Brasher Doubloon or ANT IPO

privaterarecoincollector

What do you think is the better investment longterm ?
Buy the Brasher Doubloon NGC 65 in January or invest into the ANT financial IPO ?
I think ANT IPO might be so much better investment....

Boosibri

ANT for my money

johnny9434

whats an ant? some sorta big bug?

Boosibri

@johnny9434 said:
whats an ant? some sorta big bug?

China’s biggest mobile payments company

Boosibri

@PrivateCoinCollector if you are be able to get in on the IPO at $35 that seems like a good move.

privaterarecoincollector

trying to get in, its hard. And then we need to see what is the allocation you get.

scubafuel

The Brasher cannot create cash flows, expand markets, or create new technology. Its price appreciation relies on things like ANT investors doing well.

Boosibri

@privaterarecoincollector said:
trying to get in, its hard. And then we need to see what is the allocation you get.

I have no hope of an allocation but will likely build a position if the aftermarket pricing offers a reasonable opportunity

johnny9434

@Boosibri said:

@johnny9434 said:
whats an ant? some sorta big bug?

China’s biggest mobile payments company

thank you

Unknown

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SmEagle1795

There's a third Brasher floating around for sale privately too so supply is atypically high at the moment. I'd say go for the IPO.

MrEureka

Buy ANT, flip it, and buy the Brasher with the profits. Of course.

privaterarecoincollector

@btcollects said:
the fact you asked this question illustrates that you have more than enough money already and that you must buy the doubloon

your life will not be complete without the coin

the boss move would be to get the allocation and then tell all your friends that you bought coins instead

I promise you, my life is perfectly complete without the coin.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

nags

ANT, no question. I'd take a position for sure, but my broker won't have an allocation of this one.

291fifth

Coins are hobby items, even rare ones like the Brasher piece. I don't consider them to be investments. Speculations, maybe, but not investments.

Desert Moon

ANT, I am in on this one..........

privaterarecoincollector

@btcollects said:

@privaterarecoincollector said:

@btcollects said:
the fact you asked this question illustrates that you have more than enough money already and that you must buy the doubloon

your life will not be complete without the coin

the boss move would be to get the allocation and then tell all your friends that you bought coins instead

I promise you, my life is perfectly complete without the coin.

good head fake, smart yeah don't let anyone know you have to have it

no honestly, its just a place holder for an expensive coin. While I like the idea of owning a Brasher Doubloon, it doesnt fit into anything I might want to collect.

cameonut2011

I'm probably in the minority, but I have no interest in ANT. Chinese companies notoriously lie, and this one is affiliated with Alibaba which sells counterfeit merchandise including coins. PASS. I'd take the coin if I had to pick one, but ideally I would put the money elsewhere.

Zoins

To make it a more even comparison, you can make the Brasher an income producing asset.

For example when Adam Crum and Michael Carabini purchased Walter Perschke's Brahsher, they not only used it for marketing of their firm, but they also produced and sold replicas, similar to what the Smithsonian does with their collection.

You might still not make as much as on ANT, but at least the Brasher would be making money!

ricko

Do both... One is a hobby, the other an investment. Unless you consider investing in IPO's a hobby.... Cheers, RickO

Desert Moon

@cameonut2011 said:
I'm probably in the minority, but I have no interest in ANT. Chinese companies notoriously lie, and this one is affiliated with Alibaba which sells counterfeit merchandise including coins. PASS. I'd take the coin if I had to pick one, but ideally I would put the money elsewhere.

BABA is going to have a 30% share of the ANT stock. Good for me and my BABA stock. The folks running these companies are some of the brightest buisness persons in the world and they have potentially the biggest market share for their services. The company Alibaba does not sell counterfeit merchandise directly, some of their member stores do, and they are constantly eliminating these as soon as they find them and can. Further to say 'Chinese companies notoriously lie', is a broad and vague statement that has no more merit than saying 'Americans companies notoriously lie' or 'French companies notoriously lie' etc. Everyone lies and everyone tells the truth, just look at what is going on in the world............. Bottom line is that the upside for ANT and getting in before later hype (e.g. look at TSLA) is a good move in terms of value for sure. But good news is, as long as many have these opinions, I am going to get in on the ground floor at a lower stock price.

So who will better be able to buy a Brasher doubloon, those that evaluate stocks and make good decisions, or those that don't?

