Do you believe mega-ultra rarities are still out there, and entirely unknown?
Weiss
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HA's upcoming Donald G. Patrick auction features "the finest-known Brasher Doubloons"
I appreciate the auctioneers covering their bases like that. But really? "Finest known"?
What are the chances that not only is there are entirely unknown mega rarity like a Brasher Doubloon somewhere out there--one that nobody has ever seen or recorded--but that this unicorn of unicorns would grade higher than MS65*?
Is that just hype-man speak?
There are other SS Central Americas and Saddle Ridges out there. There have to be. And they will come to the market eventually. And there will be some rare material in them.
But are there true earth-shattering mega ultra rarities still out there, entirely unknown?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
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The recently discovered NGC XF 1854-S $5 proves it is plausible.
The '64 Peace comes to mind. There have been alleged sightings. If I owned one I'd keep the trap shut.
It is believed there is another 1849 double eagle out there and possibly a sixth 1913 Liberty Head Nickel out there.
Langboard hoard of 1933 double eagles is another example that comes to mind. These were supposedly "discovered" (or re-discovered by descendants) in an old bank box if I recall correctly.
RE:
...that nobody has ever seen or recorded--but that this unicorn of unicorns would grade higher than MS65*?
I don't think so.
Weiss, consider the HK-371 Gold Hudson Daalder. I purchased it raw around 2005 from a dealer at a show who didn't even know what it was. he purchased it from a collector in a group of Gold Commemorative Dollars and told me the collector had owned it since the late 1950's. submitted to NGC it graded MS68. another example is the 1933 Double Eagle.
yes, I believe there are rarities yet to be found that are high grade.
In the last 20 years, there have been some big finds so why not a few more big finds in the next 20 years? I believe they are few and far between but it is possible. As for a finer Brasher Doubloon, I doubt it.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I've never heard anything even remotely credible about a 6th 1913 Liberty Nickel. Upon what did you base your comment?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
At least these have been identified as potential candidates. Another 1933 Double Eagle or more could also surface.
Original gold Libertas Americana medal. "The only two gold pieces struck were reserved for Louis XVI and Queen Marie Antoinette. The whereabouts of these two incredibly rare pieces is unknown, though many believe they were melted during the upheaval of the French Revolution."
If one of those turned up in France, what do you think?
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
Today what I believe is out there and what is actually out there can not be reconciled because what is out there is "unknown" (until it becomes "known").
The above said, I believe that there are mega-rarities (whatever your definition of that term is) that today are out there that are:
a. unknown by anyone;
b. unknown by anyone except the one person in possession of them;
c. unknown by anyone except the person in possession of them and his/her family;
d. unknown, except for a small circle of persons (i.e. other collectors and/or dealers who have a personal relationship with the person who possesses the item; and
e. unknown outside of the hobby.
Hype? If we don't yet know of these hypothetical uber-gem Brasher Doubloons, then (by definition) the coin coming up for auction can legitimately be called "finest known".
I have no doubt that somewhere there is an ultra rarity waiting to be rediscovered.
I know someone who found a continental dollar in a dealer junk bin. He was convinced it was real, and PCGS agreed. I saw it when it was in the PCGS slab. I forgot the grade, but do know it was "details"
I do the coin appraisals for an annual appraisal fair. A number of years ago a women brought in 4 early dollars all raw, all uncirculated, including a Gobrecht dollar. She said she had even better coins that she did not bring in. She had gotten them from her late husband, who got them from his Grandpa who owned a factory and collected coins at the turn of the 20th century.
At the above mentioned appraisal fair a couple of years ago, I women brought in a 1917/18 standing liberty quarter she had found in the change she got to do her laundry some 40 years earlier. NGC ended up grading it MS65, it is a very rare coin in that grade.
Perhaps none of these mentioned would be considered ultra rarities, but these cases convince me the ultrararities are out there, we just need to discover them.
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I’m certain there’s many coin collections still sitting dormant. It happens when collections are passed down and just put away in storage. With the information highway they are much further in between these days but still entombed somewhere.
Happy hunting 😊
That's why it's the "finest-known."
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
I worked for a company that gave out Silver Dollars at Christmas time along with a Check for 3% of your yearly earnings! All the food you could eat and the likes. It was said that our company vault held Two Bags of 1903-O's uncirculated from the Mint, and when a New Owner moved in the coins went "Missing" no one recalls when they were taken out, it had to be shortly after the the new owner or taken by the "old" owner on there way out the door to this day no one knows where they are...
I've posted this before but it seems appropriate for this discussion:
If a woman with the Parmalee 1793 Strawberry Leaf Cent can walk into a jewelry / collectibles store in auburn Maine in 2004 having pulled the coin from a safe deposit box where it sat since 1941 than it is possible.
Yes! 1794 Flowing Hair dollar with a mintage of 1,758 and only 150 known, there must be a few left somewhere.
Dusty attics and old cigar boxes comes to mind.
No one knows for sure. Itll turn up someday
Sure they’re out there. Didn’t someone recently walk into an Ohio coin shop carrying, at the time, a previously unknown 1870-CC Double Eagle?
