Will Classic Commemorative Coins Become Popular Once Again?
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You may have seen this in our September/October Rare Coin Market Report, if you haven't had the chance yet, we would definitely encourage you to check out Mike Garofalo's in depth take on classic commemorative coins.
Below are a couple excerpts:
"In this writer’s opinion, one of the most interesting and most maligned series of coins is the United States Classic Commemorative Coin Series issued between 1892 and 1954. It is a very interesting series in that, unlike most other series of U.S. coins – Lincoln Cents, Morgan Dollars, Standing Liberty Quarters, etc. – every coin is different. The commemorative coins were designed by dozens of different designers and the series spanned more than half a century, so many different artistic styles are represented."
"There is an old Wall Street adage that is sometimes attributed to Financier Russell Sage. The question was once asked, 'How do you get rich living here in America?' The reply was only five simple words: 'Buy Straw Hats in December.' The implied meaning was that surely summer will come along and the time to sell them will be when everyone wants them again.
NOW is an exceptional time to start building a PCGS Registry Set of Classic Commemoratives and to begin really appreciating the beauty of these timeless, magnificent designs."
For the full article: https://www.pcgs.com/news/will-classic-commemorative-coins-become-popular-once-again
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Comments
I personally do not belive so. Obviously the really pretty/high grade ones will be collected, but I do not believe that lot's people are going to be doing full sets of them anytime soon, unless coin collecting gets a massive boom (which is doubtful).
Coins which look like that will never be unpopular, its the rest you need to worry about.
No. The series has been dead for thirty years except for truly exceptional specimens. The truly exceptional specimens probably make up less than 1% of the total coins available. While there were many issues that have low mintages the survival rates for the series are very high.
If you want to play the registry game it is going to cost a great deal of money to go after the truly exceptional specimens.
No. How are we supposed to CRH commems???
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No, although a 50 coin type set in a Capital Plastics holder is a sight to see. These are slowly being lost to history.
While I'd like to do a PCGS registry for both my sets it's cost prohibited to crossover all my fatty NGC slabs to modern PCGS slabs.
I think they will. When? Not sure, but there are some really neat and attractive coins in the series. Some like the Washington Carvers and Columbian will never bring much premiums than what they do now but watch out for the other ones like Pan Pacific, Hudson, Connecticut, etc. etc.
I really liked Mikes report and he has a lot of good points.
They are probably one of best things for your money right now a real bargain in my view. Just take the PCGs market report compare total graded for a commem issue with various generic dollars and walkers. I like classic commems in MS64-66. I especially like them in $50 - $300 range which covers what you would spend at many entertainment / sports venues that money gone forever. You don’t need overkill fill the hole.
However as far as upward movement it will take more RCI players who’s Pop appears to be shrinking.
But if believe nowhere to go but up / Love acquiring these go for it.
A really good guide on Classic Commems imo is Harry Laibstains 1994 book. I like his everything on one page format (for each issue). Then w that overview you can analyze in CF or research CPG.
For my inventory I just list by date / issue grade, cost, CPG,TPG MV on excel. If Pcgs coins their inventory mgr / registry app does a lot of work for you.
maybe I'm interpreting the replies wrong, but I think Classic Commemorative Coins are both popular and doing well --- if --- one of your criteria ISN"T prices rising and going higher, higher and higher. the problem this series is and always will be challenged by is the number of survivors. ironically, it was designed like that since the coins weren't really meant to circulate.
looked at another way, there are plenty of collectors of these coins, there are just too many coins to feel pressure for prices to rise.
Popular at the right price, one reason dealers often don't pay all that close to Greysheet on them unless they are somehow special. Pan Pacs, VTs, CTs, and many others have popular designs. Eye appeal sells. https://coinweek.com/us-coins/is-the-vintage-commemorative-coin-market-sunk/
Examples like these will be popular with the commem collectors. Dealers won't pay up buy others wanting them for sets will. Then you have the old holder collectors and color guys.
Examples like these will be popular with the commem collectors.
with the general query about commems and popularity, I don't think coins like these are what that's really about. it's more about the hundreds-of-thousands of raw coins and brilliant coins in grades MS64 and lower.
They remain popular mong those that appreciate art, history and design. The story is different for those looking at commems from merely an investment perspective. There are many attractive designs that survived in an equally attractive state of preservation.
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I'm sure they will, right after I sell out of all those straw hats I bought in December.
I enjoyed the PCGS article . . . and I am sure our Mod will see the thank you posted here. I completed a 50 pc. for the Registry and was able to get it into the top 20, but I can't play in the deep end of the pool. I did the 64-67 thing, averaging 65.1 for the set, and ironically, the majority in old holders which ended up being sold to the PCGS grader who did mostly halves back in the old holder day. He jumped on them . . .and I am sure my 65s are no longer in 65 holders . . . .
Drunner
They show up in half dollar boxes, both classic and modern commems. You'd be surprised.
