CAC Reconsideration

Wahoo554

Please post if you have ever resubmitted a previously rejected coin to CAC for reconsideration (in the same holder as the prior submission) and received CAC approval on your subsequent attempt.

I’ve heard of many instances where coins were approved when resubmitted in new higher grade holders, etc., but that is not what I’m interested in. Please do not turn this thread into a platform for bashing CAC.

BAJJERFAN

I know he says that they don't automatically reject them and are always willing to give a coin another look. I've resubmitted at least 1 unintentionally, but never got a bump.

chesterb

This is a timely post...I'll let you know later this week/early next week. I'm going to resubmit about 4-5 that I think should have received a sticker tomorrow...all in the same holders.

Boosibri

JA will offer to take another look for sure, and he has offered to even pay for shipping in the past. But generally speaking the best I would expect is an explanation from JA on what he sees which caused him to deny the coin.

coinbuf

I have heard that it has happened, another Lincoln collector I know was successful once getting a green replaced with a gold. I have never tried it myself.

drddm

I’ve done it, successfully, on several occasions, always with a note asking that he reconsider the coin for a green sticker.

Dave

EScott83

Personally, no. I don't play the sticker game. I educate myself (and others) and collect coins, not opinions. But certainly in current times I'm the oddball. However for other purposes I do collect coins that have been rejected then "approved" while in the same holder. Therefore CAC is subjective, as is any TPG, except I believe that instead of the benefit of the law of averages of having a panel of opinions it's just one. What would be awesome for sticker collectors/sellers is if CAC posted a mood indicator!

DelawareDoons

I have resubmitted several and never had a sticker the second time through unless I provided documentation it was formerly stickered at that grade in another holder.

jdimmick

I have never tried it either, but on those comments that say cac doesnt matter, becuase they dont need a sticker to dictate whether a coin is solid for the grade, better than avg, etc, I couldnt agree more, I know a nice coin when I see one, however, the market in general sure cares a great deal.(especially on coins that count) and when you go to sell it, your best bet is to get it cac'd if possible

marcmoish

@chesterb said:
This is a timely post...I'll let you know later this week/early next week. I'm going to resubmit about 4-5 that I think should have received a sticker tomorrow...all in the same holders.

why not post the 4-5 pcs here so us experts (lol) can comment away?

chesterb

@marcmoish said:

@chesterb said:
This is a timely post...I'll let you know later this week/early next week. I'm going to resubmit about 4-5 that I think should have received a sticker tomorrow...all in the same holders.

why not post the 4-5 pcs here so us experts (lol) can comment away?

I don't need a bunch of so-called experts to tell me what is and isn't a nice coin!

Sandman70gt

@Boosibri said:
JA will offer to take another look for sure, and he has offered to even pay for shipping in the past. But generally speaking the best I would expect is an explanation from JA on what he sees which caused him to deny the coin.

I called customer service on a few coins I thought would sticker. I was told to resubmit, but You have to specify that you would like John to comment on those coins, to know why no beans.

PS: I guess we know now where the term "cool beans" came from

AlanSki

Yes, on my toned Norfolk about a week after he initially said no. Green beaned the second week.

Wahoo554

@AlanSki said:
Yes, on my toned Norfolk about a week after he initially said no. Green beaned the second week.

Nice. Did you include a note, or did you simply resubmit?

jesbroken

No, No chesterb, we were talking about the 4-5 coins you are sending back.
Jim

AlanSki

@Wahoo554 said:

@AlanSki said:
Yes, on my toned Norfolk about a week after he initially said no. Green beaned the second week.

Nice. Did you include a note, or did you simply resubmit?

A sticky note with "Really??" on the coin.

Collect4fun

As I understand, all coins will be reconsidered but they place a sticker on the back to notify them that the coin has been seen before. He will review coins and explain why they didn’t sticker if you ask. e.g. friction obverse, questionable color etc

marcmoish

Note to @chesterb sticky on those 4-5 pcs, each one needs to state "really?"

inside info, keep between us.

