRH threads does this "high-end" forum have going? How many threads dedicated to Mint products?
Being constructive isn't the same as coddling. You don't have to swoon over his purchase to suggest that it was a fair price but he could have done better (as some posters did).
You don't get the "truth" here. You get opinions. And whether "truth" or "opinion", it doesn't have to be delivered with such attitude.
If you can buy an MS63 for $20 more, $80 is an overpayment for a cleaned one. The market just has not adjusted to that reality yet. Give it a few years. Literally, come back and tag this post in 3 years. No way they are still worth $80 by that point unless spot is north of $50 or something.
Relative to the other coin forums (have you visited them??) this is a very high-end forum in terms of the posters, the knowledge shared, and the coins. Sure, we have our derps here, but they embrace it and don't get abrasive when people don't give them the affirmation they want. You need a thick skin to post here. For every chewed up parking lot zincoln and machine doubled modern pocket change that gets posted here, there are half a dozen high end ($500+) coins posted. On most other forums, that ratio is closer to 1:2 than 1:6.
He already got the constructive criticism. It did not work. He clearly did not come here to learn, but for affirmation, and that is NOT the correct mindset to have when posting a badly cleaned commemorative half. Sometimes people need to be told a blunt opinion, not sugarcoated BS, so I gave it to him.
You say attitude, I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I can tell you have not set foot into the real world yet, and that you are living the imaginary world of academia. Do yourself a favor and don't leave, the real world is far harsher, and folks like yourself just don't last.
LMAO. I've worked for industry as well as Academia. I've been in the "real world". Both "worlds" believe in collegiality as a positive trait among employees. If you talked to your colleagues in the "real world" the way you talk to the newbies on this forum, they would fire you.
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
"Forum of high end collectors" Really? I dont remember seeing that in the PCGS guidelines. Am i in the wrong place?
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
Since you wanted a direct response, do you really think this is the best way to deal with a new collector?
$80 is not "overpaid". A similar coin sold on eBay for $85 and Stack's sold one this week for $80. That is a fair retail price.
This is NOT a forum of high-end collectors. It is a PCGS forum dedicated to "U.S. Coins" not "High end U.S. coins". How many CRH threads does this "high-end" forum have going? How many threads dedicated to Mint products?
Being constructive isn't the same as coddling. You don't have to swoon over his purchase to suggest that it was a fair price but he could have done better (as some posters did).
You don't get the "truth" here. You get opinions. And whether "truth" or "opinion", it doesn't have to be delivered with such attitude.
If you can buy an MS63 for $20 more, $80 is an overpayment for a cleaned one. The market just has not adjusted to that reality yet. Give it a few years. Literally, come back and tag this post in 3 years. No way they are still worth $80 by that point unless spot is north of $50 or something.
Relative to the other coin forums (have you visited them??) this is a very high-end forum in terms of the posters, the knowledge shared, and the coins. Sure, we have our derps here, but they embrace it and don't get abrasive when people don't give them the affirmation they want. You need a thick skin to post here. For every chewed up parking lot zincoln and machine doubled modern pocket change that gets posted here, there are half a dozen high end ($500+) coins posted. On most other forums, that ratio is closer to 1:2 than 1:6.
He already got the constructive criticism. It did not work. He clearly did not come here to learn, but for affirmation, and that is NOT the correct mindset to have when posting a badly cleaned commemorative half. Sometimes people need to be told a blunt opinion, not sugarcoated BS, so I gave it to him.
You say attitude, I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I can tell you have not set foot into the real world yet, and that you are living the imaginary world of academia. Do yourself a favor and don't leave, the real world is far harsher, and folks like yourself just don't last.
If Unc. details, cleaned examples are selling in the $80 range, that's their current market value, regardless of whether MS63's are only $20 more. Many straight graded unc. commems have very narrow price spreads, even between more than two contiguous grades in some cases.
The market has already had plenty of time to adjust.
What the coins might be worth in three years says nothing about their current value. Many coins might, and in fact, will be worth less (or more) at a future time.
There's no point, Mark. No matter how many comps I post, they'll just say that they know more than the market.
[And if you're not careful, they'll tell you to find a new forum also. ]
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
"Forum of high end collectors" Really? I dont remember seeing that in the PCGS guidelines. Am i in the wrong place?
Yes, probably. And someone will be along shortly to tell you to find a new forum.
On the first page at the moment, among the first 25 threads, we have:
This thread.
The End of WW II coin thread
The Mayflower coin thread
A thread about a "standing liberty" token
A thread about black beauty Jeffersons of 1958 and 1959
A JFK memorial thread
A complaint thread about the Mint
A thread about a 1965 quarter struck from worn dies
A thread about the UNC AGE
A 5% eBAy bucks thread
Another JFK memorial thread
Another End of WW II coin thread
A struck through grease coin found in circulation
A photography thread
A memorial thread
A coin roll hunting thread
Speculation about the next circulating commem quarter
You know what that comment tells me most of these people dont know nothing about coins and just want to put people down about what they buy.
I mean... You are the one who overpaid for a cleaned coin. This is a forum of high-end collectors. People who have been dealing longer than I have been alive have chimed in on this coin and given you their opinion.
If you want to coddled, go visit one of the other coin forums out there that encourages coddling. You will get nothing but the truth here.
"Forum of high end collectors" Really? I dont remember seeing that in the PCGS guidelines. Am i in the wrong place?
Yes, probably. And someone will be along shortly to tell you to find a new forum.
On the first page at the moment, among the first 25 threads, we have:
This thread.
The End of WW II coin thread
The Mayflower coin thread
A thread about a "standing liberty" token
A thread about black beauty Jeffersons of 1958 and 1959
A JFK memorial thread
A complaint thread about the Mint
A thread about a 1965 quarter struck from worn dies
A thread about the UNC AGE
A 5% eBAy bucks thread
Another JFK memorial thread
Another End of WW II coin thread
A struck through grease coin found in circulation
A photography thread
A memorial thread
A coin roll hunting thread
Speculation about the next circulating commem quarter
Comments
I totally agree. But the original question was whether $80 is a fair price. All comps point to that being a reasonable price.
I'm not saying they have to use all the UNC grades. I'm not saying they should use them all the time. But why not 60/63/65 or something like that, when warranted? A cleaned coin with hairlines is probably never more than a 60. But if I had a gem coin with significant rim damage, wouldn't it make sense to call it 65 details?
I really shouldn't comment, but I watched this thread disintegrate, and some posters showed their colors.
But I saw something a few minutes ago, and decided I would wade in just in case @Matthew17 is still here
Although 80. may not have been a bad deal, there is so much more for so close to the same amount it begs a reconsideration.
For an extra 15. bucks there's one on the BST right now in 63, and it's a good looker for a 63 from what I can tell.
More than anything, I think that is what a lot of the comments were about before this turned into a dumpster fire.
A long time ago a friend told me to pick a grade range that fit my budget, and then go find the nicest coin I could find for that range. Don't worry about buying Gem's if your budget is Choice AU ... stick to the range and the budget, but find the nicest coin you can there.
Those words ring true at every level in this hobby.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Nicely said.
Yes, in that particular case, it would make sense, but there are probably many others where it wouldn’t. So I’m fine with the way it’s currently done.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
$80 is on the high side but not terrible. There has been a lot of debate here for basically $20 worth of difference in hypothetical pricing...
Please @Matthew17 don’t feel like you can’t keep posting on the forum. Stick around! There are a lot of cantankerous folks in these parts ... sarcasm ... naysayers... hard facts ... brutal honesty and tough love ... and also on average a way higher coin IQ than you’ll find elsewhere ...so just keep on keeping on ... enjoy your coins! 👍🏻⭐️
Great weekend thread, coming to its eventual closing soon.
This forum needs something more controversial/interesting to debate about. This thread had some of the real time instant chat room style input like there used to be back in the day, but it’s just about a newbies coin purchase. I remember it being like that, but about bigger more exciting topics where I couldn’t wait to see what would happen next.
Mr_Spud
A lot of bannings have eliminated some of the more vocal people.
Always so concise, just 30.2752293577982% of the 1st 109 posts in this thread. Time to say goodbye again.
There's an ignore button. You can use it. If you need instructions, PM me.
At least I'm not chasing away newbies.
If you can buy an MS63 for $20 more, $80 is an overpayment for a cleaned one. The market just has not adjusted to that reality yet. Give it a few years. Literally, come back and tag this post in 3 years. No way they are still worth $80 by that point unless spot is north of $50 or something.
Relative to the other coin forums (have you visited them??) this is a very high-end forum in terms of the posters, the knowledge shared, and the coins. Sure, we have our derps here, but they embrace it and don't get abrasive when people don't give them the affirmation they want. You need a thick skin to post here. For every chewed up parking lot zincoln and machine doubled modern pocket change that gets posted here, there are half a dozen high end ($500+) coins posted. On most other forums, that ratio is closer to 1:2 than 1:6.
He already got the constructive criticism. It did not work. He clearly did not come here to learn, but for affirmation, and that is NOT the correct mindset to have when posting a badly cleaned commemorative half. Sometimes people need to be told a blunt opinion, not sugarcoated BS, so I gave it to him.
You say attitude, I say if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I can tell you have not set foot into the real world yet, and that you are living the imaginary world of academia. Do yourself a favor and don't leave, the real world is far harsher, and folks like yourself just don't last.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
If Unc. details, cleaned examples are selling in the $80 range, that's their current market value, regardless of whether MS63's are only $20 more. Many straight graded unc. commems have very narrow price spreads, even between more than two contiguous grades in some cases.
The market has already had plenty of time to adjust.
What the coins might be worth in three years says nothing about their current value. Many coins might, and in fact, will be worth less (or more) at a future time.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
LMAO. I've worked for industry as well as Academia. I've been in the "real world". Both "worlds" believe in collegiality as a positive trait among employees. If you talked to your colleagues in the "real world" the way you talk to the newbies on this forum, they would fire you.
"Forum of high end collectors" Really? I dont remember seeing that in the PCGS guidelines. Am i in the wrong place?
There's no point, Mark. No matter how many comps I post, they'll just say that they know more than the market.
[And if you're not careful, they'll tell you to find a new forum also.
]
Yes, probably. And someone will be along shortly to tell you to find a new forum.
On the first page at the moment, among the first 25 threads, we have:
Ha Ha i fully expect that