Time for another leg up in silver?
cladking
Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
I think this one will take us to about $40 before a correction.
Tempus fugit.
1
cladking
Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Starting out the week pretty well so far....
smack before $30
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I'm hopeful but also expecting a couple more smackdowns before $30
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
I expect a lot of the smacks for a while to be smack higher.
I expect most shorts to capitulate by winter.
We'll see and I've called 8 of the last 2 bull markets and 2 of the last 8 bear markets right on the money.
The price is fine just where it is. Absolutely wonderful to be dumping this gutter metal, with a profit even.
If they are successful in manipulating it higher I won't complain. There is something rather glorifying about leaving the gutter and becoming a king. Rgds!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Yeah, heigh ho silver, awaaaaaay!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In the long term (80- 100 yrs) I don't expect any metal to do well other than tin and maybe molybdenum, But over the short term (5 yrs) there's a very good case for somewhat higher gold and sharply higher silver. The world and country have to work through the covid mess, failed educational system and concentration of wealth in the hands of those causing most of the problems. I don't know how our problems are going to work out any more than anyone else but it's quite obvious raising interest rates didn't work and will never work until most of the debt is repudiated. This and a FED that wants higher inflation suggests there will be gasoline poured on the fires until it eventually ignites. In five years we should have $4000 gold in inflation adjusted dollars and a much smaller ratio to silver.
I was just coming here to post a question...is silver starting it's next leg up??
Looks like maybe. I sold last time at about 45. this time I think I'll start selling at 35 and ease my way up...
That's my plan. Now if the charts will just comply.
VXSLV 60.37 4.01
CBOE Silver ETF Volatility index
I'm thinking so.
"You better stop, look around
Here it comes, here it comes, here it comes, here it comes
Here comes your nineteenth nervous breakdown"
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@derryb .... Wow... Just kids....and still out there performing now.....Cheers, RickO
The gold-silver ratio has been expanding (off and on) relentlessly since the 1980 manic peak when it was about 17. This wasn't far from the supposed 16-1 "historical" ratio which was nothing more than government price fixing.
Since 1980, the ratio has contracted when both increase noticeably and expanded when both fall noticeably. At the March low in silver, it hit a record (to my recollection) of about 144-1. Even with a 100%+ run-up in silver, it's still in the high 70s (versus 38-1 at the 2011 peak).
My explanation for it? Silver has effectively lost it's monetary status while gold hasn't. I presume many reading my post disagree with this but it's a much better reason than the one many of them believe.
As for gold reaching $4000 adjusted for price changes in five years, if it does, it will be even more relatively overpriced versus practically everything than it is now. Compare it to the prices of what anyone buys (such as the median priced house or car) and you will see what I mean. The only time it was more overpriced than now was during the run ups to the 1980 and 2011 peaks.
As relatively overpriced as it is now, I think it will sell for a price such as yours later, but not indefinitely.
I believe gold has mostly lost its status as money.
But all things have value that is as "good as gold" and gold's value is determined in part by people who still believe it is money. Silver has lost almost all of this value as money.
But silver is far more useful than gold and is actually rarer in terms of the ability for anyone to acquire large amounts of it. Gold exists in huge warehouses and silver does not. It has always been my contention that gold and silver will continue to have their demand as money erode and that silver will supplant gold as a store of value because of its usefulness.
Obviously, technology will step in at some point and make this equation far more complex. Silver exists in the ocean at a 2 to 1 ratio to gold and in the "accessible" planets and asteroids probably at a 100: 1 ratio. Some ocean deposits are likely to be recoverable within 25 years.
As always the future remains unpredictable but in the next five years there might be a major shift in perspective. This goes many times over if some of these new high tech needs for silver require significant amounts.
I've been more or less subscribed to the idea of silver taking off. Not many right now can afford much. Our customers are basically all business owners. This is bad.
Our specialty isnt as recession proof as gold but jeez it's close. So this is really weird to see. We have overlap in medical and agricultural/environmental. Those are very popular things with very wide audiences and we are thankful to be open.
People are scamming the $3-$5 stuff. Our food items have been sold out. We have requests for mushrooms that don't start growing for 2 months. My foraging services are booked for the season. People are broke and hungry. Those with disposable incomes are hungry and stocking up.