The only thing holding me back from putting together a set of MS 65-67 commems is the required storage space. I'm already at 5 large safe deposit boxes, and I can't visit my coins often enough. If it's not obvious, I miss the days when you could fit 5-10 times as many coins in the same space using albums instead of slabs, and you could view an entire set just by flipping a few pages. Pretty sure I'm not the only one who has chosen to collect fewer coins now that slabs are "required".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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It's important to know what popular means here. Commemoratives are way more popular than 2 cent pieces, trimes, double dimes, colonials, territorials, patterns, medals and tokens. They are also more popular the gold and lowballs.
Interestingly, lowballs are as popular as gold!
The way history is being erased by some in this county today and the lack of history being taught in schools leads me to think that classic commemorative coins are doomed to continue a long dark spell before being cast aside altogether once the current older generation passes.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I put together a set representing the states I have lived in (nine)... not all had a commemorative, so had to put in a state token. Some are expensive, even in mid to lower grades - or at least were when I did it (mid to late nineties). Cheers, RickO
I finally got around to reading the entire article and I really like the history provided by Mike Garofalo.
The emphasis on original holders back in the 1980s is nice. I'm not sure of the increase in slabbing has changed the demand for those items, but there do seem to be much less excess of those on the market than the coins themselves.
It's great to know things changed mid-way through Long Beach in 1989, but I'm still not sure what caused the change or tipped the scale. That would be interesting to know.
The one thing that is odd about the article is that the indications of coins selling for 90% off their highs and being underappreciated isn't consistent with the example coins shown. The example coins are not 90% off their highs and I would venture are even higher than they were in 1989.
That's an interesting thought. I've thought the same thing. I have many raw tokens and medals and it's amazing how many you can fit into a box vs slabs. I've had a hard time with albums because I used the 2x2 pages and the flips would always slide out causing a mess.
Current slabs are designed to hold $50 gold slugs which most people don't have. Given that we now have oversized slabs, perhaps we can move slugs to oversized slabs and create a slab for dollar or smaller coins, like the original ANACS white holders. Those seem positively small now. Going even smaller, I've recently gotten some coins in smaller holders, like ones designed to hold half dollars and smaller. Not that people may want different sized slabs, but I think a half dollar / quarter or smaller slab would be nice for saving space.
I also really like Capital Plastics holders which can hold a lot of coins close together.
Low mintage , Historic. What's not to like? All that is needed is a well known high net worth individual to comment on how incredible commemorative coin collecting is and boom!
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Today’s modern commemoratives have pretty much the same messages or lower than the classic ones, and the dollars are now pure silver. I know some people are crazy about the designs but not all the classics are winners either
It's already booming for high net worth individuals. Certain segments of commemoratives are very strong now.
I think the issue is with the less stellar coins.
The issue with mintage is that it's low but perhaps not low enough. For example, there are over 150 Oregon halves on eBay now. On the other hand exonumia like tokens and medals are doing really well, and many times there are 0 of those items on eBay.
It depends on what popular means. I 100% agree that coins with magnificent toning like that Oregon trail coin you're showing will NEVER go out of style. I believe they will all come back in due time. Some designs nicer that the others but all in all, yes I do believe they'll come back.
This discussion came up about a month ago, and I'll repeat what I said then. It was the modern commems that got me into the classics, and not because of a perceived need to expand the commems I had into the classics. It was because the modern designs were mostly awful that I decided to turn my back on them and collect the classics instead, which by contrast have some of the most stunning designs of all US coinage. I followed Swiatek's advice and collected them because I liked them. Perhaps a comparison of the artistry of new and old might be what turns people toward them. The latest commemorative dollar ~pinched off~ produced by the mint will set you back $70, and many people will buy it while on auto-pilot. Several classics can be had for $70, and many more can be had for under twice that right now, and allow the buyer to enjoy better artwork while selecting something because they like it and the quality of the coin is good, not because the mint says it's time to buy something.
People might not be putting together sets, but the most attractive designs, such as the 150 Oregon Trails currently on eBay, are very popular and collectors are happily buying them, even entry level coins, and the entry level collectors will be driving the future market for the mainstream coins. The superstar coins are in a world of their own, and are doing quite well, but they are few and far between.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
in any case ill get some that i dont have now. im still happy with it, fwiw
As a group classic commemoratives tend to have better designs than the modern commemoratives for sure. The only exception is the 2014 baseball and the 1986 and 1988 $5 gold pieces. But I can never bring myself to complete a set of classic commemoratives as there are designs that I think are distasteful, historically inaccurate and or unnecessarily expensive (Old Spanish Trail) which I would never buy, and at the same time be frustrated by an empty hole in my set. Personally, I'd settle for building a set of nice Oregon Trail commems or a set of Pan Pac coins without the $50 coins or perhaps build a Laura Gardin Fraser set.
The examples in the Legend auction appeared to do well, at least against estimates, especially those with colorful toning (so what else is new). Seemed to support the idea that the "best" examples still have a strong following, as in other series. As far as more common issues/average gem coins, I rather doubt they will come back. Many are uninspired, unattractive and of dubious historical significance, so collecting a full set isn't very appealing. I would think however, that better designs should at least hold their values. I recently put a partial set together of Oregon, California, Lincoln, Hawaii, Civil War, Texas, etc. in 65/66, but no expensive toners.
