Home Precious Metals

Copper. Should I be paying attention?

A buck forty nine or two dollars an ounce or whatever. Is it something that's a serious thing among bullion folks, or just a money grab? Does anyone here buy this metal? Your thoughts, and are people missing out for not taking it seriously?

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Comments

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    I note that APMEX has a copper bullion section with 1 to 100 ounce options. Ground floor opportunity or sucker's bet?

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    According to the dictionary, the term bullion applies only to precious metals. Copper isn't a precious metal.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    I completely agree PerryHall. Are the definitions being redefined though? Why is copper an option now, and is it a viable one? It's there for purchase if so inclined, and I'm asking. That's all.

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    On your side, but, it's out there.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bennybravo said:
    I completely agree PerryHall. Are the definitions being redefined though? Why is copper an option now, and is it a viable one? It's there for purchase if so inclined, and I'm asking. That's all.

    I think it's a gimmick. Stamp copper bars and rounds with a fancy design, call it bullion, mark up the price well over melt value, market it as an investment, and then rake in the profits. It's okay to buy a few as a novelty but don't put your life savings into them.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    hmmmm

    current copper price $3.20/pound

    a copper round $3.00/ounce

    I'll let you tell me if copper rounds are a good investment.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    I actually agree with Perryhall. I'm posting because I want to get it if it is a thing. There are people buying copper. That lowly metal our childhood pennies were made from. Is anyone a buyer her, and what are your opinions?

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it's been a thing or there wouldn't be sales.

    someone is buying.

    it's not me.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    And the entire reason I post MsMorrisine. There are buyers is a point well made that i am pointing out. Are we dufuses for not stocking up on hundred ounce bars of copper on the cheap, or is this a scam?

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've bought quite a bit of copper, in the form of 1/2" type L tubing, typically in 10' sections.

    It's been a great investment, keeps my water right where it needs to be, and helps it get where it needs to go.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    Anyone remember paladium at 280 an ounce? Just asking if copper is something that might be over> @Baley said:

    I've bought quite a bit of copper, in the form of 1/2" type L tubing, typically in 10' sections.

    It's been a great investment, keeps my water right where it needs to be, and helps it get where it needs to go.

    LOL, there ya go brother. Maybe you can rip that stuff out and retire a multi-millionaire someday.

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    Again, I don't get it. I see bars and rounds of copper being sold though. Just asking other bullion folks.

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    When people are forming metals into 1 ounce and above variants, it's something to look at. Full disclosure, I own no copper bullion.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Buy a few copper bars and rounds and then take them to a coin shop and offer them to the dealer. See what he offers you assuming he offers you anything. They are strictly novelties and definitely not investments.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020 3:03PM

    Buy mint sealed bags of 5000 cents.
    Pre 1982 .
    I bought 3 bags of 1961 p mint for $55 per bag at a coin show years ago. Only $5 over face. Dealer didn't want to tote them back home.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    why even pay $5 over face for common date cents? pay $0 over face by not buying them.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    And there ya go. I don't get it. I'd love to hear from the pro copper side though. Anyone?

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPGS said:
    Buy mint sealed bags of 5000 cents.
    Pre 1986.
    I bought 3 bags of 1961 p mint for $55 per bag at a coin show years ago. Only $5 over face. Dealer didn't want to tote them back home.

    Pre 1982.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    Just to be clear from your post. Are you holding copper PerryHall? Would you recommend it?

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020 3:04PM

    @PerryHall said:

    @TPGS said:
    Buy mint sealed bags of 5000 cents.
    Pre 1986.
    I bought 3 bags of 1961 p mint for $55 per bag at a coin show years ago. Only $5 over face. Dealer didn't want to tote them back home.

    Pre 1982.

    Thanks. Let me edit.

    I like the sealed bags. Could be errors inside and they look cool.

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020 3:20PM

    @MsMorrisine said:
    why even pay $5 over face for common date cents? pay $0 over face by not buying them.

    It's worth an extra $5 not to have to pre 82 date sort and deal with dirty cents with weird back stories.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,199 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bennybravo said:
    Just to be clear from your post. Are you holding copper PerryHall? Would you recommend it?

    I have a few rare copper coins but no copper in the form of bars and rounds. My post was just pointing out that cents made before 1982 are copper with the exception of the steel cents of 1943. The cents made in 1982 are both copper and copper plated zinc since it was a transition year for the cent and they need to be segregated based on weight. Some people can separate them by dropping them on a hard surface and listening to the sound or ring they make.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,290 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I only get excited if/when copper goes north of $5.00/LB. Then a standard $.0.05 nickel has a melt value of $0.08. Instant 60% profit no need to sort pre 82 pennies, just buy boxes of nickels at face and your done.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    And I was 8 or 9 when we went to zinc and people started hoarding copper pennies. Would you say copper is good to hold Perry? Please, other bullion folks chime in. Perry actually has the stones to voice his opinion.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    may you find a dated off-center strike

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    What does that mean MsMorrisine! I'll bite.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPGS said:

    I like the sealed bags. Could be errors inside and they look cool.

    may you find a dated off-center strike

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bennybravo said:
    When people are forming metals into 1 ounce and above variants, it's something to look at. Full disclosure, I own no copper bullion.

    Maybe they do it because the margins are high when sold to chump end user collectors.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • bennybravobennybravo Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭

    A great opinion! Any pro copper?

