@ndleo said:
I don't see any fat ladies getting ready sing but she maybe on her way in an Uber.
Oh yeah I’ve been watching. I’ve started selling a few items but I think we’ve got a ways to go. The mainstream news is just starting to pick this story up. Also I think the new floor will be way higher but yes of course this cant continue at this rate.
sold two of my weaker 9s yesterday. one on ebay & one direct off ig.
more than happy to take 9x's what was paid for them.
prolly sell another next week. there is definitely a feeding frenzy out there for this card. per the ebay example, 2 people's inability to pay for the card w/i a specified time frame resulted in relisting and someone hitting the full bin price. i just think the 2 were trying to flip it real quick w excuses about delayed payments and/or paypal denying the payment,
the one on ig was for a psa 9 and an all star 9 for $28. and this was quasi-ig-buddy-slight-discount-pricing . only reason i'm listing sale price here is that it made me realize that even ebay sold listings and vcp pricing can be outdated and coincide w your statement about a higher floor. it's actually already here! 😉 and i think it's going to go way higher very quickly.
These asset bubbles always correct. Where I live we are at the peak of a massive RE bubble. People are doing ridiculous things to get into the market, and folks already in are using their homes as ATM’s. The belief is that the party will never end and RE will go up forever. As if, when this thing pops it will be massive. 2008 is a guide to what is going to eventually happen.
For cards, we know how this ends. I remember all my friends parents coming into the hobby in the early 90s . Gobbling up cards, opening up stores. All these new collectors were going to stick around and the hobby was going to grow like crazy. Then it didn’t, and the millions of fly by night collectors vanished.
The economics are different this time - money being thrown around is much bigger - but the emotion is the same. Air will come out of this and when it does it will go fast.
Fwiw I’m not talking about the Wilt RC, I don’t track that card. I think high end vintage and unopened has a long runway. Modern prices are where the real silliness is happening.
This same madness is happening in equity markets. This is what trillions of dollars injected into the economy looks like. Everything is inflated to ridiculous amounts. Fundamentals out the window, pump pump pump.
When this gasbag finally pops it is going to be spectacular. 1991 all over again
I know what you are implying about the pump pump pump, my intuition also feels the same. However looking at it for a global monetary policy point of view, every developed economy in the world is pumping money. Every time a govt calls for budget cuts and spending austerity, the people protest and vote the party out. Now the govts may pump less going forward, but I don't see how they can pull it back and cause those soft slowdowns. The money in the system now bidding up assets is going to stay in the system, this could be the new normal.
Basketball has been bonkers for months. It started with the Bulls doc and Jordan/Pippen which affected a lot of other '90s stuff. Then it moved into vintage and we saw some moves with a few key cards. But now it seems like all HOF rookies are just exploding. I picked up a PSA 7 Gervin RC because I couldn't find a PSA 8 that I liked and now the 7 is closing in on $1k. Same with my PSA 8 Moses Malone RC.
I'm actually surprised that '69 Topps HOF RCs haven't jumped more than they have. Players like Earl Monroe and Elvin Hayes are still $600 in PSA 8. I think Hayes is top-10 all-time in scoring and rebounding. I couldn't move an '83 Star Dominique RC in BGS 9 here for $700 and now they're creeping up past $800. A BGS 9 Isiah Thomas RC, a top-25 player all-time, is still just $400+. As crazy as some stuff is going there are still plenty of deals to be had out there if you look hard enough.
Dr. J's RC in PSA 8 is like $10k now but his All-Star RC is $400. His second-year, '73, which is plagued by tilt and off-centering, can be had for $300+ in PSA 8. The '81 Topps Magic PSA 9 is now back over $1k but the Bird can be had for $700. All sorts of idiosyncrasies that can be taken advantage of.
I took down all my basketball cards from B/S/T because the prices were ripe for buying, not selling.
Sold my Dr J 8 last week for 9K. Loved the card, however had $650 into it not even two years ago and I don’t love it that much. Put down payment on a car
@BJY83 said:
For those of you who sold at the peak of the market, are you worried about buyers using the liberal Ebay return policy to cover their losses?