Best, SH

privaterarecoincollector

Neither nor: Im buying ancient Roman coins now.

Boosibri

@privaterarecoincollector said:
Neither nor: Im buying ancient Roman coins now.

Let’s see your new Eid Mar

privaterarecoincollector

we were not sure the coin is authentic, so we avoided it.

ffcoins

@spacehayduke said:

Further to say 'Chinese companies notoriously lie', is a broad and vague statement that has no more merit than saying 'Americans companies notoriously lie' or 'French companies notoriously lie' etc. Everyone lies and everyone tells the truth, just look at what is going on in the world.............

While I commend your democratic outlook, it shows an ignorance of China and Chinese companies. A Brasher doubloon is not subject to corrupt “government insight,” nor revelations of cooking its books (a la Luckin and a very long list of other companies over the past decade plus), nor is it enmeshed and trying to function in an inherently corrupt, dictatorial system (a la ANT and BABA). It blows me away that anyone would sink money into a Chinese venture at this point, but I guess greed is blinding.

Brasher doubloon for me, any day.

MsMorrisine

Beijing just yanked Ant Group's IPO to show Jack Ma who's really in charge

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/tech/ant-ipo-beijing-china-intl-hnk/index.html

Finest-known 1787 Brasher doubloon from Partrick Collection to return to market

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/finest-known-1787-brasher-doubloon-from-partrick-collection-to-return-to-market

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/5746959-006/65/

ffcoins

@MsMorrisine said:
Beijing just yanked Ant Group's IPO to show Jack Ma who's really in charge

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/04/tech/ant-ipo-beijing-china-intl-hnk/index.html

Finest-known 1787 Brasher doubloon from Partrick Collection to return to market

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/finest-known-1787-brasher-doubloon-from-partrick-collection-to-return-to-market

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/5746959-006/65/

From a better source:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ant-group-ipo/china-slams-the-brakes-on-ant-groups-37-billion-listing-idUSKBN27J1OS

-CCP creates bogus fin sector regulation, applies it unevenly. Ant is run by Ma who assumes regulation isn’t meant for him, so he skirts it.

-Unregulated, Ant engages in harmful lending.

-Emboldened, Ant founder insults CCP. Bogus fin sector regulation gets used as a cudgel, its sole intended purpose.

-American investors lose money. Wish they had a Brasher doubloon instead.

Zoins

@ffcoins said:
-American investors lose money. Wish they had a Brasher doubloon instead.

Wouldn't that only be if they called in Jack Ma after the IPO? Before the IPO is protecting American investors and letting them buy the doubloon!

MsMorrisine

IPO shares can be flipped, too. Although, I'm not sure that's the plan.

Zoins

@MsMorrisine said:
Finest-known 1787 Brasher doubloon from Partrick Collection to return to market

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/finest-known-1787-brasher-doubloon-from-partrick-collection-to-return-to-market

When was the Garrett-Patrick specimen graded to NGC MS65*, becoming the finest known certified 1878 Brasher, Punch on Wing?

Back in 2016, the Perschke-Crum NGC MS63 was known as the "finest known certified 1787 Brasher, Punch on Wing doubloon".

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/brasher-doubloon-former-owner-walter-perschke-dies.html

Zoins

Another way to think about this is:

Buy the Brasher with your TSLA or NIO money

ffcoins

@Zoins said:

@ffcoins said:
-American investors lose money. Wish they had a Brasher doubloon instead.

Wouldn't that only be if they called in Jack Ma after the IPO? Before the IPO is protecting American investors and letting them buy the doubloon!

Take a look at BABA

Zoins

@ffcoins said:

@Zoins said:

@ffcoins said:
-American investors lose money. Wish they had a Brasher doubloon instead.

Wouldn't that only be if they called in Jack Ma after the IPO? Before the IPO is protecting American investors and letting them buy the doubloon!

Take a look at BABA

Well, protecting people from the ANT IPO and BABA are similar, but still different. Buying an ANT IPO allocation is different than picking up BABA on the open market.

RedCopper

Private Rare Coin Collector Now you’re collecting the same dreck as Tyrant ?
You should not pass up this opportunity to own the finest
Brasher Dubloon
Why would you buy ANT when you own Air B&B ?
Ever think about collecting the finest
Lincoln cents, Indian cents and Flying Eagle cents ?