The window is closing for silver the worse this gets. If there was ever a time, it's now. Some people are so unaware of the world around them that it'll take fractional silver to convince them metal is worth it. People will be paying $150/oz but 20 bucks at a time, thanking their dealer for amazing prices.
Wait until we get a wild swing again and I will see you all on the moon. It's stupidly clear the number on a ticker is what drives the market not availability or jesus even popularity or quality. These prices are not a reflection of reality. Very many things right now are facing a reckoning or about to be. I fear people not taking this seriously is gonna be the biggest yet. And why I think silver is gonna explode in the next 6 to 12 months.
We had a half gallon of milk show up today for grocery day. The 8lbs of chicken and steaks/burger meat, eggs, big milk jugs, canned meat, canned fruit and some breads were all unavailable. Be ready for surprises. It's not gonna suddenly just start getting better or easier.
Azurscens...do you live in South Sudan or Burundi?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I have no doubt it's a great time to be young. My only advantage was that I used to be able to smell Gems and silver from miles away. There was no certainty I could afford them when I got there. Now everything is dirt cheap and they put pictures right on the net. Then when you go to sell you can usually get close to full value just by listing it. I also have to imagine the competition with other young people isn't even as stiff as it as with boomers.
Somewhere along the line most markets were taken over by inertia and the status quo. Capital once was valuable and now they want to steal it right along with your interest. The problem with central planning and both supply and demand being set by committee rather than individuals is nobody notices when fundamental forces combine to change things until it's too late. You can keep prices the same forever but eventually individuals will change their behavior and supplies will still be cyclical and then you can't any longer. Our leaders believe there exists infinite ability to print as much money as necessary to support government monopolies (too big to fail) and prop up bubbles that can't even be seen until they implode.
The future is always hard to predict but generally things will return to average. Pendulums go too far and swing back even as entire generations and powerful forces work to keep them up in the air. Everything made by man and all of reality are intimately interconnected while the future results from things that haven't happened yet. All we can say now is there are a lot of pendulums that look more like levitating megaliths.
I'd be interested in some elaboration on your thoughts here. Are you talking about how easy it is to get deals on eBay and that average selling prices on many coins is increasing? I see common date Ikes wholesaling for $3 and it's obvious that there is real demand and supplies on many things lack the depth that existed only a few years ago. I read your recent (now closed) thread but didn't comment.
I believe the relative rarity and usefulness of silver is key to driving demand. The low prices are allowing people with little money to acquire it. Someone once told me he bought gold instead of silver because he couldn't get nearly as much silver in the same safety deposit box. I asked him what the ratio would get to before he changed his mind. There are a lot of people in the world and not much silver.
Zimbabwe perhaps
The relative price between the two isn't due to the utility. It is predominantly psychological. This should be-evident since both can be used for most if not all of the same applications where to my knowledge, one isn't noticeably more effective than the other. Gold is also a lot more common than platinum and palladium. The reason gold isn't as useful as silver under your definition is because it is a lot more expensive. If it were a lot cheaper, it would be used more in industry.
The most evident difference between the two is gold's continued usage as a reserve asset by central banks. Financially this matters, a lot.
It's also a much more practical store of value both due to it's better liquidity (much lower buy-sell spreads) and higher unit value. Most people (even the "mass affluent") can easily store most or all of their liquid wealth with gold in a briefcase. They can't even come close to carrying the equivalent value in silver if they own any meaningful assets.
Given what'/s happened in other assets and asset classes, what you infer is possible but silver isn't exactly cheap historically now either, not since the run up in March. It's cheap versus gold but not a lot of other things.
A barrel of oil is real cheap right now, especially versus both metals. Unfortunately, it's not practical to store it, and it can only be owned through paper substitutes which are all subject to default or bankruptcy.
not to those who trade dollars for it.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I think I understand what gold is,
But would benefit from a few dozen posts containing different opinions of the definitions of Status and Money.
Thanks in advance! 😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Money is that specific thing which a self-identified group of humans collectively deem of value relative to goods and services.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
gold is good insurance against bad money
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Money is any object, concept, life force, or energy phenomenon, or other existential occurrence that consiously self-identifies as money.