BryceM

I’ve asked several times and have been successful two or three times. I’d recommend including a note or talking to them before hand. A blind resubmission usually doesn’t work out. If there’s some legitimate reason you think a coin should pass, they’re always happy to listen and consider it.

PQueue

I had only 1 reconsider, submitted to CAC by my trusted dealer, & it stickered upon reconsideration. Backstory...

It was a Classic Head $5, 1836 PCGS MS- 62 with thick, dripping luster. Many professionals graded it as MS-63, so did I. I have never seen a Classic $5 graded below MS-64 with luster this good. We were shocked when it originally failed to sticker, was returned with explanation. We disagreed, so my dealer sent it back to JA. The coin was Gold sticker worthy, but, it came back with a Green bean. I was satisfied. The coin's merits were obvious.

JVC

Here is a coin that I requested JA reconsider. It failed a second time because JA thought it had been intentionally marked with someone's initials,

spacehayduke

1 or 2 times in about a dozen tries I have got the bean in round 2. Like previously said, you get specific feedback in round 2 as to why not. I appreciate that JA actually takes the time to do this, the info obtained is worth its weight in Os (heaviest metal in its native form

Best, SH

oih82w8

I sent in a cracked 1818 Half Dollar that was PCGS AU53 green beaned...came back as PCGS AU55...sent it to JA and was green beaned again. It does happen. You'll never know until you try.

Boosibri

@JVC said:

Here is a coin that I requested JA reconsider. It failed a second time because JA thought it had been intentionally marked with someone's initials,

Looks for the hidden “JVC” now

DollarAfterDollar

I've resubmitted 2 or 3 coins thru the years. None have ever been beaned. I should attach a note,. just never thought to do that.

Wahoo554

So from the above responses, it seems like it is a good idea to include a note if you know a coin has been previously rejected, but you think reconsideration is warranted. In situations where you are unsure whether a coin was previously submitted, I suppose the best bet is to hope that they were not? From what I’m hearing, it sounds like JA will give a second look to any previously rejected coin submitted, whether you include a note or not. But if it was previously rejected, I assume it is an uphill battle since the notation of prior rejection is likely to create a strong bias against stickering.

cameonut2011

I've had at least one or so bean on reconsideration after a failure. I never included a note. Same holder/serial number. He will give a coin a fresh look.

spacehayduke

@Wahoo554 said:
So from the above responses, it seems like it is a good idea to include a note if you know a coin has been previously rejected, but you think reconsideration is warranted. In situations where you are unsure whether a coin was previously submitted, I suppose the best bet is to hope that they were not? From what I’m hearing, it sounds like JA will give a second look to any previously rejected coin submitted, whether you include a note or not. But if it was previously rejected, I assume it is an uphill battle since the notation of prior rejection is likely to create a strong bias against stickering.

Yes, if I want feedback I supply a cover letter with the reconsideration, explanation for failure etc. Then he will put a sticker on the slab of why it failed if it does (like one I got simply with an arrow pointing to a tiny area in an obv field), or if you request it, I assume you can still call him these days and discuss the coins that failed.

HST, I have had a couple I have sent in 3 times, not requested feedback, and they failed all 3 times. I still can't see why, I guess on the 4th I need to request feedback........

But I have had others that switched slabs, switched to higher grades, failed at lower grades, passed at higher grades, passed at lower grades, failed at higher grades, and on and on. Just a subjective opinion at a single moment.........

Best, SH

ricko

@JVC.... Where are those initials?? I enlarged the picture - twice - and still do not see them.... I see the scratches by the second star to the right of the date, but they do not look intentional or like initials. Cheers, RickO

skier07

My suggestion is to include a note and ask him if he will provide an explanation or call you if he doesn’t think your coin is worthy of a sticker. I’ve had JA call me multiple times and I’ve learned a lot from these conversations and he will respectfully explain to you what his thinking is and will answer any other questions you may have on just about anything. I was intimidated the first time I spoke with him but he is a very easy person to have a conversation with and he is very humble.

