Second to last paragraph. You guys all missed what I've been saying here for about a year now. It's the only problem. Everything else is secondary or tertiary to this. At least the mint is acknowledging it. But the primary focus needs to be here.
"Also, we have different sets of customers purchasing our products, including individual collectors and dealers. We do not provide preferential treatment to any of our customers, be they individual collectors or professional coin dealers, and we have measures in place, both automated and manual, to ensure that household order limits are adhered to. We have seen an increase of activity by another sector of customers—buying groups who offer to pay a premium to individuals who purchase our high-demand products. This sector is one of the reasons you are seeing high prices for our products on the secondary market. The Mint has no control over what individuals do with their numismatic products once they are purchased. Some customers choose to add these coins and medals to their collections, while others choose to sell them for a profit."
Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the big buyers groups have 10000 or more followers trying to buy stuff for them. Word gets out. PFS Buyers Club, Points Maker. And there are many others. I know a few churners who got this coin. All these groups were spamming their members, everyone in the universe knew to buy this coin and flip it to them. No one wanted to keep it. I can't shout this from the rooftops anymore. This is the primary problem that needs to be addressed.
@CoinPhysicist said:
Second to last paragraph. You guys all missed what I've been saying here for about a year now. It's the only problem. Everything else is secondary or tertiary to this. At least the mint is acknowledging it. But the primary focus needs to be here.
"Also, we have different sets of customers purchasing our products, including individual collectors and dealers. We do not provide preferential treatment to any of our customers, be they individual collectors or professional coin dealers, and we have measures in place, both automated and manual, to ensure that household order limits are adhered to. We have seen an increase of activity by another sector of customers—buying groups who offer to pay a premium to individuals who purchase our high-demand products. This sector is one of the reasons you are seeing high prices for our products on the secondary market. The Mint has no control over what individuals do with their numismatic products once they are purchased. Some customers choose to add these coins and medals to their collections, while others choose to sell them for a profit."
Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the big buyers groups have 10000 or more followers trying to buy stuff for them. Word gets out. PFS Buyers Club, Points Maker. And there are many others. I know a few churners who got this coin. All these groups were spamming their members, everyone in the universe knew to buy this coin and flip it to them. No one wanted to keep it. I can't shout this from the rooftops anymore. This is the primary problem that needs to be addressed.
Really like your passion about the issue.
Question - How do you propose that the Mint stop the buying groups? These people, like it or not, have a right to purchase, and then resell their purchases.
Note - I have not read all of your posts over the past year. So, if you have already shared potential solutions, I apologize for asking you to repeat yourself.
What everyone seems to be missing is that the mint won. EVERYONE was trying to force their way in the door at the open. People are talking all over about how they could make an easy several grand if only they were lucky enough to nag a coin at the offer. We're not talking about a 1901 half, we're talking about current mint product. The mint was, for seven minutes, extremely popular, and buying mint product became insanely profitable. The mint is able to say it sold something that broke the Internet. It is a huge prestige thing for the mint.
The mint has to be delighted that there are multiple threads on a popular coin message board about how upset people are that they couldn't buy from it.
This guy is as phoney as $3 bill issued by the U.S. Government. Any fook who thinks that a mintage of 1,945 coins is going satisfy demand is either stupid or totally dishonest.
The same goes for this Mayflower fiasco. In 1920 the mint had a net issue of over 150,000 Pilgrim half dollars. They even issued another 20,000 in 1921.
There are a lot more people and collectors now than there was in 2910. Does this fool think that less than 5,000 gold sets and less than 15,000 silver sets would satisfy the demand?
He knows better. He's just "collector hostile" and "flipper friendly" and that is no way to be in his position.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Not sure but to me that means they were only 75% successful at keeping the bots out.
If I am only 75% successful at my job I don’t think my employer would keep me around very long......
@CoinPhysicist said:
Second to last paragraph. You guys all missed what I've been saying here for about a year now. It's the only problem. Everything else is secondary or tertiary to this. At least the mint is acknowledging it. But the primary focus needs to be here.
"Also, we have different sets of customers purchasing our products, including individual collectors and dealers. We do not provide preferential treatment to any of our customers, be they individual collectors or professional coin dealers, and we have measures in place, both automated and manual, to ensure that household order limits are adhered to. We have seen an increase of activity by another sector of customers—buying groups who offer to pay a premium to individuals who purchase our high-demand products. This sector is one of the reasons you are seeing high prices for our products on the secondary market. The Mint has no control over what individuals do with their numismatic products once they are purchased. Some customers choose to add these coins and medals to their collections, while others choose to sell them for a profit."
Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the big buyers groups have 10000 or more followers trying to buy stuff for them. Word gets out. PFS Buyers Club, Points Maker. And there are many others. I know a few churners who got this coin. All these groups were spamming their members, everyone in the universe knew to buy this coin and flip it to them. No one wanted to keep it. I can't shout this from the rooftops anymore. This is the primary problem that needs to be addressed.
Really like your passion about the issue.
Question - How do you propose that the Mint stop the buying groups? These people, like it or not, have a right to purchase, and then resell their purchases.
Note - I have not read all of your posts over the past year. So, if you have already shared potential solutions, I apologize for asking you to repeat yourself.
Idea 1: Take orders for 1 week or 1 month. However many orders you get, that's how many you mint. I like this idea the best.
Idea 2: Stop publishing mintages until after it's sold out. I bet the gold privy eagle would have lasted far longer with far less flippers if the mintage was 1945 and it wasn't advertised everywhere. The buyers clubs wouldn't have been telling all their followers to buy it and flip to them because they wouldn't have known.
Idea 3: I'm not the craziest about this idea... but mostly speaking to the fact that trying to use the mint's website was more painful than just about anything, a lottery system. Will still leave people unhappy, because they didn't have to endure the torture of the mint's website.
@CoinPhysicist said:
Idea 1: Take orders for 1 week or 1 month. However many orders you get, that's how many you mint. I like this idea the best.
Idea 2: Stop publishing mintages until after it's sold out. I bet the gold privy eagle would have lasted far longer with far less flippers if the mintage was 1945 and it wasn't advertised everywhere. The buyers clubs wouldn't have been telling all their followers to buy it and flip to them because they wouldn't have known.
Idea 3: I'm not the craziest about this idea... but mostly speaking to the fact that trying to use the mint's website was more painful than just about anything, a lottery system. Will still leave people unhappy, because they didn't have to endure the torture of the mint's website.
Thank you taking the time to share your ideas. I appreciate it.
I do like the idea of 1 or 2 weeks to place your order. Once the time is up and the entries are all in, a random selector picks the winners.
As far as defeating the pfs type companies, you could require all entries to have had a verified 5 year membership to PCGS and/or NGC otherwise you don’t qualify.
Which excludes me and my almost 3 years.
This way only avid collectors and/or long time members qualify plus less stress on the server and the afore mentioned.
Problem is does it cancel the feeding frenzy that draws new collectors?
@CoinscratchFever said:
I do like the idea of 1 or 2 weeks to place your order. Once the time is up and the entries are all in, a random selector picks the winners.
As far as defeating the pfs type companies, you could require all entries to have had a verified 5 year membership to PCGS and/or NGC otherwise you don’t qualify.
The buyer's clubs are just here to make an easy buck. If it becomes harder to make that buck, either through (i) minting to demand or (ii) not telling the mintage until after it's over, they will disappear. They just want the guaranteed profit. That's why I don't think the lottery system is the answer because they can overwhelm that too. The lottery just gives you less website headache.
@CoinPhysicist
How could they get around the verified members only idea? I suppose they could elicit members with a 5 plus year track record but why would said member do it?
@CoinscratchFever said: @CoinPhysicist
How could they get around the verified members only idea? I suppose they could elicit members with a 5 plus year track record but why would said member do it?
If you have mint to demand or hiding mintages until sell out or end of the run, it won't matter. The buyer's clubs won't need "verified members" because there will be nothing for them to make a quick buck on. If the easy profit disappears, they will disappear too. I churn. As soon as the massive profit is gone, they will be too.
@CoinscratchFever said: @CoinPhysicist
How could they get around the verified members only idea? I suppose they could elicit members with a 5 plus year track record but why would said member do it?
If you have mint to demand or hiding mintages until sell out or end of the run, it won't matter. The buyer's clubs won't need "verified members" because there will be nothing for them to make a quick buck on. If the easy profit disappears, they will disappear too. I churn. As soon as the massive profit is gone, they will be too.
So your saying it would just be a secret about the mintage, I suppose that could work if it was actually kept secret. You might still see anguish from collectors who missed out. But your right about the buying clubs they couldn’t afford to be all in on every mintage not knowing if a profit existed.
But from the mint’s perspective how would you market an item without pushing some kind of narrative.
Keep in mind there looking to draw new collectors, I assume.
We’re mintages always advertised when it came to specialties?
@CoinscratchFever said:
Idea 1 defeats the whole purpose of having a low mintage high value coin.
Evidently no one here wants those. I’m really surprised by the response to all this. These limited runs are the best part about the modern mint.
I collect classic coins, not modern coins. So truth me told, it really doesn't affect me whatever the mint does. There are more than enough rarities from the last 227 years to satisfy me. I don't think the mint needs to create any new ones deliberately when we already have so many. Now if they minted to demand and few people bought one and it became a rarity, then fine.
Everybody says how they don't buy mint products anymore because they are over priced, boring, same old same old, etc. Yet people are shocked when the website crashes because of too many visitors at once.
@Morpheus1967 said:
Everybody says how they don't buy mint products anymore because they are over priced, boring, same old same old, etc. Yet people are shocked when the website crashes because of too many visitors at once.
Yep. I stopped buying my annual pile of Mint stuff in the mid 2000s. Too much stuff. It took up so much space and it also wasn't holding value. Now I only pick up an occasional low mintage item like this.
@CoinscratchFever said:
Idea 1 defeats the whole purpose of having a low mintage high value coin.
Evidently no one here wants those. I’m really surprised by the response to all this. These limited runs are the best part about the modern mint.
I collect classic coins, not modern coins. So truth me told, it really doesn't affect me whatever the mint does. There are more than enough rarities from the last 227 years to satisfy me. _I don't think the mint needs to create any new ones deliberately when we already have so many. Now if they minted to demand and few people bought one and it became a rarity, then fine. _
This! This is what I would think is best. Put certain items up for a week with no returns or a return penalty. When it is done, it's done.
This is nothing more than a fake apology from the mint. They either need to mint to demand (or at least have a max mintage of 7,500, with the new end of WWII design instead maybe having a 1,945 mintage since it's not a popular series), raise the issue price to $10,000 (rather than dropping it by $50) to get rid of the flippers. Or just simply have ALL collector 2020 AGE's and ASE's have the v75 privy. Either way, I really think the US Mint needs to stick to the KISS principle when it comes to products and it would be nice to go back to the days of the 1980s where all you had was a more limited catalog.
That would be fantastic if once you got one in your cart you had like no
More than five minutes to check out or it is released
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@Morpheus1967 said:
Everybody says how they don't buy mint products anymore because they are over priced, boring, same old same old, etc. Yet people are shocked when the website crashes because of too many visitors at once.
Or shocked when the mint tries to correct this and make something valuable and rare. Then the bitter ones still call them junk or artificial rarities.
Comments
They're going to do a thorough analysis of "what went wrong"?
This simple statement tells me that they have no clue, and probably never will. We are so screwed.
I knew it would happen.
Second to last paragraph. You guys all missed what I've been saying here for about a year now. It's the only problem. Everything else is secondary or tertiary to this. At least the mint is acknowledging it. But the primary focus needs to be here.
"Also, we have different sets of customers purchasing our products, including individual collectors and dealers. We do not provide preferential treatment to any of our customers, be they individual collectors or professional coin dealers, and we have measures in place, both automated and manual, to ensure that household order limits are adhered to. We have seen an increase of activity by another sector of customers—buying groups who offer to pay a premium to individuals who purchase our high-demand products. This sector is one of the reasons you are seeing high prices for our products on the secondary market. The Mint has no control over what individuals do with their numismatic products once they are purchased. Some customers choose to add these coins and medals to their collections, while others choose to sell them for a profit."
Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the big buyers groups have 10000 or more followers trying to buy stuff for them. Word gets out. PFS Buyers Club, Points Maker. And there are many others. I know a few churners who got this coin. All these groups were spamming their members, everyone in the universe knew to buy this coin and flip it to them. No one wanted to keep it. I can't shout this from the rooftops anymore. This is the primary problem that needs to be addressed.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Really like your passion about the issue.
Question - How do you propose that the Mint stop the buying groups? These people, like it or not, have a right to purchase, and then resell their purchases.
Note - I have not read all of your posts over the past year. So, if you have already shared potential solutions, I apologize for asking you to repeat yourself.
What everyone seems to be missing is that the mint won. EVERYONE was trying to force their way in the door at the open. People are talking all over about how they could make an easy several grand if only they were lucky enough to nag a coin at the offer. We're not talking about a 1901 half, we're talking about current mint product. The mint was, for seven minutes, extremely popular, and buying mint product became insanely profitable. The mint is able to say it sold something that broke the Internet. It is a huge prestige thing for the mint.
The mint has to be delighted that there are multiple threads on a popular coin message board about how upset people are that they couldn't buy from it.
This guy is as phoney as $3 bill issued by the U.S. Government. Any fook who thinks that a mintage of 1,945 coins is going satisfy demand is either stupid or totally dishonest.
The same goes for this Mayflower fiasco. In 1920 the mint had a net issue of over 150,000 Pilgrim half dollars. They even issued another 20,000 in 1921.
There are a lot more people and collectors now than there was in 2910. Does this fool think that less than 5,000 gold sets and less than 15,000 silver sets would satisfy the demand?
He knows better. He's just "collector hostile" and "flipper friendly" and that is no way to be in his position.
Not sure but to me that means they were only 75% successful at keeping the bots out.
If I am only 75% successful at my job I don’t think my employer would keep me around very long......
Idea 1: Take orders for 1 week or 1 month. However many orders you get, that's how many you mint. I like this idea the best.