It is not for me or you to define any other money but ourselves Only the self-described money may express his/her/its/they/their/xhas feelings and experiences, as to the extent of moneyness.
Even the very question utself may be perceived as somewhat offensive and threatening. One might consider being very careful and respectful when discussing this subject, if at all.
Indeed!!!
Back in one of the other incarnations of Zimbabwe's hyperinflation the people rejected the new batch of currency with more zeroes on it and with the aid of discarded plates continued using the old currency as money!
"Money" is wholly psychological just as is the value of gold. If people quit believing in gold it will have no value. Of course this can't happen soon because many people still believe. A paradigm shift can occur but gold going to nothing or even lower (like oil) can not happen.
I believe a good system would issue a currency that's like stock and would even pay a tiny dividend. As the commonweal increased more money could be issued to accommodate it. Such a system would inspire great confidence making most panics impossible and thing like bond bubbles could never form.
"oil went below zero"::
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-price-explainer/why-brent-oil-wont-follow-u-s-wti-futures-below-zero-idUSKCN2232AE
oil wasn't worth less than $0, WTI was... and what made it go below zero... at that one point in time... was due to a couple of factors
Brent was worth more than $0. (also see below) So, it wasn't "oil" in general.
Had one the ability to cheaply move oil from the WTI delivery point to the Brent delivery point, then neither would be worthless. Had there been adequate storage at the WTI delivery point, then WTI futures that day would have been above $0. see above in underline.
also:
https://globalnews.ca/news/6845353/coronavirus-oil-prices-drop-below-zero/
Someone said oil in glut went to a value below zero dollars per barrel because of time, space, and human brain effort and attention to deal with it, but I didn't understand the definitions of Time, Space, and Work, can someone help explain, thanks
Ps, same issue with lemons last year, couldn't give them away fast enough without going to more than putting a big basket out front saying Free.
This year, it will be blood oranges.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
make a blood orange juice stand out front, sell it for 1964 half dollars.
blood orange porn please
This isn't really true. There are applications that gold would suffice in industrial applications and would be used more (obviously) if it were cheaper but most of the things silver is used for are unique to silver and it can not be substituted. Obviously there's always a trade off and if silver were a million dollars an ounce there would be substitutes. But this is key; in most applications the cost of silver would be nominal even at far higher prices so there would be no substitution. It really doesn't much matter to Ford Motor if a car has 3c worth of silver in it or $30 worth. "frivolous" uses of silver would disappear but demand would not be dramatically affected. Silver is quite unique in many ways. It is the only complex element with its outer electron orbit full. It is the best reflector and conductor and it appears in the highest temperature superconductor. Its microbial properties are among the best.
There will continue to be new and exciting technological advances made possible because of its existence. Aggregate demand will probably continue to increase for the foreseeable future. It's unlikely that production can be increased substantially for decades and, indeed, if the prices of base metals lag then production will plummet because more than half of total silver production is a by-product of base metals (especially copper).
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
From last year. Will> @MsMorrisine said:
Look here for this in red
in a few weeks
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Let me repeat what I told you. The price of gold isn't based upon it's (relative) utility.
The price of silver isn't going to increase (substantially) either due to any supply deficit. Without looking it up, I can't tell you exactly for how long but there was one for years when it was much cheaper (80's and/or into the 90') and it didn't make any difference.
The price of both metals is substantially based upon financial speculation, especially in the recent past where practically everything (including coin collecting) that can be financialized has been. I'm still waiting for the current era of bubble finance (the worst ever by an order of magnitude with no close precedent) to end but it hasn't happened yet. But before either metal goes "to the moon", I expect the prices of practically all assets to crash.
I'm not referring to 25 or 100 years, as this isn't relevant to this topic. I'm referring to a time period that's actually meaningful to anyone who is looking to buy it or owns it now. Like five or at most 10. Even with the run up from $11+ to about $27 now, I don't think it's that expensive but I expect there will better entry points later and there has been a huge opportunity cost for those who have owned it long term, except in the last few months.
Silver costs the big miners on average about $11 per ounce to produce from rocks and dirt.
