@coiner said:
Looks like they will be pounding out many more 69s now. It always happens—when the 70 percentages are too high—grading gets stricter and the 69s flow
I think what you are seeing is the results of the average Joe submissions are starting to show. The big guys flood things first with a lot being submitted under FDOI and they have the 70s slabbed and the 69s are not slabbed. This skews the results to a heavy 70 percentage. The average Joe submits and takes what he is given. At this time us average Joes start hitting the pops under FS and the 69 count begins to increase. After the FDOI deadline ends I see the FS 70 ratio increase because the big guys use that tier with the same methods they use under FDOI. After the big guys are done, the average Joe's keep submitting and because the coins are not "screened" you now see a higher 69 count. I don't think that it is a matter of the graders getting stricter, it is a matter of whether the coins are being screened before slabbing and this happens less as time moves on.
What is the thought behind these low grades? I mean, my eyesight is very poor, but I think I can tell the difference between a 64 and a 70. Is there something in the process of minting with the privy mark that can cause low grades, or is it because the number minted is so "few" that people have decided to submit their coins "no matter what"?
@daltex said:
What is the thought behind these low grades? I mean, my eyesight is very poor, but I think I can tell the difference between a 64 and a 70. Is there something in the process of minting with the privy mark that can cause low grades, or is it because the number minted is so "few" that people have decided to submit their coins "no matter what"?
Ensuring the FDOI and FS designations I think many were sent in sealed boxes sight unseen.
@coiner said:
I bet that 70 percentage lands at less than 50% in a month out
I think the reverse Proof ASEs ended up at close 60:40 for 70:69. Since the mint's techniques likely haven't changed much since then, I would expect something similar.
@coiner said:
Looks like they will be pounding out many more 69s now. It always happens—when the 70 percentages are too high—grading gets stricter and the 69s flow
I think what you are seeing is the results of the average Joe submissions are starting to show. The big guys flood things first with a lot being submitted under FDOI and they have the 70s slabbed and the 69s are not slabbed. This skews the results to a heavy 70 percentage. The average Joe submits and takes what he is given. At this time us average Joes start hitting the pops under FS and the 69 count begins to increase. After the FDOI deadline ends I see the FS 70 ratio increase because the big guys use that tier with the same methods they use under FDOI. After the big guys are done, the average Joe's keep submitting and because the coins are not "screened" you now see a higher 69 count. I don't think that it is a matter of the graders getting stricter, it is a matter of whether the coins are being screened before slabbing and this happens less as time moves on.
Add to that that the dealers, and many flippers, pay for the expedited grading while most of the pure collectors are ok going the cheaper route and waiting (most....not all necessarily )
@Batman23
Been at this game more than a few decades.....I should have went at least 3of4 ; I went 1of 4.for ASE.....the faucet has been turning off the last week or so.
@coiner said: @Batman23
Been at this game more than a few decades.....I should have went at least 3of4 ; I went 1of 4.for ASE.....the faucet has been turning off the last week or so.
1 of 4... that is brutal.
I had sent in one ASE and I just got the results back this week. Graded 69. When I get it back I will have to see if I can figure out why. It looked real good.
It’s all about the percentages. Early birds seem to get the best grade thru then the standards start to tighten. Don’t look at the cumulative totals for % grade thru—-start looking at the weekly incremental %. About 46% now and dropping.
I know of (2) FS recent silver privy orders that went 1/5 and 4/21. But, only the (5) 70FS appear in the pop report as the (2) orders were Min. Grade 70. The other (21) coins were never slabbed and therefore don’t appear. A fee was paid for every one of those other 21 coins by the way. Hence, little to do with standards starting to tighten or loosen week by week IMHO.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I know of (2) FS recent silver privy orders that went 1/5 and 4/21. But, only the (5) 70FS appear in the pop report as the (2) orders were Min. Grade 70. The other (21) coins were never slabbed and therefore don’t appear. A fee was paid for every one of those other 21 coins by the way. Hence, little to do with standards starting to tighten or loosen week by week IMHO.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Good point. We shouldn't give the submitters too much credit. Haha
True on the last point of orders where min grade was 70....but Mitch knows this is the standard playbook of looser standard for 70s early on and tightening later.
I see that the overall numbers for AGE and ASE have not changed much over the last week at both companies. The flood appears to be over. 2/3 of all AGE resides in graded plastic and 1/3 of ASEs are in graded plastic. That is a pretty respectable percentage.