MsMorrisine

let's not belittle other collecting

privaterarecoincollector

Looks like its an easy choice now LOL who would have thought there is no ANT IPO ???!!!

privaterarecoincollector

@RedCopper said:
Private Rare Coin Collector Now you’re collecting the same dreck as Tyrant ?
You should not pass up this opportunity to own the finest
Brasher Dubloon
Why would you buy ANT when you own Air B&B ?
Ever think about collecting the finest
Lincoln cents, Indian cents and Flying Eagle cents ?

@RedCopper said:
Private Rare Coin Collector Now you’re collecting the same dreck as Tyrant ?
You should not pass up this opportunity to own the finest
Brasher Dubloon
Why would you buy ANT when you own Air B&B ?
Ever think about collecting the finest
Lincoln cents, Indian cents and Flying Eagle cents ?

Im buying Roman Aurei now, its really the best.

https://www.sixbid.com/en/roma-numismatics-ltd/7787/the-g-t-collection-of-the/6355248/vitellius-av-aureus-rome-late?term&orderCol=starting_price&orderDirection=desc&priceFrom&displayMode=large&auctionSessions=&sidebarIsSticky=false

https://www.sixbid.com/en/roma-numismatics-ltd/7787/roman-imperial/6355336/domitian-av-aureus-rome-ad?term&orderCol=starting_price&orderDirection=desc&priceFrom&displayMode=large&auctionSessions=&sidebarIsSticky=false

Zoins

@privaterarecoincollector said:

@RedCopper said:
Private Rare Coin Collector Now you’re collecting the same dreck as Tyrant ?
You should not pass up this opportunity to own the finest
Brasher Dubloon
Why would you buy ANT when you own Air B&B ?
Ever think about collecting the finest
Lincoln cents, Indian cents and Flying Eagle cents ?

Im buying Roman Aurei now, its really the best.

https://www.sixbid.com/en/roma-numismatics-ltd/7787/the-g-t-collection-of-the/6355248/vitellius-av-aureus-rome-late?term&orderCol=starting_price&orderDirection=desc&priceFrom&displayMode=large&auctionSessions=&sidebarIsSticky=false

https://www.sixbid.com/en/roma-numismatics-ltd/7787/roman-imperial/6355336/domitian-av-aureus-rome-ad?term&orderCol=starting_price&orderDirection=desc&priceFrom&displayMode=large&auctionSessions=&sidebarIsSticky=false

Nice!

AUandAG

China squashed Ma's ANT IPO......it's a no go ipo.

bob

Zoins

@privaterarecoincollector said:

Im buying Roman Aurei now, its really the best.

How do you think the upside of the Roman Aurei compare to the Brasher?

privaterarecoincollector

@Zoins said:

@privaterarecoincollector said:

Im buying Roman Aurei now, its really the best.

How do you think the upside of the Roman Aurei compare to the Brasher?

If you want upside you have to buy ANT

privaterarecoincollector

or airbnb

Desert Moon

@ffcoins said:

@spacehayduke said:

While I commend your democratic outlook, it shows an ignorance of China and Chinese companies. A Brasher doubloon is not subject to corrupt “government insight,” nor revelations of cooking its books (a la Luckin and a very long list of other companies over the past decade plus), nor is it enmeshed and trying to function in an inherently corrupt, dictatorial system (a la ANT and BABA). It blows me away that anyone would sink money into a Chinese venture at this point, but I guess greed is blinding.

Brasher doubloon for me, any day.

Chinese mega-companies are no more corrupt than those here in the US. We can debate the merits of the US and Chinese governments to infinity. What we are talking about here instead is which is a better investment. When the IPO for ANT is rescheduled and implemented, no question it will be something to get in on. Brasher doubloons are very likely to not go up in value in multiples over decades, ANT likely will. Heck my BABA stock is up 300% in just a few years........

It blows me away that anyone would not sink money into a Chinese venture at this point, I guess xenophobia is blinding.