Barrick just reported gold costs under $900
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Their silver reserves are a mere 150 million ounces. Increasing the rate of production may or may not be possible. The estimate could be off and costs might change.
What counts is total supply and total demand. Cost of production only matters if the price comes to exceed it or drops below it.
That doesn't mean it never will be.
Almost all the "speculation" in silver is to hold the price artificially low by selling paper silver, selling the same silver to multiple parties, and claiming to store silver while charging to dust it while there is none. Banks have gone bust and depositor's silver stolen.
You call being long silver "speculative" but so is being long ANYTHING ELSE as well.
How much toilet paper is the average American buying?
I'd like to believe 25 or 100 years may be relevant to some young people reading this. If 100 years proves to be relevant odds are good silver played a role or they will have had grandkids.
No it doesn't. The relevant question is, will it happen in a timeframe which matters to anyone reading our post exchange? It's a lot more likely the price will increase first due to speculation than for this reason
That's what I keep hearing yet no one can prove it. This is what I was referring to in my first post here but was trying to avoid the subject. No one can prove that any manipulation has suppressed the price one cent. For every short in the futures market, someone is long. This paper trading can both increase and decrease prices, as increased short interest doesn't prove successful manipulation.
I'm aware of these allegations but even taking specific accounts at face value, it's absurd to imply (as some do) that this has successfully suppressed the price for decades, as I first heard it around 1985.
No one can prove that most buyers of the "paper" silver actually want the physical metal. Why would they? Only industrial users have an actual need for it and only metal advocates want to hold it in bar or coin form. Others may wish they had it later (to anticipate a subsequent rebuttal from someone here) but that's not relevant now or in the past.
The best evidence against this claim is the price of gold. Is silver a more important metal economically in the financial system? The answer is obviously not. And since it isn't, how does anyone explain the radical expansion of the gold-silver ratio? It would make a lot more sense to suppress gold and if this was attempted (as some claim occurred successfully), it sure has been a miserable failure since 1971.
It makes a lot more sense that those who hold these sentiments are just collectively financially irrelevant as a buyer of last resort. Otherwise, since it is supposedly so radically underpriced, they should have bought up every single ounce and there potentially should have been nothing to buy since this claim was first made, all the way back to the 1980's. That's what will happen with any actual price fixing where the supply cannot be controlled.
The second best evidence is what I wrote in my prior posts. Is silver really that underpriced versus the things people need to buy? What they want to buy? That's why I gave the example of homes and cars. Gold certainly isn't relatively underpriced versus most physical goods and many (though not all) services.
Silver's value proposition (now or since 1980) is much better but is it really that relatively underpriced? How many ounces has it normally required to buy the typical home or car? What about other things? Based upon what I know, more than the about 11,000 ounces it would take now with the median home value around $300,000 and silver at $27. It's also never been more overpriced versus a barrel of oil, which contrary to what some believe, isn't going to be legislated out of use any time soon either.
See what I mean? There is no absolute value but relative value cannot be completely ignored either. That's what metal advocates implicitly do, all the time. They act as if silver (and sometimes gold) are very underpriced even though the "terms of trade" for one of both don't remotely support this claim, being within the prior historical range or in the case of gold, far above it.
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Silver has been a terrible "investment (actually, speculation) for most of the last 39 years. Primary exceptions have been 2001-2008 and 2009-2011. Many other shorter intervals as well but it's still 46% lower in nominal terms since 1980 and 2011 peaks. Worse measured for price changes. I am looking to buy it just not now, as I expect the next major low several years away to be the last chance for a long time to buy it at a favorable price.
some are saying the same thing about cryptocurrency.
I heard silver is being used in electronics but is not easily recoverable like gold
CostCo, major city in central Oregon.
It is a bad time for grains, potatoes and corn here. It was already bad and then covid came and hit our rural farmers. Chicken processing plants in California got wiped out last week. None of this was a surprise to us because we pay attention to the world around us. It was just weird to finally see. We keep hearing about it from friends and neighbors and I guess it was finally our turn.