I’m sure there are still some rarities out there generally undiscovered. At least undiscovered by the general public. Some might be in criminal hands, foreign holdings, bottom of the sea, languishing in a museum pile, or forgotten in some other location. They won’t come to light unless there is some series of fortunate events.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
Yes.
Yes, as Rumsfeld said, There are things we don't know, we don't know.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I sure do!
This was a find from the wild in the mid-1990’s.
The rumor of the 6th 1913 Liberty Head nickel was due to the holder that Newman used to keep all 5 1913 nickels together. That holder had 2 additional openings, but those were used to hold reeded edge Buffalo Nickels - which, of course, were 1913 Nickels!!
I use the 1870-S Quarter as a pocket piece.
One or both might just be out there! For nearly 200 years, the original dies for the Libertas Americana were thought lost; however, they were found....in the holdings of the Paris Museum!
I think they are out there....
I owned the holder, previously and it contains eight spaces.
From the auction lot description when I acquired it:
“Five of the openings were occupied by the original 1913 Liberty nickels, leaving places for three additional nickels. One was a pattern Type One style Buffalo nickel proof described by Eric P. Newman as from the "regular type," but with broader rims and shorter feathers on the headdress, probably unique. Another Buffalo nickel was an Uncirculated Type Two of regular mintage. The third Buffalo nickel was also a Type Two piece, described as "in copper, Unc., probably unique."
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
US coins unless discovery of hoard doubt it. Some original rolls in bank somewhere? Dream on. I think the cask been drained dry.
I do have many 19th and early 20th century slabbed world issues with single digit or low double digit pops. I continue my hunt for these. Many have acquired for what it would cost 2 people to go out for dinner or less. A 19th century PCGS 65 silver coin pop of 2 none higher got for around $150 (could not believe they gave it away for that, would not take less than $900 on it if even if that low) and people on eBay bidding up generic morgan dollars on eBay $120 and up which have populations in thousands or tens of thousands. I blew out all of my generic $ and Walkers this last couple months lol. eBay bidders aggressively bidding them up could not believe / demise of shows? Bought a raw Mexico early 1940’s silver peso a real blazer for $17 ((auc) its at least 66 or 67 wb sending it in.
How about the recently discovered unique 1822 B-3 quarter found earlier this year or late last year!
Another Yes!
Until you have looked at every woman in the world, you cannot say any one woman is the most beautiful woman in the world.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
@bustie have you seen that coin?
No, just pictures. The reverse is the same as the reverse of the 1823/2 with the broken arrows.
Yes.
.
Don't forget the unique 1873-CC No Arrows dime, found in a dealer's junk box in 1978.
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Definitely. I find it difficult to understand how some of the fat head 5’s are so incredibly rare. Did the entire mintages of issues like the 1823 go straight from the mint to a billion broker? If these coins actually circulated, there’s bound to be a few that are still out there. Cool finds turn up in unexpected places all the time. About 20 years ago my great uncle passed away. He lived in England for a time and in a random box of his stuff was a large British 5 guinea gold coin from 1693 entirely raw and not in any sort of holder other than maybe a velvet sack. It graded PCGS 45. Id say it’s the equivalent of randomly finding a low AU early 19th century bust eagle, so it was a pretty significant random coin owned by a non-collector. I’m sure stuff like this happens all the time.
As the old saying goes:Never say never.
The OP asked what are the chances that not only is there are entirely unknown mega rarity "but that this unicorn of unicorns would grade higher than MS65*?"
Of course it depends on one's definition of mega rarity, but also grading higher than MS65. I don't think so.
Lots of older homes and buildings are being taken down here in Massachusetts, I’m sure that will uncover many more treasures in the next few years.
It is always interesting to speculate about the unknown.... and the fact that it is unknown, allows for the possibility it may become known. Until an unknown becomes known, then both sides are correct....
Cheers, RickO
So Schrodinger had a coin too!
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
@SiriusBlack.... You are very perceptive.
Cheers, RickO
Schrodinger's "Moose"?
I have no doubt there are some great rarities in hiding currently. Whether known or unknown. What is so intriguing about numismatics is that something like a mintmark, which would be difficult for the lay-person to perceive....is enough to make the difference between a coin being a valuable treasure or an insignificant find. From a wall, an old jar of coins, buried, or in a SDB.....you never know. Estate sales and the price of metals may bring forth more rarities.
Although not "mega" rarities, I have a couple relatively local recent examples of note:
-Large hoard of sealed early proof sets (1895) in the "time capsule" collection.
-Estate auction of early gold and proof coins stored in a coin cabinet for over 100 years untouched.
-Local dealer in the northernmost part of Maine having two old ladies from NY pull a bag out of their trunk of coins passed down by an aunt many years ago, including an 1804 $5 in AU55 and a couple 1902 $20 Proofs grading PR63.
You just never know...
This HK-1000A was just discovered with a common obverse but a significantly different newly discovered reverse. It's recently discovered and sold for $26,400.00 in 2017:
Before answering, I want to see what's under Oak Island.