ANT for me, any day.

metalmeister

Why do Ant's never get sick? ...... they have ant-i-bodies. I'll take a look at ANT. Big NIO fan.

ffcoins

@spacehayduke said:

@ffcoins said:

@spacehayduke said:

While I commend your democratic outlook, it shows an ignorance of China and Chinese companies. A Brasher doubloon is not subject to corrupt “government insight,” nor revelations of cooking its books (a la Luckin and a very long list of other companies over the past decade plus), nor is it enmeshed and trying to function in an inherently corrupt, dictatorial system (a la ANT and BABA). It blows me away that anyone would sink money into a Chinese venture at this point, but I guess greed is blinding.

Brasher doubloon for me, any day.

Chinese mega-companies are no more corrupt than those here in the US. We can debate the merits of the US and Chinese governments to infinity. What we are talking about here instead is which is a better investment. When the IPO for ANT is rescheduled and implemented, no question it will be something to get in on. Brasher doubloons are very likely to not go up in value in multiples over decades, ANT likely will. Heck my BABA stock is up 300% in just a few years........

It blows me away that anyone would not sink money into a Chinese venture at this point, I guess xenophobia is blinding.

ANT for me, any day.

The regulatory environment and ensuing corporate culture are pretty significant factors in the risk assessment of investments. It's not only potential upside that you need to consider, it's potential downside as well. If you think that’s xenophobic, then I don’t know how to help you.

scubafuel

Easy @ffcoins. Your points have merit, but your tone could use some work. Maybe try editing your last sentence. It's worthless as-is.

The opportunity in ANT, BABA etc is obvious, but I wouldn't be sanguine about assuming that the Chinese will be keen to offer the lions-share of it to foreigners behind computer screens. Investing in other countries is hard because we don't speak the "language". Meaning things can look cheap because we price in our own regulatory system and protections and forget that they don't apply elsewhere.

Everyone looks for the sucker, and that attitude has nothing to do with China. Remember what happened to Icelandic banks when they saw a major opportunity in US financial products? US bankers happily sold them packaged, gold-plated garbage (backed by US credit ratings agencies) which promptly exploded when 2008 rolled around.

Desert Moon

@ffcoins said:

The regulatory environment and ensuing corporate culture are pretty significant factors in the risk assessment of investments. It's not only potential upside that you need to consider, it's potential downside as well. If you think that’s xenophobic, then I don’t know how to help you.

These issues are as associated with US companies as those from China. There is always risk any time you buy stock. How about TSLA? Buy it today and there is huge risk, and huge potential upside and downside. No different than any company stock from China. The xenophobia comes from your other comments to my first post.

Corporate culture? Jack Ma has shown to run his companies in a way that is very similar to many major companies in the US including growing into new markets and areas of capitalization. The Brasher doubloon? Not so much, nothing to offer the investor in terms of growth, just static speculation on someone else coming along who may pay more for it.

ffcoins

@spacehayduke said:

@ffcoins said:

The regulatory environment and ensuing corporate culture are pretty significant factors in the risk assessment of investments. It's not only potential upside that you need to consider, it's potential downside as well. If you think that’s xenophobic, then I don’t know how to help you.

These issues are as associated with US companies as those from China. There is always risk any time you buy stock. How about TSLA? Buy it today and there is huge risk, and huge potential upside and downside. No different than any company stock from China. The xenophobia comes from your other comments to my first post.

Corporate culture? Jack Ma has shown to run his companies in a way that is very similar to many major companies in the US including growing into new markets and areas of capitalization. The Brasher doubloon? Not so much, nothing to offer the investor in terms of growth, just static speculation on someone else coming along who may pay more for it.

Good luck building out your portfolio

RedCopper

If you are a student of History
and Numismatics and have passion
there is really no choice between
owning the finest Brasher Dubloon
and any IPO. The Brasher wins easily
Hands Down . There will always be new IPO’s but there is only one
Gem Brasher Dubloon

MrEureka

@Zoins said:

@MsMorrisine said:
Finest-known 1787 Brasher doubloon from Partrick Collection to return to market

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/finest-known-1787-brasher-doubloon-from-partrick-collection-to-return-to-market

When was the Garrett-Patrick specimen graded to NGC MS65*, becoming the finest known certified 1878 Brasher, Punch on Wing?

Back in 2016, the Perschke-Crum NGC MS63 was known as the "finest known certified 1787 Brasher, Punch on Wing doubloon".

https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/brasher-doubloon-former-owner-walter-perschke-dies.html

The Perschke Brasher was never the finest known. It was the finest certified. But anyone who has seen the Garrett coin knew that it was the best.