SeattleSlammer

@ricko said:
@JVC.... Where are those initials?? I enlarged the picture - twice - and still do not see them.... I see the scratches by the second star to the right of the date, but they do not look intentional or like initials. Cheers, RickO

I can’t find them either ...

TexasAKHouston

Every coin I have ever sent to CAC for reconsideration has been rejected, including a PCGS gold coin and a PCGS Morgan that were both assigned a + grade by PCGS. The odds are very low that they will reverse a decision, it is almost automatically rejected in my opinion.

Aotearoa

@SeattleSlammer said:

@ricko said:
@JVC.... Where are those initials?? I enlarged the picture - twice - and still do not see them.... I see the scratches by the second star to the right of the date, but they do not look intentional or like initials. Cheers, RickO

I can’t find them either ...

I'm thinking "Carl Carlson"

DelawareDoons

@pluteus913 said:

@DelawareDoons said:
I have resubmitted several and never had a sticker the second time through unless I provided documentation it was formerly stickered at that grade in another holder.

I’ve heard of many instances where coins were approved when resubmitted in new higher grade holders, etc., but that is not what I’m interested in. Please do not turn this thread into a platform for bashing CAC.

Um, I love CAC so I have no idea what you are talking about. Might I suggest not being so hostile?

TexasAKHouston

Despite on my comment on reconsiderations, I would just like to say that I am a huge supporter of CAC. In fact, I was one of the first "advanced collector" members to gain CAC membership, way back in 2009 or whenever they had only been opened for a few months...

cheezhed

I just sent two coins back for another look. No note included. Several others sent in for first time as well same submission.

oreville

I once resubmitted the finest graded PCGS OGH G-04 1916-D mercury dime I ever saw with a green sticker (purchased at the 2010 Boston ANA show floor ) to request a gold sticker. I could not believe it did not get a gold sticker.

Even Laura Sperber used a term I never had heard of before to describe the slab. She called it a gem good.

JA looked at it and stated the only reason he did not grant a gold sticker was it was really a solid G-06 but he did not gold sticker for coins grading in the same Good range.
I responded by stating that coins graded AU-50 or AU-53 but that is really AU-55 or AU-58 can receive a gold sticker even though it was still in the AU range. Same for the MS graded range coins.

It received the gold sticker.

lkeigwin

@ricko said:
@JVC.... Where are those initials?? I enlarged the picture - twice - and still do not see them.... I see the scratches by the second star to the right of the date, but they do not look intentional or like initials. Cheers, RickO

My guess is your are correct, @ricko. At star 12. One initial on top of the other.

Big stretch, IMO. Maybe it's clearer with a loupe.
Lance.

CharlotteDude

It's happened, for sure.

Wahoo554

@oreville said:

I once resubmitted the finest graded PCGS OGH G-04 1916-D mercury dime I ever saw with a green sticker (purchased at the 2010 Boston ANA show floor ) to request a gold sticker. I could not believe it did not get a gold sticker.

Even Laura Sperber used a term I never had heard of before to describe the slab. She called it a gem good.

JA looked at it and stated the only reason he did not grant a gold sticker was it was really a solid G-06 but he did not gold sticker for coins grading in the same Good range.
I responded by stating that coins graded AU-50 or AU-53 but that is really AU-55 or AU-58 can receive a gold sticker even though it was still in the AU range. Same for the MS graded range coins.

It received the gold sticker.

Would love to see an image of this gem good dime.

astrorat

On my last submission to CAC, I gathered several Capped Bust halves that I was confident would have stickered when submitted originally (over the past half-dozen years or so). I resubmitted them as a separate submission in the same package as my submission of new coins. I wrote a letter explaining the coins were resubmissions and I would like for JA to please take another look and attached the letter to the resubmission.

I received notification today that 4 of the 14 CBHs I resubmitted "passed" and were given a sticker.

fathom

@chesterb said:

@marcmoish said:

@chesterb said:
This is a timely post...I'll let you know later this week/early next week. I'm going to resubmit about 4-5 that I think should have received a sticker tomorrow...all in the same holders.

why not post the 4-5 pcs here so us experts (lol) can comment away?