Idea 2: Stop publishing mintages until after it's sold out. I bet the gold privy eagle would have lasted far longer with far less flippers if the mintage was 1945 and it wasn't advertised everywhere. The buyers clubs wouldn't have been telling all their followers to buy it and flip to them because they wouldn't have known.
Idea 3: I'm not the craziest about this idea... but mostly speaking to the fact that trying to use the mint's website was more painful than just about anything, a lottery system. Will still leave people unhappy, because they didn't have to endure the torture of the mint's website.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Idea 1 defeats the whole purpose of having a low mintage high value coin.
Evidently no one here wants those. I’m really surprised by the response to all this. These limited runs are the best part about the modern mint.
Thank you taking the time to share your ideas. I appreciate it.
I do like the idea of 1 or 2 weeks to place your order. Once the time is up and the entries are all in, a random selector picks the winners.
As far as defeating the pfs type companies, you could require all entries to have had a verified 5 year membership to PCGS and/or NGC otherwise you don’t qualify.
Which excludes me and my almost 3 years.
This way only avid collectors and/or long time members qualify plus less stress on the server and the afore mentioned.
Problem is does it cancel the feeding frenzy that draws new collectors?
The buyer's clubs are just here to make an easy buck. If it becomes harder to make that buck, either through (i) minting to demand or (ii) not telling the mintage until after it's over, they will disappear. They just want the guaranteed profit. That's why I don't think the lottery system is the answer because they can overwhelm that too. The lottery just gives you less website headache.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
@CoinPhysicist
How could they get around the verified members only idea? I suppose they could elicit members with a 5 plus year track record but why would said member do it?
How much of a failure is it when you sell over $5 million in product in 7 minutes?
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
SS, DD
We have heard it before and we will hear it again
If you have mint to demand or hiding mintages until sell out or end of the run, it won't matter. The buyer's clubs won't need "verified members" because there will be nothing for them to make a quick buck on. If the easy profit disappears, they will disappear too. I churn. As soon as the massive profit is gone, they will be too.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
So your saying it would just be a secret about the mintage, I suppose that could work if it was actually kept secret. You might still see anguish from collectors who missed out. But your right about the buying clubs they couldn’t afford to be all in on every mintage not knowing if a profit existed.
But from the mint’s perspective how would you market an item without pushing some kind of narrative.
Keep in mind there looking to draw new collectors, I assume.
We’re mintages always advertised when it came to specialties?
I collect classic coins, not modern coins. So truth me told, it really doesn't affect me whatever the mint does. There are more than enough rarities from the last 227 years to satisfy me. I don't think the mint needs to create any new ones deliberately when we already have so many. Now if they minted to demand and few people bought one and it became a rarity, then fine.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
I did my part to help my fellow collectors. Did not even try to order one. One less clog in the queue.
Everybody says how they don't buy mint products anymore because they are over priced, boring, same old same old, etc. Yet people are shocked when the website crashes because of too many visitors at once.
Yep. I stopped buying my annual pile of Mint stuff in the mid 2000s. Too much stuff. It took up so much space and it also wasn't holding value. Now I only pick up an occasional low mintage item like this.
This! This is what I would think is best. Put certain items up for a week with no returns or a return penalty. When it is done, it's done.
This is nothing more than a fake apology from the mint. They either need to mint to demand (or at least have a max mintage of 7,500, with the new end of WWII design instead maybe having a 1,945 mintage since it's not a popular series), raise the issue price to $10,000 (rather than dropping it by $50) to get rid of the flippers. Or just simply have ALL collector 2020 AGE's and ASE's have the v75 privy. Either way, I really think the US Mint needs to stick to the KISS principle when it comes to products and it would be nice to go back to the days of the 1980s where all you had was a more limited catalog.
a message from thousands of collectors to @davidjryder [someone needs to use this handle 😂]: 🖕
🤔
😶
Editor Letter - Today's Coin World
That would be fantastic if once you got one in your cart you had like no
More than five minutes to check out or it is released
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Or shocked when the mint tries to correct this and make something valuable and rare. Then the bitter ones still call them junk or artificial rarities.
I grew up on a farm, and the words we might've used on the farm for Ryder's comments are: "what a hunk of horseshit". Can't wait till after January.
In a capitalist society, profit is not evil.
While following the rules / laws.
Coin World 12/21 issue, Guest Commentary.
Mint officials should have known
https://www.pcgs.com/news/the-1995w-proof-silver-eagle
The first two paragraphs sum it up pretty well.
Substitute "US Mint" for "The Phone Company"
https://vimeo.com/355556831
From the glory days of SNL ...
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Several high end car manufacturers have announced special or limited editions, taken non-refundable deposits and increased production based on demand.
It's not rocket science.