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Who was more important to the Dynasty: BB or TB?
craig44
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in Sports Talk
I have noticed headlines beginning to pop up discussing who was more crucial to the Patriots dynasty. It sure seems to me that TB was more important.
I think we can also put to bed the thought that TB was a system QB who would fail anywhere else.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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I'll always believe it was Tom Brady. Bill got canned in Cleveland!
that garbage is all from the bill B ball washer squad . There are a whole bunch of captive sports writers reporters etc that basically issue propaganda releases
Brady 100%
https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/with-some-of-bill-belichicks-personnel-decisions-haunting-the-patriots-its-time-to-embrace-a-total-rebuild-044930165.html
All I know is, I'm really glad to see this topic recycled for the 367th time.
Bill got canned in Cleveland!
you can blame Cleveland Sports Writers for his failure.
I think it was truly the unique combination of the two. They fed off of each other.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, a mannequin could have coached during the Brady years and won six Super Bowls. Brady was the reason for the success.
The Patriots coach during the Brady era....
This has been my stance. Impossible without the two of them. Gun to my head... I choose Brady ...but like I said, perfect storm. Both Bill and Tom would have been fired/traded in far less than twenty years under normal circumstances.
This is basically what a drunk Jerry Jones said to reporters about Jimmy Johnson , right before Jimmy packed his bags and left overnight.
all tom , bill sucks without tom . If he wasn't such a terrible GM he would be fine without Brady . Just admit you can't trade or draft and hire some wizard to do that and the team is fine.
Bill is whining about being in cap jail like he isn't the idiot that signed those deals
The patriots , and someone check my work here , are still paying brady , the still owed AB money and even the murderer was still on the books.
They want to dump gilmore so they gave him a raise? does it make it much easier to move the guy when you do that?
There are degenerates sleeping in dumpsters behind dog tracks that manage money better than Bill does
We don't want to pay the GOAT enough to keep him , but lets write a contract where he is still on the books while playing for Tampa
The difference is that now they are on different teams and we actually have evidence to discuss.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I don't think that this season is a good judge of Belichick. I'd give it a few years. I know a lot of you disagree, but I feel very confident that we will turn things around. But Brady is clearly not, and never was, just a "system" QB
Half a season is no more evidence than the stretches Brady missed when they were together. It could easily be argued that plugging backups in for Brady when he was on the team shows more of the importance of each than having both on two completely different teams.
Who was more important to their team, Joe Montana or Vince Lombardi?
Really guys? Time to bust out the reminder. Nobody likes to be reminded but it has to be done. You guys made me do this, ok? Just remember that. I didn’t want to but enough is enough already.
Women and children, please avert your eyes.
Bill Bellichek looked at that and saw greatness. If that’s the ONLY thing he didn’t, he’d still be a huge part of Tom Brady’s success. But there’s not just that drafting a player that every team passed on 5-6 times, there’s also elevating that player to starter over an entrenched, #1 pick franchise QB that had already been to a Super Bowl. And then there’s having the team and it’s identity evolve around that player from a game controlling defensive teams to a prolific scoring team and putting all the right personnel around him to make it work. And then coaching the entire team on top of all that other stuff for the entire run. I just have a hard time with the fact that he seems to be getting no credit from Patriots fans.
I will also point out to those that point to his failures at Cleveland as evidence that he doesn’t know what he’s doing that before he got that job, he already had two rings as the defensive coordinator in ‘86 and ‘90 with the NY Giants. Some Giants fans like myself believed that, as architect of those defenses especially in ‘90 against the Bills in the Super Bowl, that he was essential to the teams success. You obviously needed Parcells Monday to Saturday but you weren’t winning without Bill B on Sundays. And his defensive game plan for the win over the Bills is in Canton. But I’m old school and I still believe it’s defense (and not just offense) that wins.
Finally, I’ll just add that Tom Brady is spectacular. My arguing for Bill is not saying Brady is a system QB or that there’s no chance that Brady wins without Bill. I would only say that - point of fact - Brady improves throughout his career. In 2001, he was not quite as instrumental as he was in the win over Atlanta. That’s not a knock - he did the job he was asked to do perfectly in both cases. But one was like asking Superman to stop a bank robber and the other was like asking the Man of Steel to fly around the earth, change the Earths rotation and turn back time.
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Already been hashed over TOO many times. Both guys were very important to the success of the franchise.
bill was 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe before brady got here
Now do Cassell & Garrapolo
I will always side with the guys on the field. I love the culture BB has created for the Patriots the last 20 years, but how would he have done had he drafted Chad Pennington instead of Brady? I will Take Montana over Lombardi.
similarly, a coach can rob players of greatness. Look at Dan Reeves and John Elway. Elways numbers during the first half of his career would have looked a lot different had he played for Shula or Bill Walsh.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
jimmy G played like 7 minutes here. Bill was wrong about that guy for sure . There are rumors he is coming back here
he can't stay healthy
thats correct. Brissett played more than Jimmy. I have also heard the rumors. i am all set with jimmy G coming back. he is made of glass.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yeah, it must be Brissett I was thinking of who filled in while Tom was suspended.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
HCBB👎.......QBTB👍.......IMHO
to call jimmy fragile would be a complement
I would call it 50 -50. Without good coaching, a potentially great quarterback will go nowhere.