You're quite right. There are quite a few eBay sales of Oregon halves:
I wonder if this is a case of being generations removed from the Commemorative Shenanigans of the 1930s, but some of the stories of how these came to be are comically absurd enough to actually add to what limited appeal they might have. The Spanish Trail is my favorite example of this. The coin design is mostly nonsense, showing a map from Jacksonville to Hoffecker's coin shop in El Paso on one side using the Spanish Trail highway (now US90/I-10), and an unrelated reference to an explorer who wasn't anywhere near that road on the other.
Somewhere I have a sketch of my design for a coin commemorating Hernando de Soto's discovery of how to get to Max B Mehl's shop in Fort Worth from Duluth using I-35. Map on one side, DeSoto hood ornament on the other.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I think it’s would be great to have a coin to Max Mehl’s shop! Perhaps Dan @dcarr can make one?
I don’t know anything about Hoffecker. Was he famous in his day?
If the pieces haven't rebounded in 30 years, the coins may never rebound in our lifetime!
Influential collector in El Paso, amateur coin designer.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I didn't realize how influential he was. Was he a Bob Simpson of his day? I did a quick search and found that 2 of his coins ended up with Simpson:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1045193/lyman-william-hoffeckers-coins#latest
I sold all of my classics several years ago, so yes, they will be very popular very soon.
I don't know. They still seem fairly popular. I meet more collector's that have at least one classic commemorative than I meet that have most 19th century types.
Say what you want about their prices, but they're not obscure.
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They'll never see the highs of the past. I do have a few in my collection. I enjoy the history/stories associated with them and some do have low mintage numbers, i.e.,
1939 P/D/S - 3,000 of each
Mark Goodman image
“Popular“ and high(er) prices don’t necessarily go hand in hand. I believe that classic commemoratives are fairly popular, but that (other than for special examples) there’s adequate supply to meet the demand.
Were they really that much more popular in 1989, or were there fewer available at a time when the overall market was far stronger? My guess is some combination of the latter.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There was another thread on this same series recently. My answer now is the same as then:
There are far better coins for the same or similar money, both in US coinage but especially from elsewhere. This isn't the 1980's much less the 1960's when collectors were limited in what they could collect due to communication limitations. Both the short and extended sets require substantial outlays to most collectors.
The coins in this series are common or very common, except with a particular "eye appeal" or in some arbitrary TPG holder. The mintages are low relative to circulating coinage but that's not a relevant comparison. The survival rate in "high quality" is high.
It's debatable how appealing collectors find the themes or artistic quality but the evidence seems to indicate less than previously due to more alternatives..
There is no need for any collector to buy the entire series especially when they don't even like all of even most of the coins that much. Just buy the ones you like and ignore the rest.
I'm thinking about a Civil War-themed subset. Have the Gettysburg and Stone Mountain, and eyeing a left-facing Grant. That would leave the Illinois-Lincoln, Antietam and modern CW commemorative to round it out. Am I omitting any?
RE: eyeing a left-facing Grant
Grant faces right on the 1922 issues.
@WCC said "There are far better coins for the same or similar money, both in US coinage but especially from elsewhere." and "There is no need for any collector to buy the entire series especially when they don't even like all of even most of the coins that much. Just buy the ones you like and ignore the rest."
These are perfectly reasonable statements as one person's point of view. However, let me comment on why I've assembled a complete (silver) set, with many duplicates, and think it's a wonderful series to collect.
I'm not looking at each individual coin as a beautiful artistic statement or as honoring a remarkable anniversary or historical event. Many are beautiful. Many do point to extremely interesting history. To me, there is a kind of "meta" reason to like the series. The period 1892 - 1954 is a remarkable one in American and world history. The classic commemoratives say a lot about our culture, our self-image, our emergence on the world stage, our aspirations and conflicts. We started with the Columbian World Exposition, coped with a Great Depression (and the large number of issues in 1936) and ended with the Civil Rights movement and the Cold War.
Collectively, the issues say a lot about commerce and our economic history and social history; about our evolving perspectives on art. It's of course totally fine to collect only the ones you want -- whether that is all of them, or just a few that you find artistically pleasing, or some subset centered around a theme. For me, however, even the ones that might be viewed as 'clunkers' by some form an important and often charming part of the set.
Popular, yes. As valuable as in the past, no.
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@Higashiyama, I was writing in the context of my interpretation of the OP. Invariably whenever anyone asks whether a coin or series will become more "popular", it's always asking whether it will sell for higher prices. There is no reason to expect this to happen for the series as a whole longer term, partly for the reasons I gave and others which someone else can provide.
They're beautiful and can be inexpensive in less than MS grades.
The insane rise on prices from the US Mint certainly makes a low budget collector like me view other options.
I likely will start now.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
There have been a number posts, including mine, discussing what popular means.
From Mike Garofalo's article, "popular once again" may mean reattaining it's level of being the most in-demand coins:
Does anyone know why they began to tank in the middle of the Long Beach show? The timing is very interesting.