The message all us submitters dread to hear... True View Pics!

joeykoins

Hi guy's, yes, got the terrible news sent to me this morning. What we all cringe when we see it in our email or hear it. "CLEANED". My poor key coin Mercury 1920s FSB MS bound beauty! From a coin that would be probably worth, over $1000, if it came back ok. Now, who knows what it's worth? This is the most surprising element, all I did was let the coin sit in acetone. Only for about 1 hour. I didn't rub it or try to do anything else with the coin? I constantly hear others dip their coins in acetone just before they send it out? Hard lesson learned. This would of been my BEST coin in my collection. Oh well, in this business you have to take the good with the bad, right? Lol. After all, I did find it in a junk silver box that shouldn't of been there to begin with. And only paid, $5. Here is the result after, what our host calls, " Cleaned".

d9lowe

Im new to all of this, but one rule i have always heard is "never clean your coins!"

Goldminers

On most coins and other things, I find that if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

messydesk

I can't tell from the pictures why they said it was cleaned, but I also wouldn't say it wasn't.

keyman64

Tough to judge from those photos. Did you have PCGS take a True View of the coin that you can share? In cases like that, it could be possible to "fix" the coin by putting it in a 1950s yellow US Mint Envelope by itself and hanging it in a nice humid Florida garage for a couple of months to let it re-tone, checking on it every couple of weeks. It is definitely better than a $5 coin.

In regards to your approach of the acetone bath, when you have a coin that has heavy crud/toning that has most likely eaten through the luster layer of the coin, you typically do not want to mess with it at all because as soon as the crud is gone you will see flat gray areas on the silver coin that will be a dead giveaway for cleaning.

derryb

when some of the dirt is left behind a coin screams "cleaned."

LanceNewmanOCC

unfortunate bad news. we cant really help you with the quality of images you've provided here or in the other threads. you're doing good on presentation and technical expertise though.

if you get the cash, i still think the quickest and easiest way out is a 6th or 7th gen. camera phone. i love my iphone 6s for the cost of $60. apple knows how to make a camera, let me tell ya.

obviously nothing compared to my former dslr d90 nikon.

yesterdays cleaned dogs are tomorrow's pcgs ms65fsb cac....

ricko

Looks like the spots where crud was removed give it that 'cleaned' look.... would have to see better pictures for a proper evaluation though. Cheers, RickO

MFeld

Maybe the coin was already cleaned (looking) before it sat in acetone.

Jimnight

The evening is coming ... and ...
Tomorrow is a brand new day.

ironmanl63

@MFeld said:
Maybe the coin was already cleaned (looking) before it sat in acetone.

I agree. I doubt it was your acetone bath that caused PCGS to call the coin cleaned. I would guess there were issues long before you dipped it in acetone.

joeykoins

@MFeld said:
Maybe the coin was already cleaned (looking) before it sat in acetone.

You know what, you may be on to something? Thanks. After all, it was in a junk silver tray? When I first seen the coin, right away, the alarm rang in my head, " Fake"! I do have this coin in a past thread before I "CLEANED" IT. You may be right?

joeykoins

Thanks guys for all your responses. Someone did suggest that I crack it out then try to let the coin tone.

mothra454

@joeykoins said:
Thanks guys for all your responses. Someone did suggest that I crack it out then try to let the coin tone.

Sounds like an experienced grader would still be able to detect that it had been cleaned at some point, but definitely update us how this goes if you do it.

Thanks to all the other posters for weighing in, threads like these help newbies like me pick up lots of pointers about things to look out for! Also, does anyone else think the bands are only 90% split?

CoinJunkie

If I'm interpreting those photos correctly, I doubt that toning the coin will change the verdict. OTOH, you don't have much to lose (other than another submission fee).

MFeld

@mothra454 said:

@joeykoins said:
Thanks guys for all your responses. Someone did suggest that I crack it out then try to let the coin tone.

Sounds like an experienced grader would still be able to detect that it had been cleaned at some point, but definitely update us how this goes if you do it.

Thanks to all the other posters for weighing in, threads like these help newbies like me pick up lots of pointers about things to look out for! Also, does anyone else think the bands are only 90% split?

Based upon the image provided, to my eyes, the coin doesn't appear to be FB.

TomB

I'll add a couple points or observations.