I think Bill is right.
fixed that for you.
Listen to the fraud this week flooding the airwaves with excuses. "we sold out to win" lowest real money spent of any team for 5 years in a row
no QB , no wideouts , no tight ends, and no defense .
can't hit on any draft , assuming we get to draft and the picks aren't taken away as punishment.
How about this ? with just Brady and no bill to screw it up we might have 9 superbowls instead of only 6
i am confidant we would have beaten the eagles had BB not sat Butler._
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The "Bill" that I was referring to was fellow forum member Bill Jones. I guess I should have made that more clear. Unless of course you knew I was referring to Bill Jones and you think for some reason that he is a fraud. If that is the case then I must take exception to your edit of my statement on the grounds that since I don't know him personally I'm not in a position to judge his personal character.
i thought you were taslking about the british tv show
You lost me on that one.
its a london cop show that was on for 25 years , only about 1000 episodes
I had never heard of it. Once again @bronco2078 one of your comments sends me on an internet search towards knowledge.
not familiar with that particular brit show, but that's probably because I was always watching sped-up chase scenes with benny hill going after scantily clad women like a cheetah
Say what you will about that photo of Brady in his long underwear but I would bet money
he looked a lot more athletic than when Joe Montana was a rookie. Probably Marino also
and a lot of other rookie QBs.
One point that doesn’t get mentioned enough is that players WANTED to play for Brady, not Belichick. That counts for something 🤷♂️
Is there any correlation between the patriots defense sucking and bills kids getting hired ?
On talk radio they were saying the defense can't stop the run because the guys up front are undersized . A little guy standing still can't stop a guy 220 running full tilt , its called momentum apparently , folks have known about momentum for 2 or 3000 years , go figure . Whats worse the secondary has been tackling poorly because they don't seem to want to be the first contact, they are even smaller and the runner is moving even faster .
They also pointed out that bill the money whiz has 30 million tied up in the mcquartey brothers and joe tunney but spent only 2.5 million on all the QB's who all suck.
They also said why , if Cam was doing well in the first games doing read option type stuff , in his wheelhouse did they decide to stop doing that?
all the type we hear oh the patriots offense is very complex its super hard to learn . Here is an idea stop bragging about how tough the playbook is after losing game after game and simplify it . Morons , duh we have the toughest offense and its completely unsuccessful lets double down and make it tougher
Then these idiots are saying at the end of the year we will just get jimmy G back
, ya the fragile as spun glass guy whose current coach has no faith in ? that's the ticket
Somebody pointed out on another forum that bill loses on most of his trades in addition to missing in the draft.
Like um refusing a first rounder for jimmy G and taking a second instead?
or a 2nd for chandler jones then trading down out of the second ? what is this with the trading to lower rounds while every other team trades up?
They wanted a 1st and a player for Gilmore ! he just got a raise , he is hurt , and he seems to suck who would even want him at all at his money?
I think that 20 years ago we drafted good but someone other than bill was drafting and letting bill take credit for the picks, whoever it was left and now we are stuck with real bill drafts and its a nightmare
I might be misremembering, but I recall reading that Brady intentionally dropped weight before the combine in the hopes that he might run faster.
Not sure that ever worked out lol
I don’t think any reasonable Pats fan can argue any single part of this really.
I need someone to explain to me how complaining about this team - especially after the last 20 years - as it goes through year one of a rebuild is reasonable.
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If you were a New England guy you would probably understand that there is a huge debate on the Tom Brady.& Belichick divorce and the fallout behind it. It’s kind of a big deal for us Pats fans
It is a huge bone of contention up here in New England. Hearing a lot on talk radio about it. not sure how it is playing in the rest of the country.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I cant disagree with any of this. Patriots are a real mess right now and I dont think there is anyone else to blame but BB.
If I remember correctly, didnt Scott Pioli have a big say in the early 2000ś drafts? seems like since he left the draft pickings have been slim.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
bill is a massive tool. He steered jimmy G to San Fran as some sort of favor instead of maximizing the return.
If anyone dares question him he runs them out of town for a song.
His is a fragile ego that can't accept any criticism . He never takes responsibility for negative outcomes. Look at deflategate , whether you believe anything happened or not he dumped that whole thing on Tom Brady and walked away. that was a total bitch move
@perkdog
I’m aware of what you are saying. I just think making the move sooner rather than later will end up being the smarter play.
Tom Brady is the past, and maybe could have been the present but he is definitely not the future.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
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