Numbers for today. The numbers from NGC are the same as last week, so NGC is either caught up and done with them or they just haven't updated their pop reports. PCGS has now surpassed NGC on the gold V75 count. I would expect these numbers to slow down in the near future after the backlog is caught up.
@TurtleCat said:
I wonder how many resubmissions have occurred? Or if any will occur?
My ASE graded 69. It really looks like 70 material to me but splitting hairs at this point. If I crack and submit I loose First Strike and risk a mark. If I send in for reconsideration then what are the odds of it moving to 70. Either way is not cheap and may have no gain. If I could keep the FS and knew I would get a 70 I would send it. But given the odds I'll just keep it as is.
I am resubmitting mine for reconsideration after I re-up in next month so will let you know.
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My AGE graded 69 PCGS but I couldn't find anything wrong (amateur eyes) . NGC has much higher percentage of PR70. Maybe I'll send it to NGC. I'll lose First Strike but does FS make sense for mintage less than 2000?
Just be careful on the crackout man. That is some big bucks you have slabbed
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I have two v75 ASE's in for grading, both first strikes. Bought the first one from the US Mint on release day and took it out of the acrylic case before submitting it to PCGS in a coin flip. The second V75 I bought on eBay and sent that one to PCGS still sealed in the Mint's shipping box since the first strike cutoff date had passed. The second V75 that I submitted came back this morning as PR70, still waiting on a grade for the first one that I submitted in the coin flip.
New numbers for the day. NGC has finally updated their numbers. Overall the weekly pop increases have slowed way down. I wonder if the AGEs will hit 1,500 (75% of mintage) before this is done.
@TurtleCat said:
With the quantity that have been graded as PR70, is there that much more of a premium for them at this point?
I hadn't been following the prices on these. I just looked over the Bay and I see that the PR70 prices have recently fallen overall. 70s still hold premium but not like it was before. 69s are just under $10k and 70s are under $12-13k. Not many raw ones to get a feel for but as expected they appear to sell between the 69 and 70 prices. As they find their homes and as demand subsides it will be interesting to see where these settle out overall.
The last time I looked at these was January. Now six weeks later the numbers are up a little but I think the grading game is basically done for these. I see that NGC finally separated the V75 ASEs from the regular 2020-W proof issue which makes adding numbers much easier.
A very large majority of these V75s now live in graded plastic. 76% of the AGE mintage was graded and entombed, this does not count the ones that were screened and did not meet minimums. A very impressive statement to the power of graded modern coins in our era of the hobby. 35,000 slabs is a considerable "extra" expense.
There were other TPG services slabbing these as well that might tick the percentage up. Wondering if the AGE has one of the highest slab percentages for a single coin? 🤔
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
@CoinMeister said:
There were other TPG services slabbing these as well that might tick the percentage up. Wondering if the AGE has one of the highest slab percentages for a single coin? 🤔
A close contender would be the 2019-S Rev PR ASE with 29,910 mintage and 20,496 slabbed at PCGS & NGC for 68.5%.
I don't normally follow the moderns but the V75 AGE is quite special because of the extremely low mintage and I can't think of another issue that would drive such a high slabbing percentage.
I still have my V75 ASE unslabbed. I can’t grade proofs at all but I think there’s one frosting blemish on mine but I can’t tell unless I open the container which I won’t do. I’d imagine the vast majority that will be submitted have been. It’s interesting to see the percentage of the items slabbed. It gives us some idea of proportion of dealers/sophisticated collectors/flippers vs accumulators (which I’ll be in this instance) who keep it as issued.
And from across the street even. I wonder if it would drop a grade if crossed
I did also see that NGC lists 4 ASEs as "Details" graded. I wonder what happened there.
My guess is a few were removed from the capsule and wiped off by someone inexperienced with a Kleenex or cloth "to get dust off" and ended up with barely visible fine hairline scratches = Details grade. Or maybe for lower grades like 63-65 the coin fell out of the capsule itself while shipping and got hits or scuffs. Some were probably sent in direct and the owners did not even look at the condition before mailing.
@TurtleCat said:
I still have my V75 ASE unslabbed. I can’t grade proofs at all but I think there’s one frosting blemish on mine but I can’t tell unless I open the container which I won’t do. I’d imagine the vast majority that will be submitted have been. It’s interesting to see the percentage of the items slabbed. It gives us some idea of proportion of dealers/sophisticated collectors/flippers vs accumulators (which I’ll be in this instance) who keep it as issued.
I sent my ASE in and it came back as 69. I have to look very hard and with the right light and angle I can see the smallest of frosting disturbance on the edge of the reverse shield. I've seen 70s graded with much larger and more obvious blemishes. You probably made the right choice keeping it as is.
Comments
thx for posting these btw
As of 6/1/2021, I've had successful BST transactions with: gowithmygut, AlanLastufka, Coinlearner, CXD, tommyrusty7, Coinflip, nurmaler, firstspousecoins
Looks like they will be pounding out many more 69s now. It always happens—when the 70 percentages are too high—grading gets stricter and the 69s flow
I bet that 70 percentage lands at less than 50% in a month out
I think what you are seeing is the results of the average Joe submissions are starting to show. The big guys flood things first with a lot being submitted under FDOI and they have the 70s slabbed and the 69s are not slabbed. This skews the results to a heavy 70 percentage. The average Joe submits and takes what he is given. At this time us average Joes start hitting the pops under FS and the 69 count begins to increase. After the FDOI deadline ends I see the FS 70 ratio increase because the big guys use that tier with the same methods they use under FDOI. After the big guys are done, the average Joe's keep submitting and because the coins are not "screened" you now see a higher 69 count. I don't think that it is a matter of the graders getting stricter, it is a matter of whether the coins are being screened before slabbing and this happens less as time moves on.
What is the thought behind these low grades? I mean, my eyesight is very poor, but I think I can tell the difference between a 64 and a 70. Is there something in the process of minting with the privy mark that can cause low grades, or is it because the number minted is so "few" that people have decided to submit their coins "no matter what"?
Ensuring the FDOI and FS designations I think many were sent in sealed boxes sight unseen.
I think the reverse Proof ASEs ended up at close 60:40 for 70:69. Since the mint's techniques likely haven't changed much since then, I would expect something similar.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Add to that that the dealers, and many flippers, pay for the expedited grading while most of the pure collectors are ok going the cheaper route and waiting (most....not all necessarily
)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
December 31 of the mighty 2020
The list has become long!
A four week summary of numbers... The gold AGE has definitely slowed down.
December 10:
December 17:
December 24:
December 31:
@Batman23
Been at this game more than a few decades.....I should have went at least 3of4 ; I went 1of 4.for ASE.....the faucet has been turning off the last week or so.
1 of 4... that is brutal.
I had sent in one ASE and I just got the results back this week. Graded 69. When I get it back I will have to see if I can figure out why. It looked real good.
Pre screened also. 4 of 8. One was on the edge.
Well—3 are off across the street for 70s
It’s all about the percentages. Early birds seem to get the best grade thru then the standards start to tighten. Don’t look at the cumulative totals for % grade thru—-start looking at the weekly incremental %. About 46% now and dropping.
I know of (2) FS recent silver privy orders that went 1/5 and 4/21. But, only the (5) 70FS appear in the pop report as the (2) orders were Min. Grade 70. The other (21) coins were never slabbed and therefore don’t appear. A fee was paid for every one of those other 21 coins by the way. Hence, little to do with standards starting to tighten or loosen week by week IMHO.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Good point. We shouldn't give the submitters too much credit. Haha
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
True on the last point of orders where min grade was 70....but Mitch knows this is the standard playbook of looser standard for 70s early on and tightening later.
Past couple of days AGE six 69 and three 70. My coin was graded around that time. I'm pretty sure I'll get a PR69
Not very many to choose from. I hope you get one of the three.
I see that the overall numbers for AGE and ASE have not changed much over the last week at both companies. The flood appears to be over. 2/3 of all AGE resides in graded plastic and 1/3 of ASEs are in graded plastic. That is a pretty respectable percentage.
68?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Numbers for today. The numbers from NGC are the same as last week, so NGC is either caught up and done with them or they just haven't updated their pop reports. PCGS has now surpassed NGC on the gold V75 count. I would expect these numbers to slow down in the near future after the backlog is caught up.
I wonder how many resubmissions have occurred? Or if any will occur?