@BJY83 said:
For those of you who sold at the peak of the market, are you worried about buyers using the liberal Ebay return policy to cover their losses?
my 14 day return policy has long been past. a few other nice ones were done off instagram. don't wanna jinx myself, but i think i'm good.
eta: i still don't know why folks still go w the "no returns" option. everyone knows that's not the case. go w the 14 day option, select buyer pays for returns, get the fee discount and close the loophole 16 day quicker. just making them pay for shipping, insurance and the signature usually thwarts a lot of returns AND/OR would-be flippers from purchasing in the first place.
sold a nice jordan dunk & go nuts on instagram yesterday. buyer saw it on ebay but he sent his IG info to me in his initial inquiry. did not respond thru ebay and hit him up via IG.
deal couldn't have gone smoother. guy even paid fnf simply because we had already been following each other for a while and had commented/liked on each other's collections. he bought on monday night, fedexed it to him tuesday for today and he's already got it posted to his feed w credit. kinda cool. even got a few DMs / followers from other guys that followed him asking what else i have.
seems like having a decent amount of followers there is kinda like having positive feedback, i guess. looking back, last three deals have paid me via fnf or venmo.
can't say i've got IG completely figured out, but i've done a few higher end deals, buying & selling wise, and each one has gone flawlessly. certainly much easier and less worrisome than ebay and the nightmares of what it's become.
@blurryface said:
sold a nice jordan dunk & go nuts on instagram yesterday. buyer saw it on ebay but he sent his IG info to me in his initial inquiry. did not respond thru ebay and hit him up via IG.
deal couldn't have gone smoother. guy even paid fnf simply because we had already been following each other for a while and had commented/liked on each other's collections. he bought on monday night, fedexed it to him tuesday for today and he's already got it posted to his feed w credit. kinda cool. even got a few DMs / followers from other guys that followed him asking what else i have.
seems like having a decent amount of followers there is kinda like having positive feedback, i guess. looking back, last three deals have paid me via fnf or venmo.
can't say i've got IG completely figured out, but i've done a few higher end deals, buying & selling wise, and each one has gone flawlessly. certainly much easier and less worrisome than ebay and the nightmares of what it's become.
I did send you a Pm with my info for those refractor samples for scanner testing. I know you said you don’t check PMs very much so I figured I would notify you this way. Thanks!
@ElvisP@BJY83 said:
For those of you who sold at the peak of the market, are you worried about buyers using the liberal Ebay return policy to cover their losses?
I would be.
Me too. All a buyer has to do is initiate a return claiming "item not as described". Print return label, enter tracking info.... then call their credit card company and do a charge back to reverse transaction. This is then a third party dispute and bypasses both eBay and PayPal without any seller recourse. Credit card company then decides in buyers favor. And it doesn't matter if you received a different item in the return.... ie, a PSA 9 instead of the PSA 10 you sold.
@BJY83 said:
For those of you who sold at the peak of the market, are you worried about buyers using the liberal Ebay return policy to cover their losses?
my 14 day return policy has long been past. a few other nice ones were done off instagram. don't wanna jinx myself, but i think i'm good.
eta: i still don't know why folks still go w the "no returns" option. everyone knows that's not the case. go w the 14 day option, select buyer pays for returns, get the fee discount and close the loophole 16 day quicker. just making them pay for shipping, insurance and the signature usually thwarts a lot of returns AND/OR would-be flippers from purchasing in the first place.
don't you need to offer 30 day free returns to get the discount . it says the exception is in "art" and "collectibles" categories. but sports memorabilia and fan shop do not fall under those 2? thanks
I just got burned on a request today. the guy bought it back 300 cheaper last night and is now returning the one he bought from me 18 days ago.
seems the 79 opc gretzky might be up to bat. a BIN was “hit” on a 9 at $82k after hovering around $50k.
thrown my pole out there to see if the clown fish are still biting. if someones attempting a run up, maybe theyll gobble up the bait. hopefully they do and get stuck.
The OPC Gretzky rookie has seen a pretty remarkable run up since May. All of Gretzky's 80's cards have jumped similar to what happed to Jordan in April. That particular 82k OPC Gretzky rookie was sold by and most likely graded by Martin Sports cards, and I will leave it at that.
OPC Gretzky rookies and 86 Fleer Jordan rookies have a lot in common, if you think of a Gretzky 9 compared to a Jordan 10. A condition sensitive card that is not particularly rare but a card anyone in the hobby can recognize and appreciate. I think the big difference is that hockey doesn't have the global following that basketball does, so we shall see what the limitations of a North American market are on this one.
i never talked shop w most friends. they always knew i dabbled, but i never brought up cards or was the guy that constantly tried steering every convo into the cardboard realm. but it's funny nowadays. every function, reception or bday party, i'll have someone bring up cards to me and start picking my brain. "whatcha think about this", "i just got this bccg rookie for dirt cheap", "how do you feel about lebrons cards?". not lebron, but his cards. pretty amusing. then when they are actually at the house these days, they want me to start pulling stuff out they had no interest in seeing the past 20 years or so they've been sitting there drinking.