The first is that it is highly unlikely that letting a coin sit in acetone will result in the coin's surfaces being damaged to the extent that it would be considered cleaned. If you are revealing surfaces altered or damaged that badly then the coin already had been cleaned and/or had crud that had eaten into the integrity of the metal and had etched or pitted it previously. Additionally, while artificial toning has long been used as a method to hide imperfections, it will not reverse or cure surfaces. In other words, simply letting it tone won't fix the surfaces of a cleaned coin, but it might certainly allow one to deceptively sell the coin later on. Lastly, before and after images would be wonders for your thread as well as having images that didn't appear to be scans of some sort. It's just too tough to figure out what is coin and what is artifact with some of these images.

messydesk

@mothra454 said:
...

Thanks to all the other posters for weighing in, threads like these help newbies like me pick up lots of pointers about things to look out for! Also, does anyone else think the bands are only 90% split?

There's a bit left of the center that makes me say not FB, but the picture is rather low-fidelity and high-artifact, so that could be anything.

oih82w8

Did you opt for the TrueViews? It may be able to shed some light onto areas in question.

matt_dac

The surface between the B and E in Liberty are the dead giveaway to cleaning to my eyes/this picture. I too know the disappointment in having a coin returned as cleaned. Sorry to hear.

joeykoins

@MFeld said:

@mothra454 said:

@joeykoins said:
Thanks guys for all your responses. Someone did suggest that I crack it out then try to let the coin tone.

Sounds like an experienced grader would still be able to detect that it had been cleaned at some point, but definitely update us how this goes if you do it.

Thanks to all the other posters for weighing in, threads like these help newbies like me pick up lots of pointers about things to look out for! Also, does anyone else think the bands are only 90% split?

Based upon the image provided, to my eyes, the coin doesn't appear to be FB.

Lol. The news just keeps on getting better! Lol

joeykoins

@oih82w8 said:
Did you opt for the TrueViews? It may be able to shed some light onto areas in question.

Yes! I believe I did pay for that too?

jclovescoins

The coin looks funky whether or not it is cleaned.

Wahoo554

I recall seeing your original images of the coin before you dipped it in another thread. I recall it had a nice and original look to it. Not sure why you elected to dip it.

vplite99

From the photo, the coin seems "off".

LanceNewmanOCC

@TomB said:
I'll add a couple points or observations.

The first is that it is highly unlikely that letting a coin sit in acetone will result in the coin's surfaces being damaged to the extent that it would be considered cleaned.

i appreciate the commentary. when i first read it, just didn't seem like a good idea but didn't know for sure. i only use it sparingly. bold move letting it soak unless previous experience shows virtually no harm will come. would it not even effect the luster?

MasonG

@joeykoins said:
My poor key coin Mercury 1920s FSB MS bound beauty!

Aside from looking polished, I'm not seeing "MS" in those pics.

CoinJunkie

@messydesk said:

@mothra454 said:
...

Thanks to all the other posters for weighing in, threads like these help newbies like me pick up lots of pointers about things to look out for! Also, does anyone else think the bands are only 90% split?

There's a bit left of the center that makes me say not FB, but the picture is rather low-fidelity and high-artifact, so that could be anything.

The "disturbance" left of center on the central bands may just be a toning spot. If so, I'd say FB is highly likely. IMHO, of course.

crazyhounddog

I will give you my personal guarantee putting a coin in acetone will not constitute cleaning, no way. I agree with Mark that the coin was cleaned before the acetone bath. Let’s not send mixed signals to other collectors. I have ALWAYS given my coins an acetone bath before I send them in and have never received a cleaning grade because of it. Acetone will NOT constitute cleaning.
Carry on😊

291fifth

Even though the photos are not good the coin screams "cleaned". PCGS graders see thousands of coins like this and can spot cleaning of various types without much difficulty. You need to become more selective about what you send in for grading. The way to do this is by becoming much more conservative and much less forgiving when evaluating coins.

DeutscherGeist

Acetone baths cannot make a coin look cleaned. It does not react with silver and won't or cannot harm the silver luster in anyway. The coin had issues before the acetone bath.

I give all my coins an acetone bath before archiving them to ensure any impurities are off the coin as I do not know where they have been. It takes off recent fingerprints and saliva from people talking while the coin is exposed and so on. If the acetone bath for non-mint sealed coins are not given, there is a chance that in 10-20 years, you will see spots and other minor blemishes from impurities taking their toll.