You guys are gonna starve and suffer when rationing comes to your city. It will be your hubris that literally buries you. I wouldn't be so cocky about banking on America's logistics and supply chain. Lots of you seem pretty confident as they dismantle the post office around us and threaten bullion dealers jobs.
But I must be in Africa right.. hah.. haha.. oh.
Are you talking about how easy it is to get deals on eBay and that average selling prices on many coins is increasing?
I've seen both fear buying and fear selling, which I think is what is driving the demand and driving the price. Spot being disconnected from reality is the equivalent of the stock market disconnected from the economy. You are right; balance will come when it thinks it needs to. I'm pretty sure this rumbling market of ravenous buyers is the resistance against those fixed prices and fake gold/silver. I don't think the fixers anticipated this much metal being consumed. I think this is why we are seeing what we are seeing.
I see common date Ikes wholesaling for $3 and it's obvious that there is real demand and supplies on many things lack the depth that existed only a few years ago.
Things seem a lot different than just six months ago. Just sold some blue pack ikes in capsules for $12, $15.
I believe the relative rarity and usefulness of silver is key to driving demand. The low prices are allowing people with little money to acquire it.
Fear. It's fear driving demand and everyone knows it and we can't talk about it because it gets too political. I recommend looking into the psychology of the fear based consumer. We adjusted for that in march/April and now have one of the most popular stores on Shopify.
I get written off a lot here because I know a lot of the stuff I subscribe to "sounds crazy". I just dont care anymore. I have an advanced degree, made more in the last year than the past 30, built my lab from scratch.. so.. I can't be that stupid. I spend my busy season getting paid handfuls of gold to go hiking and take pics.
The saddest part is boomers who consume their media like it was 1980, trust their government in totality, and expect the status quo.. well. How can you ever have progress with people like that? Why bother ever having ideas if everything stays the same? Why bother being an apologist for some other idiot? It baffles me.
Especially when it's people involved in wealth redistribution.. which is probably the most dangerous place for it. We are seeing people who are okay with stagnation because it's all they've ever known, and people with not enough metals trying to get in before it all falls apart.
There must be more like us. We have only bought outdoors gear and metals and food and supplies for 9 months. We can't be the only ones.
Derryb gonna have another one for his ignore list.
Nice presentation of rational and logical thoughts WCC.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
WCC- "No one can prove that most buyers of the "paper" silver actually want the physical metal. Why would they?"
I know a few people who are long paper silver. They buy it because they trust the system to give them their profits no matter what happens to the price and they believe the price will go up. Some alternate between long and short. But they don't want to store silver and incur the costs of that storage. Safety deposit boxes are expensive and moving silver is work.
And you're exactly right; for every short there's a long and this is EXACTLY the problem. Only a very few entities own almost all of the short positions and these entities will dissolve if the price goes up too fast or too far. They will dissolve because their entire net worth won't cover their losses. Nobody is going to step in and bail them out unless they are "too big to fail". What about all the "physical" silver that's supposed to be in storage for which longs are paying annual dusting fees? If it's not really there, has multiple owners, or is stolen by the bank which holds it longs will be out as well.
Silver is massively oversubscribed and longs take a risk by not owning physical since you can't make electronics or solar panels out of paper.
The naked shorts are already out billions and billions of dollars. What happens when the first goes bankrupt? What effect will this have on supply? What effect will it have on psychology? What will be the most probable outcome if/ when that occurs? Sure, for every long there's a short but the shorts are already suffering massive losses. Silver is being consumed at a rate reflecting a price of $27 rather than $1.25 or $100 / OZ. At the current price this has led to the destruction of so much silver it's only some three times more common than gold. This really isn't 1980 any longer and the status quo has slowly eroded things like families, brand names, and billions of ounces of silver.
The American people had best wake up and look at a calendar. Things have changed very gradually until now everything is completely different.
Cost of potatoes here has gone from 11c/ lb to as much as $1.20/ lb. It probably won't show up in the inflation index. Toilet paper has more than doubled. I hope this reflects higher net storage rather than a switch to home cooking. Cheap onions are now more expensive than the fancy onions. Prices throughout the stores have been stood on their ears. Locally grown products are often cheaper than previous years.