@blurryface said:
seems the 79 opc gretzky might be up to bat. a BIN was “hit” on a 9 at $82k after hovering around $50k.
thrown my pole out there to see if the clown fish are still biting. if someones attempting a run up, maybe theyll gobble up the bait. hopefully they do and get stuck.
update: put my opc 9 up the other day. within this 48 hr timeframe I had several offers under the $60k mark and two offers at $65 and $67.5. the market pool of serious prospective buyers seem to be there. for now at least. I decided to pull it until we see what happens w the heritage 10s. unlike the erving 9s, this is my only one. seems absolutely stupid right now not to take the money and run considering what I have in it coupled w/ just how quickly and hard the dr js fell back down to earth. not sure if any of this info helps you uffdah. best of luck w your sales. I will be anxiously watching from the sidelines and suited up to jump in the game just in case.
@blurryface said:
seems the 79 opc gretzky might be up to bat. a BIN was “hit” on a 9 at $82k after hovering around $50k.
thrown my pole out there to see if the clown fish are still biting. if someones attempting a run up, maybe theyll gobble up the bait. hopefully they do and get stuck.
update: put my opc 9 up the other day. within this 48 hr timeframe I had several offers under the $60k mark and two offers at $65 and $67.5. the market pool of serious prospective buyers seem to be there. for now at least. I decided to pull it until we see what happens w the heritage 10s. unlike the erving 9s, this is my only one. seems absolutely stupid right now not to take the money and run considering what I have in it coupled w/ just how quickly and hard the dr js fell back down to earth. not sure if any of this info helps you uffdah. best of luck w your sales. I will be anxiously watching from the sidelines and suited up to jump in the game just in case.
I would look for an Avenue besides eBay (is there one really?) to sell this card. If we do see the dip you may have a return forced upon you via eBay.
I haven't tracked Dr. J's RC spike and fall, but I think the Gretzky RC market is more like the Jordan RC market. Gretzky is considered the GOAT of hockey. The hockey fan base is smaller but passionate.
@ndleo said:
I haven't tracked Dr. J's RC spike and fall, but I think the Gretzky RC market is more like the Jordan RC market. Gretzky is considered the GOAT of hockey. The hockey fan base is smaller but passionate.
Hockey may overtake the NBA after their miserable ratings this year. 😳
@ndleo said:
I haven't tracked Dr. J's RC spike and fall, but I think the Gretzky RC market is more like the Jordan RC market. Gretzky is considered the GOAT of hockey. The hockey fan base is smaller but passionate.
Hockey may overtake the NBA after their miserable ratings this year. 😳
nope. ratings were hard to keep considering you had nfl starting up, baseball season, college football season, soccer, wnba, golf tourneys, tennis tourneys, nascar, hockey, daily news, political debates and protests going left and right all piled on top of each other fighting for airtime and corporate dollars. prior to covid, there was a reason for the "seasons" and the reason they didn't lap over each other.
keep in mind, the nba bubble didn't have 1 single case of covid during the bubble. w the key word being "nba". meanwhile did you see/hear the crowd during manfreds trophy presentation of the ws and mvp winner?
nba also has a global market behind it, while we were watching korean baseball first.
Comments
Oh yeah I’ve been watching. I’ve started selling a few items but I think we’ve got a ways to go. The mainstream news is just starting to pick this story up. Also I think the new floor will be way higher but yes of course this cant continue at this rate.
From PSA: 1961 Fleer #43 Jerry West
Grade. Most Recent Avg.
7 10,500 1,475.02
6. 7,977.99. 1,443.26
shu,
sold two of my weaker 9s yesterday. one on ebay & one direct off ig.
more than happy to take 9x's what was paid for them.
prolly sell another next week. there is definitely a feeding frenzy out there for this card. per the ebay example, 2 people's inability to pay for the card w/i a specified time frame resulted in relisting and someone hitting the full bin price. i just think the 2 were trying to flip it real quick w excuses about delayed payments and/or paypal denying the payment,
the one on ig was for a psa 9 and an all star 9 for $28. and this was quasi-ig-buddy-slight-discount-pricing . only reason i'm listing sale price here is that it made me realize that even ebay sold listings and vcp pricing can be outdated and coincide w your statement about a higher floor. it's actually already here! 😉 and i think it's going to go way higher very quickly.
These asset bubbles always correct. Where I live we are at the peak of a massive RE bubble. People are doing ridiculous things to get into the market, and folks already in are using their homes as ATM’s. The belief is that the party will never end and RE will go up forever. As if, when this thing pops it will be massive. 2008 is a guide to what is going to eventually happen.
For cards, we know how this ends. I remember all my friends parents coming into the hobby in the early 90s . Gobbling up cards, opening up stores. All these new collectors were going to stick around and the hobby was going to grow like crazy. Then it didn’t, and the millions of fly by night collectors vanished.
The economics are different this time - money being thrown around is much bigger - but the emotion is the same. Air will come out of this and when it does it will go fast.
Fwiw I’m not talking about the Wilt RC, I don’t track that card. I think high end vintage and unopened has a long runway. Modern prices are where the real silliness is happening.
Basketball has been bonkers for months. It started with the Bulls doc and Jordan/Pippen which affected a lot of other '90s stuff. Then it moved into vintage and we saw some moves with a few key cards. But now it seems like all HOF rookies are just exploding. I picked up a PSA 7 Gervin RC because I couldn't find a PSA 8 that I liked and now the 7 is closing in on $1k. Same with my PSA 8 Moses Malone RC.
I'm actually surprised that '69 Topps HOF RCs haven't jumped more than they have. Players like Earl Monroe and Elvin Hayes are still $600 in PSA 8. I think Hayes is top-10 all-time in scoring and rebounding. I couldn't move an '83 Star Dominique RC in BGS 9 here for $700 and now they're creeping up past $800. A BGS 9 Isiah Thomas RC, a top-25 player all-time, is still just $400+. As crazy as some stuff is going there are still plenty of deals to be had out there if you look hard enough.
Dr. J's RC in PSA 8 is like $10k now but his All-Star RC is $400. His second-year, '73, which is plagued by tilt and off-centering, can be had for $300+ in PSA 8. The '81 Topps Magic PSA 9 is now back over $1k but the Bird can be had for $700. All sorts of idiosyncrasies that can be taken advantage of.
I took down all my basketball cards from B/S/T because the prices were ripe for buying, not selling.
Arthur
oops.
My dumb ass decided to part ways with this card in January of this year. What a mistake that was. I can only guess I left $6-7K on the table.
Nice 6, sorry about the timing
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Sorry. That’s a stellar 6 with that centering. Well onto the next card. Can’t time everything.
Yes lots of good points> @BPorter26 said:
>
Who could have seen an explosion in pricing...just like the stock market. Gorgeous card!
Last 5 sales for the Oscar Robertson RC PSA 6:
439
549
1300
11,211
10,600
I think the manipulators are out in full force.
Sold my Dr J 8 last week for 9K. Loved the card, however had $650 into it not even two years ago and I don’t love it that much. Put down payment on a car
I wonder how much lower these are going to go.
https://ebay.com/itm/1972-Topps-Basketball-Julius-Erving-ROOKIE-RC-195-PSA-9-MINT-/143747518754
Amazing, and expected. The pumpers and card doctors are in control of the hobby.
The dump is on. I could buy back my 8 Dr. J with a nice profit. The accepted price on this BIN over the weekend was $3500
264889588767
Wonder where it will settle?
For those of you who sold at the peak of the market, are you worried about buyers using the liberal Ebay return policy to cover their losses?
Brian
I would be.
Any of this "control" exist in the unopened market?
my 14 day return policy has long been past. a few other nice ones were done off instagram. don't wanna jinx myself, but i think i'm good.
eta: i still don't know why folks still go w the "no returns" option. everyone knows that's not the case. go w the 14 day option, select buyer pays for returns, get the fee discount and close the loophole 16 day quicker. just making them pay for shipping, insurance and the signature usually thwarts a lot of returns AND/OR would-be flippers from purchasing in the first place.
Blurry, what’s your IG? Id like to follow if you’re showing your collection as well as selling. Thanks.
dm sent, coop.
sold a nice jordan dunk & go nuts on instagram yesterday. buyer saw it on ebay but he sent his IG info to me in his initial inquiry. did not respond thru ebay and hit him up via IG.
deal couldn't have gone smoother. guy even paid fnf simply because we had already been following each other for a while and had commented/liked on each other's collections. he bought on monday night, fedexed it to him tuesday for today and he's already got it posted to his feed w credit. kinda cool. even got a few DMs / followers from other guys that followed him asking what else i have.
seems like having a decent amount of followers there is kinda like having positive feedback, i guess. looking back, last three deals have paid me via fnf or venmo.
can't say i've got IG completely figured out, but i've done a few higher end deals, buying & selling wise, and each one has gone flawlessly. certainly much easier and less worrisome than ebay and the nightmares of what it's become.
I did send you a Pm with my info for those refractor samples for scanner testing. I know you said you don’t check PMs very much so I figured I would notify you this way. Thanks!
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
@ElvisP @BJY83 said:
For those of you who sold at the peak of the market, are you worried about buyers using the liberal Ebay return policy to cover their losses?
I would be.
Me too. All a buyer has to do is initiate a return claiming "item not as described". Print return label, enter tracking info.... then call their credit card company and do a charge back to reverse transaction. This is then a third party dispute and bypasses both eBay and PayPal without any seller recourse. Credit card company then decides in buyers favor. And it doesn't matter if you received a different item in the return.... ie, a PSA 9 instead of the PSA 10 you sold.
I didn’t seem to get it. I am going to shoot you one!
don't you need to offer 30 day free returns to get the discount . it says the exception is in "art" and "collectibles" categories. but sports memorabilia and fan shop do not fall under those 2? thanks
I just got burned on a request today. the guy bought it back 300 cheaper last night and is now returning the one he bought from me 18 days ago.
i only offer 14 day, have the top rated seller icon and get the discount.
not gonna rock the boat by calling to verify, though.
seems the 79 opc gretzky might be up to bat. a BIN was “hit” on a 9 at $82k after hovering around $50k.
thrown my pole out there to see if the clown fish are still biting. if someones attempting a run up, maybe theyll gobble up the bait. hopefully they do and get stuck.
The OPC Gretzky rookie has seen a pretty remarkable run up since May. All of Gretzky's 80's cards have jumped similar to what happed to Jordan in April. That particular 82k OPC Gretzky rookie was sold by and most likely graded by Martin Sports cards, and I will leave it at that.
OPC Gretzky rookies and 86 Fleer Jordan rookies have a lot in common, if you think of a Gretzky 9 compared to a Jordan 10. A condition sensitive card that is not particularly rare but a card anyone in the hobby can recognize and appreciate. I think the big difference is that hockey doesn't have the global following that basketball does, so we shall see what the limitations of a North American market are on this one.
i believe one of the 10s is coming up at heritage pretty soon too.
An OPC 10 and a Topps 10 are coming up. My OPC 9 is also coming up and my OPC Box with a pack inside showing a Gretzky on back.
even the stock guys on Twitter are starting to think that vintage psa RC’s might be the best hedge
collecting cards is now cool again.
i never talked shop w most friends. they always knew i dabbled, but i never brought up cards or was the guy that constantly tried steering every convo into the cardboard realm. but it's funny nowadays. every function, reception or bday party, i'll have someone bring up cards to me and start picking my brain. "whatcha think about this", "i just got this bccg rookie for dirt cheap", "how do you feel about lebrons cards?". not lebron, but his cards. pretty amusing. then when they are actually at the house these days, they want me to start pulling stuff out they had no interest in seeing the past 20 years or so they've been sitting there drinking.
Yes feels very much like the 90s boom. A few of collected, then everyone was a collector. Forget what happened next.
update: put my opc 9 up the other day. within this 48 hr timeframe I had several offers under the $60k mark and two offers at $65 and $67.5. the market pool of serious prospective buyers seem to be there. for now at least. I decided to pull it until we see what happens w the heritage 10s. unlike the erving 9s, this is my only one. seems absolutely stupid right now not to take the money and run considering what I have in it coupled w/ just how quickly and hard the dr js fell back down to earth. not sure if any of this info helps you uffdah. best of luck w your sales. I will be anxiously watching from the sidelines and suited up to jump in the game just in case.
I would look for an Avenue besides eBay (is there one really?) to sell this card. If we do see the dip you may have a return forced upon you via eBay.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
I haven't tracked Dr. J's RC spike and fall, but I think the Gretzky RC market is more like the Jordan RC market. Gretzky is considered the GOAT of hockey. The hockey fan base is smaller but passionate.
Hockey may overtake the NBA after their miserable ratings this year. 😳
nope. ratings were hard to keep considering you had nfl starting up, baseball season, college football season, soccer, wnba, golf tourneys, tennis tourneys, nascar, hockey, daily news, political debates and protests going left and right all piled on top of each other fighting for airtime and corporate dollars. prior to covid, there was a reason for the "seasons" and the reason they didn't lap over each other.
keep in mind, the nba bubble didn't have 1 single case of covid during the bubble. w the key word being "nba". meanwhile did you see/hear the crowd during manfreds trophy presentation of the ws and mvp winner?
nba also has a global market behind it, while we were watching korean baseball first.