TomB

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@TomB said:
I'll add a couple points or observations.

The first is that it is highly unlikely that letting a coin sit in acetone will result in the coin's surfaces being damaged to the extent that it would be considered cleaned.

i appreciate the commentary. when i first read it, just didn't seem like a good idea but didn't know for sure. i only use it sparingly. bold move letting it soak unless previous experience shows virtually no harm will come. would it not even effect the luster?

No. Acetone will not affect luster other than to possibly remove crud that is impeding the appearance of luster. Acetone does not react with silver or gold and will not chemically dissolve the flow lines that constitute the appearance of intact luster.

ChrisH821

The coin looks FB to me.
Where is the original thread on this coin? I tried to look at your old posts but the titles are all vague so I have no idea which one might contain this coin.

airplanenut

Oftentimes, cleaning leaves dirt up against the devices, where the rag or whatever else was used to do the cleaning can't reach. This coin has lots of dirt, but only in the protected regions. That's a major tip it could be cleaned, even without being able to see the surfaces clearly enough to know if there are hairlines or other giveaways.

davewesen

did you look at surfaces with loupe before sending?

the reverse looks a little funky in field above E PLURIBUS

TennesseeDave

I always dip every coin in acetone before submitting it to Pcgs. I generally have 75-80% straight grade per submission, so I'm sure acetone doesn't cause any damage. Sorry your coin did not grade.

Aotearoa

@matt_dac said:
The surface between the B and E in Liberty are the dead giveaway to cleaning to my eyes/this picture. I too know the disappointment in having a coin returned as cleaned. Sorry to hear.

Spot on. It almost as if it's been attacked with a rubber (eraser).

NumisOxide

Sorry to hear that it came back cleaned. I would like to see the trueview if there is one available.

PerryHall

@ChrisH821 said:
The coin looks FB to me.

Is FB an abbreviation for fubar?

joeykoins

@ChrisH821 said:
The coin looks FB to me.
Where is the original thread on this coin? I tried to look at your old posts but the titles are all vague so I have no idea which one might contain this coin.

Yes. It's titled,"Anyone want to share their new purchase's?" The 2nd page. Thanks You'll find me post a before and after photo.

REALGATOR

Never seen an original better date coin that nice in a junk box. My guess is the acetone uncovered an old cleaning.

CoinJunkie

@joeykoins said:

@ChrisH821 said:
The coin looks FB to me.
Where is the original thread on this coin? I tried to look at your old posts but the titles are all vague so I have no idea which one might contain this coin.

Yes. It's titled,"Anyone want to display their new purchase's?" The 2nd page. Thanks You'll find me post a before and after photo.

The thread is titled "Anyone want to share their new purchases?", and your coin is on page 13.

coinbuf

Cannot really say much from your photo as it is too out of focus/sharpness to make any real determination. Looking forward to the TV to see if it gives better clues to the issue.

bsshog40

I agree with a couple others on here that the coin was probably cleaned before the acetone dip. I've never seen acetone do anything other than take crud off of metal. I've used acetone on brass, aluminum, silver etc... and never seen it affect the metal except to lift off junk. Never seen it affect luster either. It doesn't even remove toning like ez-zest does, so I don't think the acetone did anything except to probably lift crud to expose the old cleaning better.

LanceNewmanOCC

@joeykoins said:

did ya post about your other grades? i haven't seen them.

ChrisH821

Here are the originals

jabba

That sucks man I’ve been there done that! It’s a nice one to bad!

Coinmandan

Something just isn't right about it . It had issues , then the acetone bath . It just looks off , sorry.

Coinmandan

The second pic is much better . But yeah you can tell it was cleaned .

astrorat

Sorry to hear about your unexpected results.

Pure acetone will not alter the surface of a gold or silver coin. Washing a coin is pure acetone is not the same as washing a 'coin dip' solution like e-Z-est. Acetone does not react with the metal, it is an organic solvent. Acetone will remove organic and some inorganic material sitting on the coin's surface.

Acetone will uncover the surface and reveal what lurks under the 'dirt', however.

joeykoins

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@joeykoins said:

did ya post about your other grades? i haven't seen them.

No. Still waiting, thanks.