Colonial Coins - What do you know about them?

MidLifeCrisis

What do you know? What do you think? What would you like to know?

Just thought I'd ask...

Zoins

I know the Massachusetts shillings were issued illegally. I’m wondering why Massachusetts chose to illegally mint silver coins but other colonies were okay minting legal copper coins.

lcutler

I got my first over 45 years ago and have been collecting them ever since, but there is still more that I don't know than I do!

PerryHall

@Zoins said:
I know the Massachusetts shillings were issued illegally. I’m wondering why Massachusetts chose to illegally mint silver coins but other colonies were okay minting legal copper coins.

What colonies issued legal copper coins? After July 4, 1776, there were states which were no longer colonies that issued copper coins. I'm guessing there was enough foreign silver coins already in circulation to meet the needs of commerce. It's interesting to note that foreign silver coins were legal tender in the US until 1857.

BillJones

@Zoins said:
I know the Massachusetts shillings were issued illegally. I’m wondering why Massachusetts chose to illegally mint silver coins but other colonies were okay minting legal copper coins.

The Massachusetts silver coins were issued from 1652 to 1682. That was a totally different era from the 1780s when the state copper coins were issued. The New England economy was further advanced than the other colonies in the 1600s. They were very big into ship building and international trade, especially with the Caribbean. It was one of the reasons why Boston area people were more radical about their dealings with Great Britain. The British mercantilist trade policies hurt their business dealings and the resentment grew from there.

Massachusetts needed a better monetary system sooner than most of the other colonies did. That's why they made the first silver coins and were the first to issue paper money. Maryland, under Cecil Calvert issued some silver coins, but they were made in England and were not issued for very long.

I am a little surprised that New York and Pennsylvania didn't issue any coins in 1600s, but maybe their leaders were not as brazen. In the case of Pennsylvania, perhaps the Penn family was on better terms with the British hierarchy.

By the 1760s, guys like John Hancock had gotten rich from the smuggling trade and wanted get out from under the British yoke.

The coins issued after 1782 really are not "colonial pieces." You might call them post-colonial or "Confederation pieces" since they were issued under the Artcles of Confederation. Recent editions of "The Red Book" have reflected this.

Zoins

@BillJones said:

@Zoins said:
I know the Massachusetts shillings were issued illegally. I’m wondering why Massachusetts chose to illegally mint silver coins but other colonies were okay minting legal copper coins.

The Massachusetts silver coins were issued from 1652 to 1682. That was a totally different era from the 1780s when the state copper coins were issued. The New England economy was further advanced than the other colonies in the 1600s. They were very big into ship building and international trade, especially with the Caribbean. It was one of the reasons why Boston area people were more radical about their dealings with Great Britain. The British mercantilist trade policies hurt their business dealings and the resentment grew from there.

Massachusetts needed a better monetary system sooner than most of the other colonies did. That's why they made the first silver coins and were the first to issue paper money. Maryland, under Cecil Calvert issued some silver coins, but they were made in England and were not issued for very long.

I am a little surprised that New York and Pennsylvania didn't issue any coins in 1600s, but maybe their leaders were not as brazen. In the case of Pennsylvania, perhaps the Penn family was on better terms with the British hierarchy.

By the 1760s, guys like John Hancock had gotten rich from the smuggling trade and wanted get out from under the British yoke.

The coins issued after 1782 really are not "colonial pieces." You might call them post-colonial or "Confederation pieces" since they were issued under the Artcles of Confederation. Recent editions of "The Red Book" have reflected this.

Great info @BillJones! Nice background on the economies back then and John Hancock.

It reminds me of George Washington joining the war and his Ohio River Valley lands.

Veep

I had heard that the 1652 coins were made with the same date for 30 years in order to fool the Brits into thinking that they had stopped making them.

BillJones

@Veep said:
I had heard that the 1652 coins were made with the same date for 30 years in order to fool the Brits into thinking that they had stopped making them.

That is one of the reasons given for the date freeze, but there is another perspective. Some say that is like the dates on paper money as a "series of 1652."

There is one Massachusetts silver coin that dated 1662. That piece is the Oak Tree two pence. The Massachusetts General Court, which was the colonel legislative, authorized that coin in 1662.

Zoins

@Veep said:
I had heard that the 1652 coins were made with the same date for 30 years in order to fool the Brits into thinking that they had stopped making them.

Yes, and that in 1652 England was a commonwealth, not under the king's law.

Mdcoincollector2003

For the most part they’re expensive.

1630Boston

@BillJones said:

The Massachusetts silver coins were issued from 1652 to 1682. That was a totally different era from the 1780s

Great point

1630Boston

BillJones

Here are examples of three Pine Tree denominations:

Three Pence

Six Pence

Large Planchet Shilling

The three and six pence coins are rarer than the large planchet shilling. They all sell for similar prices because of the "bigger is better" thing and by the fact that the shilling is more famous.

A small planchet shilling. These coins were struck on a screw press. The previous coins were struck on a rocker press, which left all of them bent. That is one of the reasons why these coins did not wear well in circulation.

These small planchet shillings were made from circa 1674 to 1682. By this time the British were running out of patience with this coinage. The Massachusetts General Court gave mint master, John Hull, the right to make these coins for the rest of his life. He only made shillings, and the small planchet coins are the most common Massachusetts silver coins.

ricko

@BillJones.... Thanks for the history of these interesting coins... and the great pictures as well. Cheers, RickO

sparky64

What do I know about them?
Embarrassingly very little.
Always been disappointed that my home state of Pennsylvania doesn't have any.

BillJones

To complete the loop, here is a 1663 British Shilling of King Charles II, which was made during the Pine Tree Shilling era. The British pieces weighed about 25% more than the Massachusetts coins. That was one way the colonists used to discourage the export of their coins. People were also subject to searches if they tried to take too many pieces out of Massachusetts.

Charles II was quite the lady’s man. He fathered 16 illegitimate children. Oddly enough, he never fathered any children with the queen. As a result, the crown passed to his brother, James II. James was a Catholic and he tried to re-establish the church in England. The result was “the Glorious Revolution” which a bloodless coup that chased James from the throne.

amwldcoin

If they all look like that I could see it as a blundered 5 in the date...which is very crude. The 6 looks 1/2 way between a 5 and a 6 if you scrutinize it!

@BillJones said:

@Veep said:
I had heard that the 1652 coins were made with the same date for 30 years in order to fool the Brits into thinking that they had stopped making them.

That is one of the reasons given for the date freeze, but there is another perspective. Some say that is like the dates on paper money as a "series of 1652."

There is one Massachusetts silver coin that dated 1662. That piece is the Oak Tree two pence. The Massachusetts General Court, which was the colonel legislative, authorized that coin in 1662.

BillJones

If they all look like that I could see it as a blundered 5 in the date...which is very crude. The 6 looks 1/2 way between a 5 and a 6 if you scrutinize it!

Your observation runs counter to all of the reference books.

All of the Oak Tree Two Pence coins were made from one die pair. The dies were used for years and re-furbished multiple times. The Noe numbers all represent the same variety under different die states. Therefore the date can look different on one coin to another.

1630Boston

@BillJones said:
Here are examples of three Pine Tree denominations:

Thanks for the great info

1630Boston

These are my prized possession

MidLifeCrisis

Thanks to @BillJones, @1630Boston, and everyone who has posted so far.

Here are two of my favorite colonial era coins I've owned over the years.