I don't need a bunch of so-called experts to tell me what is and isn't a nice coin!

You won't get the so-called ones, only "legitimate experts".

BryceM

I bought a coin from a dealer that he said had been green beaned previous to two or three regrade attempts. I bought it, submitted it, and got no sticker. I sent it back with a note and voila, green sticker. The dealer who provided the information is one who keeps his word.

scubafuel

Were you happy with that though? Coin approved on a technicality but not on its own merits?

“This is Kent Dorfman! He’s a legacy!”

Clackamas1

I have never gotten a bump. They are pretty solid. I have a 1911-D MS63 Indian $10 that I swear up and down is full gem, but 5 times to CAC and PCGS and no upgrade. I basically have been resigned to the fact I don't know what the F I am doing with $10 Indians.

astrorat

@astrorat said:
On my last submission to CAC, I gathered several Capped Bust halves that I was confident would have stickered when submitted originally (over the past half-dozen years or so). I resubmitted them as a separate submission in the same package as my submission of new coins. I wrote a letter explaining the coins were resubmissions and I would like for JA to please take another look and attached the letter to the resubmission.

I received notification today that 4 of the 14 CBHs I resubmitted "passed" and were given a sticker.

Update - I received a nice email sent on behalf of JA regarding why the other 10 resubmissions did not pass. While not a coin-by-coin rundown, the reason was many of them were perceived to have been cleaned in the past. As expected, original surfaces are important for CAC.

CommemDude

Since JA is not the only one who evaluates and stickers coins at CAC, how do you know to whom to address your plea for clemency? And I wonder if any coin can pass a second review by a hireling if JA gave it a thumbs down the first time.

spacehayduke

@astrorat said:

Update - I received a nice email sent on behalf of JA regarding why the other 10 resubmissions did not pass. While not a coin-by-coin rundown, the reason was many of them were perceived to have been cleaned in the past. As expected, original surfaces are important for CAC.

90% of the time it is the 'cleaned in the past' failure. My experience is that this is either obvious on a given coin you send in, or on the edge and a fairly subjective call. After a while and many submissions, it becomes easier to make the call yourself on this issue and how CAC will deal with it.

Best, SH

astrorat

@CommemDude said:
Since JA is not the only one who evaluates and stickers coins at CAC, how do you know to whom to address your plea for clemency? And I wonder if any coin can pass a second review by a hireling if JA gave it a thumbs down the first time.

Here is what I did ... not that I have any particular "in" at CAC.

I sent two submissions at the same time. One submission was a "first time" (from me) submission and the other was a submission of coins for reconsideration. I wrote a brief, polite letter, using proper English, complete sentences, with a salutation and signature ... you know ... a letter. (That sentence is for the teachers here who suffer through stunted, text-message inspired, communication misadventures from our students).

I explained the coins were submitted previously and did not meet or exceed CAC's standards. I asked if JA would take another look and let me know the reasons why the coins upon reconsideration would not sticker.

Following the completion of the evaluation, one of folks at CAC emailed me and stated that JA did not have comments on the coins individually (which is understandable since I resubmitted 14), but the general reason why the others (10 of the 14) did not sticker was a past cleaning.

This gives me a good starting point for studying when the coins return. A remarkable service CAC provides to the hobby is the ability for collectors to submit coins and only pay a fee if the coins are stickered. For coins failing to sticker, you are only out postage and the minimal processing fee. IMO, the astute collector will recognize the immense learning opportunity irrespective if your coins sticker or not.

MFeld

@CommemDude said:
Since JA is not the only one who evaluates and stickers coins at CAC, how do you know to whom to address your plea for clemency? And I wonder if any coin can pass a second review by a hireling if JA gave it a thumbs down the first time.

I seriously doubt that it makes any difference to whom the plea is addressed. Because ultimately, I don't think the coin would be awarded a sticker without JA's consent.