  • JmisJmis Posts: 112 ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020 5:25PM

    I’m all in! Started my stack a few weeks ago. My local coin guy bought a large collection and it had some copper in it. I figured what the heck?!?!? I’ll take some weight off your hands. Funny thing is, I think about buying some more from him and now I check it with gold and silver daily. Lol 😂

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    I only get excited if/when copper goes north of $5.00/LB. Then a standard $.0.05 nickel has a melt value of $0.08. Instant 60% profit no need to sort pre 82 pennies, just buy boxes of nickels at face and your done.

    Nickels are a great copper play.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    listen i have a copper tip for you and you can close the thread.

    If you see copper roll flashing for sale on craigslist buy that at melt ignore the rest.

  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-copper-stockpiles-graphic-idUSKBN2761B5

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-copper-demand-electric-vehicles-idUSKBN1940PC

    Not advocating for stacking copper rounds or bars, but this might be why more people are talking about it lately. For the click-lazy: EV use far more copper than gas powered cars; also China doesn’t produce a lot of copper and is now stockpiling it.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have copper coins (U.S. cents and some British )... I think I have a copper round that had a nice design. I do not think it is time to stack copper....Cheers, RickO

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been guilty of buying the poured/cast copper bars by Geiger, but I know it's money spent/wasted. I did it for the novelty of it and wouldn't call it an investment, it's just for fun. What few pieces I have are sufficient, I wouldn't buy any more...

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I delved into the world of scrapping this year and it’s amazing what kind of copper you can find in everyday items that are normally destined for the landfill. I’ve probably got a couple hundred pounds so far and Even built a backyard metal foundry to melt it into bars/coins/cast shapes. It’s been fun and rewarding considering the metal is both free/recycled and I’m learning about metal work.

    If I was to buy copper, I would look at estate sales or auctions for spools of wire at as close to melt price as possible. I don’t think I would try and undercut local scrapyards as you would have to deal with some shady people and some copper could be stolen.

    Sealed mint bags of pre 82 pennies would be cool at the right price, or even at spot (nearly 2c a piece at time of writing) if you are looking to speculate on the metal, but remember two things... you’ll need a buyer come right time, and that those coins are made of coin bronze or 95% copper.

    Lastly, yes copper is a base metal with many of the properties of a precious metal but I think I read an article that said it was actually designed a PM in 1994 or something, I can’t seem to find that again... either way I like it and good luck to you.

    It's all about what the people want...

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't spend my time or money stacking copper. Rolls of nickels maybe, but not scrap copper unless you are doing what LukeMarshall is doing, and enjoying the process.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    how would anyone make money collecting cents and nickels at face even when they are worth 3cents and 9cents apiece?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020 3:28PM

    @MsMorrisine said:
    how would anyone make money collecting cents and nickels at face even when they are worth 3cents and 9cents apiece?

    You can hold it or always turn it back into a bank. Someday copper could rise high enough that all the nickels and pre 1982 1/2 copper cents will disappear from circulation. Just like all the 90% and 40% silver did back in the 1960's.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020 3:39PM

    holding it or turning it in for face does not make money

    and nickels won't disappear

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    You don't make money holding copper cents and nickels. You speculate.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020 3:46PM

    you could run your own foundry and illegally melt them, but that would be illegal.

    how does one make money off pre1982 cents and our nickels?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    speculation? speculating what?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    here is someone speculating wheat cents will be worth more in the future, but people buy wheat cents for more than face value. common memorials will have desirability over face in the future? That's speculative. very. Is that your speculation? and what about nickels. those will remain in circulation. who will pay over face for those?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • KentuckyJKentuckyJ Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020 4:10PM

    Copper has obvious value. A bunch of copper was stolen from a construction site here in Franklin, TN, just within the past week. Some recent interest in copper could be from news reports correctly noting the ability of copper to mitigate the lethality of germs and virus particles. I considered buying the poured/cast copper bars by Geiger a few months ago, mostly as a novelty bookend weight. I didn't do anything about it because 1. the price started rising and 2. no use having someone at the USPS, UPS or FedEx erroneously believe I was bringing in heavy blocks of gold or silver. Copper may be of even greater practical value if the future gives us a post apocalyptic world where the grid has gone down, wiped out where you live for whatever of many possible causes. I'm not interested in surviving that speculative scenario, which is just my personal present moment old age/state of mind. As an investment, buying copper doesn't look promising other than maybe in some paper market gamble, which is always throwing the dice and YMMV. Copper is definitely on a much different level than traditional precious metals.

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020 6:23PM

    @MsMorrisine said:
    you could run your own foundry and illegally melt them, but that would be illegal.

    Technically it’s not illegal to melt them, but it is illegal to melt them and sell them for a profit.

    You can melt them and use the raw material for Art, and as much as we love our bars and consider them a work of art...

    I actually plan on melting some into a bar and making a cool video about it, but sorry y’all, it won’t be for sale!

    how does one make money off pre1982 cents and our nickels?

    You could get them back as change or through Coin Roll hunting (face value) and sell them on eBay for metal value or more... but I suspect the margins would be slim with eBay paypal fees plus the whole effort/time thing.

    It's all about what the people want...

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    do not forget about the volumes wording.

    the whole idea is not only to keep people from profiting off the metal value but also to keep the mint from having to replace those already minted coins with coins that cost more than face to mint.

    they'd knock on someone's door if they made a lot of non-profit art from them.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and you could melt some and make art for a profit

    those elongated penny machines make a profit

    use 100 cents and make a dollar bill art bar.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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