I think part of the reason for the physical shortage is that more and more people are coming to distrust the Comex and LME. They've seen the nickel default and know that paper silver is widely reported to be oversubscribed and its sellers nearing bankruptcy. They want to own silver which is EXACTLY why they went long in the first place. The total amount of available physical silver in coin shops and jewelry stores is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the paper markets so shortages might become far more extreme fueling psychology.
It would not be wise to buy ANY physical silver during a buying panic but this is exactly what people do. That's why they call it a "panic".
Azurescens- "Why bother ever having ideas if everything stays the same?"
It is becoming clear that the boomer generation that fought the status quo when young enshrined it as the only good when they got their share. It's the exact same status quo they fought but now that they own it will protect every part whether it works or not. Hypocrisy has been elevated to an art form.
WCC- "It makes a lot more sense that those who hold these sentiments are just collectively financially irrelevant as a buyer of last resort. Otherwise, since it is supposedly so radically underpriced, they should have bought up every single ounce and there potentially should have been nothing to buy since this claim was first made, all the way back to the 1980's. That's what will happen with any actual price fixing where the supply cannot be controlled."
Why the run up in the silver price? The shorts are being watched now and charges have been filed against a few. If they sell enough paper the price will come down and bail them out but the economy is already deep in paper.
The price isn't going to the moon the last couple weeks for a very simple reason; there are a lot of longs that sell into strength. There are also lots of older people who are disposing of silver due to age. There has been no "general" move out of paper and into physical yet but it takes very few people to snap up all the silver and this is why there is a shortage, more buyers than sellers.
I believe we'll see selling slow down a little but this is ALWAYS going to be the source of most of the available silver. This will be determined by price and demand. Until the Comex (et al) get their house in order there will be growing distrust of the viability and value of their products. If people were losing confidence in the greenback at the same rate as in futures we'd have 20% inflation.
Only a very few entities own almost all of the short positions and these entities will dissolve if the price goes up too fast or too far
Cladking, this is not true. The major shorts are the mining companies that sell future production. They are locking in a price. If the price goes up, they can simply deliver or biy back the contracts and sell higher priced.
Its because good meaning folk like yourself dont understand how this works is why conspiracy and misinformation spreads so easily. As a former educator i would hope you pursue fact.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You said it yourself, "paper trading can both increase and decrease prices."
Department of Justice routinely enforces action against futures market "spoofing." Spoofing is an illegal strategy that involves placing trade orders with the intent to cancel them before they can be executed. The goal is to affect the price of the commodity and benefit a preexisting trading position.
And DOJ seems to be pretty good at proving price manipulation in futures markets:
Bank of Nova Scotia spoofing precious metals
Merrill Lynch spoofing precious metals
JPM under investigation for spoofing precious metals
Bank of America charged with spoofing precious metals
Spoofing E-Mini NASDAQ 100 futures contracts
Spoofing E-mini S&P 500 contracts
Most paper traders, until recently, do not want the physical metal. They are simply hedging what they either produce or what they consume. Futures markets were initially established to provide constant, stable prices for wholesale producers and consumers of raw commodities. However, the futures markets have always offered the option of physical delivery.
Since the beginning of this year there has been much, much more interest (demand) in actual contract delivery from speculators. It has caught COMEX by surprise and their reaction has been to increase the variety of "good for delivery" bars it will accept at it's approved warehouses. If spot prices and physical delivery continue to rise, COMEX faces the possibility of not being able to honor contract delivery. Until recently many participants were willing to accept a cash settlement in lieu of "delivery," but recent COMEX physical holding reductions indicate that appears to have fallen out of favor with contract holders.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Yet a bullion bank (HSBC) loses $200 million in one day.
It's the speculators, and not the wholesale producers and consumers who will break the futures market. Unprecedented physical demand from players in a variety PM markets will be the cause. A food shortage/famine would have the same affect on corn futures.
Normal markets determine price based on real supply and actual demand. COMEX's downfall will be it's unlimited supply of "paper promises" and limited supply of actual product. COMEX's survival will depend on it's ability to weaken physical demand. The only way to do this is to weaken price. Look for COMEX to get assistance in one form or another, this is yet another reason, why gold/silver prices do in fact have an upper limit.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey