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Hey! You lookin' at me?

TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Ok, what's up with this eye on a PCGS certified 1781 Carlos III Mexico 8R? I have some theories, but would like to hear ideas from this group.


8 Reales Madness Collection

Comments

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tooled

    Latin American Collection

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    Tooled

    Die or coin?


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin. Wouldn’t die need to have a raised lump to create this effect? Have you found others like it?

    Latin American Collection

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020 7:42AM

    @Boosibri said:
    Coin. Wouldn’t die need to have a raised lump to create this effect? Have you found others like it?

    It would and it's not very likely on an authentic die since if some of the design elements were not fully struck up when the die sinker placed the King punch, he would just do it again instead of re-working it.

    I have not found others with that eye.

    Here's something else that PCGS missed on this coin:


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,483 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting... Certainly tooling would seem to be the most probable explanation.

    Just curious... Is there any type of an observable impact at the opposite side on the reverse of the coin?

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  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020 1:11PM

    @coinkat said:

    >

    Just curious... Is there any type of an observable impact at the opposite side on the reverse of the coin?

    There does appear to be a small circular toning spot on the other side that would potentially point to metal being compressed / flattened there. But could be just toning.

    Keep in mind the size of that eye is only a couple millimeters


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could be a secret mark identifying it as someone’s coin. Since sold (or otherwise deaccessioned).

  • ChopmarkedTradesChopmarkedTrades Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some of the marks could be lightly applied chops, but none are conclusively identifiable as such.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could the three items be strike thru of wire or hair? The eyeball thingie could it be a die chip that broke free? Peace Roy

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  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2020 6:37AM

    @Namvet69 said:
    Could the three items be strike thru of wire or hair? The eyeball thingie could it be a die chip that broke free? Peace Roy

    Neah, they're chops. Very small chops, but nonetheless. Bob Gurney mentioned that the eye punch in particular has been written about in several places (I followed-up with him about sources). One purpose was done to "kill" any evil spirit that the coin may harbor.

    Additionally, base of pillars and inside legend letters are also pretty common places you'll encounter small chops like these. Personally, i'm not a big fan of small chops due to the sheer volume of counterfeits I have seen heavily chopped with small chops in the past.


    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • EuclidEuclid Posts: 117 ✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2020 8:56PM

    @TwoKopeiki said: Bob Gurney mentioned that the eye punch in particular has been written about in several places (I followed-up with him about sources). One purpose was done to "kill" any evil spirit that the coin may harbor.

    Are any of these writings available to be shared? That sounds very interesting to read about.

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