Jabs Family 72 OPC wax break
craig44
Posts: 11,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
I dont know if any of you are familiar with Jabs family on youtube, but he just did a group break of a BBCE 72 OPC wax box. well, the packs were really ruined from gum residue and Jabs is going to attempt to get a refund. he has pulled this before and steve gave him one. I think this is part of the risk of vintage wax and I hope steve tells him to pound sand. this was in no way steves fault
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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1972 opc packs notoriously have severe gum damage to the cards inside...I have opened several of these packs over the years and more often than not most of the cards are ruined by the gum bleeding through them...totally not Steve’s fault
There was a group rip of 72 OPC on these boards about 10 years ago from BBCE. I didn’t participate but it was a fun watch and i bought a pulled Ted Williams from a member which is still a part of my 72 OPC set. There were definitely some ruined cards in the rip, and yet i don’t recall any members asking Steve for a refund. That’s likely because they had class, unlike some of these YouTube deadbeats.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
if he opened the whole box I dont see how he has a chance of getting a refund. I was part of that group rip and a lot of people returned unopened packs to steve. I was not one of them.
Well then I stand corrected. This does seem dissimilar to the 1979 Topps cut case debacle.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
I think it's lame and ridiculous to expect a refund as long as the packs were authentic. First, it is well known that 72 OPC wax packs are prone to gum damage as the gum that year was especially large and sweet with the sugar from the gum often leeching out over the years. Second, there are no guarantees when opening 50-year-old packs. If you want to host group breaks and collect huge sums of money from the participants, you need to either own that reality or reimburse participants out of your own pocket, not expect the seller to refund you because there's gum damage to the cards in the packs. As long as the packs are authentic, the seller has no way to know what the condition of the cards is inside the packs. That's all part of the gamble of ripping vintage unopened product.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I opened a box of 1989 Bowman wax Two cards ruined by the gum and one by the wax per pack.
Also no Griffey. Can I get a partial refund?
No. Buying wax is a gamble. I would figure a minimum of 2 cards ruined per pack.
Why would a seller be expected to give any amount in refund if a buyer decides to rip an unopened box?
The box Jabs opened was not purchased from Steve. He acquired it on ebay from another seller. So, fortunately, it isn't Steve who will have to deal with a refund. That said, it potentially doesn't prevent Jabs minions from assuming that Steve authenticated a bad box, which is clearly not the case. Personally, I hope he doesn't get a refund. He should have been more educated on vintage OPC.
Looks like one should never buy vintage unopened that contains gum, if one day you may decide to open it. Seems you would have one damaged card from the outset.
That is not usually the case, but 70s OPC unopened wax is in fact notorious for this.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
rookie mistake on jabs part for even selling first two card slots on 72 opc. or really any of the slots in vintage that are pressed against the gum. always an inherent risk there. this isn't a '18 heritage gum-stained-back hunt.
continuing the break after 3 packs or so exhibit the same coincidences was rook move numbero dos. steve should give him a jab to the face and just say opc ya later.
I think it is despicable to ask for a refund in this situation.
What’s next? I eat a whole steak, digest it and return it after coffee is served?
“Sorry, sir, the steak tasted good but it ran right through me so I’d like to return it. Do you have a large mixing bowl and a clean bathroom?’
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
If it's wax, you can easily have a second card damaged.
I was part of that rip. Can confirm I had at least 3 or 4 cards ruined by the gum in my pack. What did I do about it ? I kept the wrapper for a keepsake, and learned a lesson that 72 OPC was not something to buy and rip. I agree with all the comments above. He should not get a refund, and it's not cool to even ask. He should've done his homework before buying that box. Being forced to issue a refund for a what ~$5,000 box could bury that seller, who did nothing wrong. And Steve did nothing wrong either. What's next someone asking for a refund because a whole pack of 70's cards is O/C ?
Jeff
Collecting:
post world war II HOF rookie
76 topps gem mint 10 commons 9 stars
Arenado purple refractors(Rockies) Red (Cardinals)
successful deals with Keevan, Grote15, 1954, mbogoman
I have probably opened about 3 boxes worth 1972 OPC wax packs (series 2 only), and I can tell you with confidence that I would open every box you give me with a smile on my face if you promise me that only 1 or 2 cards will be ruined per pack.
I cant tell you how many times the gum was stuck to the left/right/top/bottom (take your pick) edge of the top card, and multiple cards (sometimes the whole pack) were affected by the bleeding down the edge.
Here's what it looks like.
I have opened a dozen or so 72 OPC and my results were what I expected. I lost afew to gum and bleed through but I also had a few absolute stunners. The pick of the litter was an In Action Clemente that graded Mint 9. I love 70's OPC cards, rough cuts are the best.
Man, Larry Hisle really took a direct hit!
Scary Hisle!
Here’s my tale of woe(pee-chee):
My favorite part of this thread is Tim knowing the 72 OPCs packs had “especially large and sweet gum”. How awesome is that. You just can’t get that knowledge elsewhere.
You might as well try and sue OPC for the gum wrecking packs. That's just as dumb as asking for a refund
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I’ve always loved the 72 Aaron and Carew cards. Something regal about their upright poses or maybe the crisp white uniform shot.
So what’s his plan if he doesn’t get a refund? I wonder how successful he will be if he boycotts bbce product. Lol
Poor form
dear red & white,
i'd like to return this milk from '96.
i took the chance and when i opened it up, it just didn't taste right.
i demand a full refund.
sincerely,
jibber jabber
here is an honest question. I am not an unopened collector. just dont have the willpower. From what I have read, for the true unopened collector, it is the packaging itself that holds the true value, not the cards themselves. The rarity of the unopened product.
now, are those unopened 72 OPC packs still as collectable to the unopened collector? they appear in great condition, no tears, seals are tight. if they were to be graded, would they be just as desireable to you? I would imagine that none of our unopened collectors would open them once graded. Does it really even matter to the unopened collector that half of the cards in the pack have been ruined by the gum if they will never be opened?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Jabs is the most annoying breaker and just a downright awful person in general. The entire fault of this completely lies in his hands as he obviously did zero research on the 1972 OPC Baseball series 2 packs before selling spots for it. He should refund people out of his own pocket for not disclosing the obvious problem with breaking the 1972 OPC and chalk it up to being his own fault. Instead he is going to hope to drag down someone else financially.
For a small seller like me, it is no longer worth the risk to seller high dollar vintage wax on ebay. I have few more wax boxes I want to sell but haven't decided on the service I want to use, may try to branch out beyond PWCC and Rick.
myslabs allows wax now i think. 1% fee.
I remember those 72OPC rips too. Gum city.
Here are some ‘55 Bowmans where the gum melted in the pack, which must have been stored on edge, and the sugar ran and stained them all along the bottom as Nick described. Would have been a sweet Jocko otherwise....
Bosox1976
Here they are...
Bosox1976
Gum is only going to make all packs not holding gum go up in value. Pre 1972 all cello packs, rack packs, 1951 topps blue and red,1959 Fleer 8 card version. Those have a chance to live 1000 years or more. Lol. And people will be busting the heck out of those with no gum damage fears. But I’d still all day rather have a 5cent wax pack for my collection knowing all the cards are probably poor. Design and mystery is all I want.
Love the guy putting in the background. Anyone know who that is? Is it Oliva?
Here's the URL for the original video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m09cf8Swf8
Took me a little while to find it. I kept running into returns for the Cheap Fun Breaks video from a few months ago. (He did rather better on the gum damage front, aside from the tragic Carlton pack.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR0ly65DiOo
Offered for perusal
https://imgur.com/a/9ICZBxz
Many 73s, 71s, and 74s have been opened in the past 30 years without issue.
I believe the majority owner of the 72s did not store properly.
So stay away from 72s. Many other years are fine.
72 is definitely the most notorious for gum damage as I stated above, but you can usually count on at least one ruined card from gum damage in OPC packs from other years, as well. I have also opened plenty of 72 OPC packs with no issues at all, either. You just never know what you're going to get with vintage unopened product.,
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I saw a post on this on another site and the first thing in my mind was how can a "professional ripper" who is selling spots in a break not possibly know about the gum issues in 72 opc? I was part of the group break mentioned above from BBCE and still have my two packs unopened. I may get the itch someday but fully expect at least a couple of cards wrecked by the gum. As for Jabs, I would chalk it up to the immortal words of G I Joe..."Now I know...and knowing is half the battle."
www.questfortherookiecup.com
Yes, painful to watch and glad he stopped opening them!! He said he'd try to get a partial refund, but as most have said I think that's not happening. That's just old wax, and it was totally verified, wrapped and legit. Lesson learned!
