2c good or no? you decide.
LanceNewmanOCC
Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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sorry for starting another thread about counterfeits. we've had plenty lately. this is a good one to see for education since we don't see them here often.
i thought to myself. why is a BU red 2c listed with the reverse as the main pic. just not something you see very often. so i thought, lets click to see why. counterfeits was the last thing on my mind. ugh
well....this....is....why! - not one you see very often.
i'll let others determine some of the other listings. using the sunlight for their images is throwing me off for the slabs but a couple look off.
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Comments
No. Details are way too mushy and to me indicate counterfeit.
bob
PS: are the 8's in the date different sizes?
yes.
i did report this one fwiw.
prohit- stamps-replica - the little "i" explanation under Replica is why.
That second "8" is too big. Plus, I don't like the rim.
peacockcoins
No good ... texture, rim and date ... might be more I don't see on first glance
Added; Oh yeah the spiral dies lines on the reverse
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
usually i refer to these as concentric die lines but your comment made me think that they may be "lathe lines" from the die/hub creation process.
No it's not for me
It just looks fake!
Made of compressed wood dust, lol?
So the govt wants to continue to seize cheap, common Greek and Roman coins being imported into the country and can claim to differentiate between what’s allowed and what’s not but they can’t block any reasonable percentage of counterfeits being imported in daily...
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
just for a friendly debate. why do you think counterfeits aren't made on our soil as well? - although i do see part of your point is about priority/time/resources etc which could be applied to imported and home-grown and some sort of unfortunate irony.
I’m sure they are but it’s on an industrial scale in China. They probably can do it better and cheaper than domestic fakes.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
cheaper for sure, quantity for sure, better quality, not so sure about that. with some of the misspelling, mixed dies/types and other various nincompoop mistakes i've/we've seen, how good is a counterfeit (slab) for instance when it spells numismatist "nunismatist" or knowledge "rnowledge". hehe
i was goign through my archives the other day "obviously" and saw some close-up pics of the various mistakes made on what i presume to be over-seas counterfeit slabs.
how good is a counterfeit (slab) for instance when it spells numismatist "nunismatist" or knowledge "rnowledge". hehe
I wasn't goign to post this but.....oh well
Sorry Lance, just in fun.
The date is all wrong for starters.
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Great thought, and good info on our PM's. Yes, I agree. These are probably from a tooling lathe when the die was made. Kind of sloppy work if we think about it in that context.
But, thankfully most counterfeits I see are at least a little sloppy. Wrong letter types and date placements are common tells. Die lines that don't follow convention, fabric that doesn't follow what would be a proper striking pressure for the period on the correct metal.
Little things like that make the numismatic mind go, no, no, no ... that's not right. This coin actually has a lot of them on closer examination.
Keep up the good work!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
That's about what I'd expect a two center to look like if the Mint made them today, except the design would be way worse.
The date is way wonky!
Coin too grainy to be real. Didn't look at anything else. I'm guessing a bad cast counterfeit.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
The photos are horrible for starters. So I won't condemn it w/o better photos. Seeing the color of the "red" is important too. Imo a very good counterfeit if that's what it is. 2C pieces often come with mushy details in the leaves. Showing the reverse on the main photo is not that big a deal to me since so many people don't even know what a 2C piece is. It could also be the side that has the brightest red color. Maybe the obverse is a R/B? The seller had over 1000 FB's with 100% rating. Other offerings seem to suggest a regular low budget item dealer on the up and up. I don't see anything nefarious.
I'll break with the mob and "lean" towards this being REAL....at least the REV side photo looks real. I don't see the cartoonish look so often seen on fakes. Appear to be long circular die scratches on the lower reverse rim area. If you can see die cracks and die polish I'd lean towards real. How many Chinese fakes will have those? And nearly all 2C piece seem to have die cracks. The "U" in TRUST seems a tad larger in size....then again that's how they were made at the US Mint. The date does seem a tad crude and chunky. Something I'd want to see in hand to more closely check out the OBVERSE.
Certainly wouldn't buy this raw on Ebay w/o more details/info. In hand at a coin shop or on the bourse floor....no problem.
i appreciate that. a discussion and/or debate is a good learning experience for all and for my part have no problem stating why i am against or for an item.
a lot more than you'd think until you start getting some quantity in-hand or really high-quality images. i used to think the same thing but started seeing clashing, die polishing, gouges, breaks, chips, rpd/rpm, machine doubling etc etc. - it was/is a real eye-opener.
i would lean towards high-quality die casts as not having concentric/lathe lines which may be a good way to distinguish high quality casts from die-struck. i'm not confident enough to say which is which from quality pieces but the concentric lines for sure do say something important. i think i have enough images in my database to about 95% say that i can show virtually everything seen on us coinage will be seen on counterfeits. so long as i'm given enough rope to show any kind of counterfeit that has crossed my hands/eyes/loupe. i don't say that joyously though.
i'll post this side-by-side as the next step and i thought about doing it sooner but didn't. side-by-side is probably one of the best methods, especially for online.
images coming shortly......