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
My ASE graded 69. It really looks like 70 material to me but splitting hairs at this point. If I crack and submit I loose First Strike and risk a mark. If I send in for reconsideration then what are the odds of it moving to 70. Either way is not cheap and may have no gain. If I could keep the FS and knew I would get a 70 I would send it. But given the odds I'll just keep it as is.
Wow. Someone got PR64? Ouch...
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Don't " ouch" yet.
Last year I sold a few MS62 W quarters at MS64/65 price.
My ASE Privy, graded by PCGS, just got posted a proof 70! Oh happy day! It was a long wait but worth the wait in the end.
I am resubmitting mine for reconsideration after I re-up in next month so will let you know.
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Please do. I would be most interested to learn the results.
My AGE graded 69 PCGS but I couldn't find anything wrong (amateur eyes) . NGC has much higher percentage of PR70. Maybe I'll send it to NGC. I'll lose First Strike but does FS make sense for mintage less than 2000?
Just be careful on the crackout man. That is some big bucks you have slabbed
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I have two v75 ASE's in for grading, both first strikes. Bought the first one from the US Mint on release day and took it out of the acrylic case before submitting it to PCGS in a coin flip. The second V75 I bought on eBay and sent that one to PCGS still sealed in the Mint's shipping box since the first strike cutoff date had passed. The second V75 that I submitted came back this morning as PR70, still waiting on a grade for the first one that I submitted in the coin flip.
New numbers for the day. NGC has finally updated their numbers. Overall the weekly pop increases have slowed way down. I wonder if the AGEs will hit 1,500 (75% of mintage) before this is done.
With the quantity that have been graded as PR70, is there that much more of a premium for them at this point?
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I hadn't been following the prices on these. I just looked over the Bay and I see that the PR70 prices have recently fallen overall. 70s still hold premium but not like it was before. 69s are just under $10k and 70s are under $12-13k. Not many raw ones to get a feel for but as expected they appear to sell between the 69 and 70 prices. As they find their homes and as demand subsides it will be interesting to see where these settle out overall.
Looks like NGC numbers are plateaued out. The AGE looks to essentially be done. PCGS has graded another thousand ASEs over the last week.
The last time I looked at these was January. Now six weeks later the numbers are up a little but I think the grading game is basically done for these. I see that NGC finally separated the V75 ASEs from the regular 2020-W proof issue which makes adding numbers much easier.
A very large majority of these V75s now live in graded plastic. 76% of the AGE mintage was graded and entombed, this does not count the ones that were screened and did not meet minimums. A very impressive statement to the power of graded modern coins in our era of the hobby. 35,000 slabs is a considerable "extra" expense.
There were other TPG services slabbing these as well that might tick the percentage up. Wondering if the AGE has one of the highest slab percentages for a single coin? 🤔
A close contender would be the 2019-S Rev PR ASE with 29,910 mintage and 20,496 slabbed at PCGS & NGC for 68.5%.
I don't normally follow the moderns but the V75 AGE is quite special because of the extremely low mintage and I can't think of another issue that would drive such a high slabbing percentage.
I still kept my V75 AGE ungraded in OGP. I like keeping them in it. Sure looks like it could be a 70 though.
Wow. As low as PR63. Ouch.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
And from across the street even. I wonder if it would drop a grade if crossed
I did also see that NGC lists 4 ASEs as "Details" graded. I wonder what happened there.
I still have my V75 ASE unslabbed.
I can’t grade proofs at all but I think there’s one frosting blemish on mine but I can’t tell unless I open the container which I won’t do. I’d imagine the vast majority that will be submitted have been. It’s interesting to see the percentage of the items slabbed. It gives us some idea of proportion of dealers/sophisticated collectors/flippers vs accumulators (which I’ll be in this instance) who keep it as issued.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
My guess is a few were removed from the capsule and wiped off by someone inexperienced with a Kleenex or cloth "to get dust off" and ended up with barely visible fine hairline scratches = Details grade. Or maybe for lower grades like 63-65 the coin fell out of the capsule itself while shipping and got hits or scuffs. Some were probably sent in direct and the owners did not even look at the condition before mailing.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I sent my ASE in and it came back as 69. I have to look very hard and with the right light and angle I can see the smallest of frosting disturbance on the edge of the reverse shield. I've seen 70s graded with much larger and more obvious blemishes. You probably made the right choice keeping it as is.