If he sold by the card, then he'll just have to bite the bullet and refund everyone. If he sold by the pack, just send the rest of the unopened packs out to anyone who'd still like theirs, and refund everyone else.
Jason C.
Wave of Cards on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC52it5FXdZvDcbj_Ps7Fyqw
72s are well known for having a greater risk of having multiple cards ruined in an entire box. Not like 71s, 73s, or 74s where only the gum card is ruined and every other card is not ruined by gum. Sellers of 72 wax should have a buyer beware of that risk, but I’m not surprised that they don’t. The right thing to do is educate the public. The wrong thing to do is make money on a potentially damaged product.
It's not the seller's responsibility to speculate on the condition of the cards inside the packs as long as those packs are authentic and no damage is visible to the packs. I have opened many 72 OPC packs over the years and have pulled a ton of Mint 9 cards. If you want to host group breaks and collect huge sums of money from the participants, you need to either own that reality or reimburse participants out of your own pocket, not expect the seller to refund you because there's gum damage to the cards in the packs. As long as the packs are authentic, the seller has no way to know what the condition of the cards is inside the packs. That's all part of the gamble of ripping vintage unopened product.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
72s are notoriously damaged. Everyone knows that. To not make that statement as a seller is doing an injustice to an uneducated buyer.
All vintage pack guys know that 72 opc is a VERY risky rip because of the excessive damage due to storage by the major supplier.
No other year is like 72 opc when it comes to excessive card damage inside the packs.
If anyone chooses to deny the damage, or hide it, has to look themselves in the mirror, and try to sleep at night.
Make the hobby fun people. Educate the uninformed. Help them to have a happy hobby experience.
I don't know that a buyer beware is necessary. In this niche market, the folks who are going to fork out the dough to buy these products are going to either know the issues, or at least do homework on it. I'd have to say most people would do some homework before forking out $5,300 on a box.
I don't believe Jabbs is a bad person/ taking advantage; I just think he is naive doesn't understand how these packs work. Either way, he doesn't deserve a refund unless the seller out of the kindness of their hart gives them a partial one
I in no way believe Jabs should get any kind of a refund for the box. However, why would he need to refund any of the people who bought into the break? He is just a reseller of this box, the same as the person who sold it to him. Jabs just sold the product one pack at a time. wouldnt each person who bought into the break be expected to do their due diligence as well?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Andy
I agree and don't believe he is entitled to a refund, either. But he was using the guise of getting a refund from the seller of the authenticated box as a means to refund the participants of the break.
These pack and box breaks have created a very lucrative enterprise within the unopened niche with the cost per card or per pack in many cases far greater than the product purchase price invested the breaker. As a result, ripping vintage packs, which had previously been a money losing proposition in most most cases, has now turned into a profitable endeavor for the breakers, at least. And with that kind of platform and accompanying profit margins comes a certain amount of responsibility and risk.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Im not a fan of Jabs, only on the basis that his voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me. Maybe he is a nice guy, I dont know. I just know its difficult for me to listen. I might have an annoying voice too, who knows LOL
But past that, I did watch this rip because I have seen others talking about it. Seems like the bought the box off ebay. While I agree he doesn't deserve a refund, he will get it. Ebay always sides with the buyer.
He'll struggle to return it in the condition he received it. I don't think it will be as easy as you think.
Exactly. Since it's opened already, he won't get a refund. At least I sure hope that ebay doesn't side with the buyer here. The seller did nothing wrong.
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i think you may just have horrible luck. opened a fair share as well and i'd say the average is definitely 2 cards. sometimes only 1 and on very rare occasions up to 4.
isn't this the same guy that runs over kids at pirates batting practice while shagging balls w fishing nets and sells them off as being game used balls?
At some point the value of vending boxes is going to gain in value. Currently from the 70's and 80's vending boxes bring 30-40% of the value of an unopened box. It has been in my experience that the front 10 and the back 10 cards are affected in a vending box. That leaves 480 cards of really nrmt/mt or better examples available to the collector. This would be a much better break value for the breakers than a box but I guess they have not figured this one out yet.