Make an Offer Question
bigmarty58
Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
When a dealer includes "Make an Offer" for a coin, generally what is a good percentage to subtract from the list price keeping in mind that the offer is fair to the dealer and buyer.
Thank you.
Enthusiastic collector of British pre-decimal and Canadian decimal circulation coins.
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I have heard 5%-10% is reasonable to request. If the coin has been on eBay for weeks and the auction is about to expire, I think one can make an even more aggressive offer.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Every coin is different. Look at auction history and price guides. Often I will see the exact coin sold at auction within the last few months to a year. If the dealer bought it at that auction then they will likely need to make something off of it. Another option is to just call or email the dealer ask what they can do on the coin. Have them tell you their best price after you have done your research and then you can easily make a decision.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
There is no good general answer. Among other considerations, it depends upon the nature of the coin. For example, is it bullion, generic, rare or esoteric, etc.? It also depends upon the asking price and how it compares to what such coins have been selling for.
In some cases, countering by more than 5-10% off might be making an unfair offer. In others, countering by 25% could be generous.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I recently made an offer to NEN on a coin for 15% off the asking price. It was accepted.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Asking the dealer for his best price in that situation, rather than making an offer, is asking him to negotiate against himself. Understandably, a lot of sellers - dealers and collectors - don’t like that.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They don’t like it because it is rule number 1 in negotiation. The person that speaks first, loses...or is often the case anyway. I know many dealers that list things on their websites much higher than is reasonable but if you call them and say that you might be interested in an item they will automatically tell you their best price. You can then make the immediate decision as to move forward with a transaction or to look elsewhere.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
It's a good question, although of course, it begs the question, "What constitutes fair?"
What if the asking price is noticeably high, but the item is desirable at what would seem a more market acceptable price? There is always a ton of stuff that seems to recycle at the most generous of asking prices, and you wonder when it does finally disappear into the abyss, what it really sold for, and to who. Sometimes I ask myself, "I wonder if I offered 70% of their ask, would they take it?" I mean, I'd have to really want it to make the offer, and that offer might be more than "fair" in my mind, but ...
Like anything an Offer is the start of a negotiation. Usually I hesitate or decline to offer when my max price isn't going to get within about a 20% to 25% threshold, and even that seems a stretch sometimes. Even if I'd like to, I figure at that point I'm probably out of their ballpark, whether their ballpark is reasonable to me or not. And I don't want or need to spend energy or set aside the money on a fruitless endeavor.
None of that takes into account the "widget-ness" of the offering. If we got reasonably close I would rarely ever split hairs over something like a 94-O Choice AU Dime, but on something more like a 38-D Choice Unc Nickel, I would probably have a price I was willing to pay, and I wouldn't budge much, if at all. And like Mark says above, that doesn't even take into account the really esoteric stuff.
One last thought I consider when dealing with eBay (or any other third-party site). I know the fees take up a lot. I haven't sold there in forever, but I think the seller is already taking about a 8% shave on most items (between listing, value and payment fees). And if you live in a state like the one I live in, anything under a certain amount is getting sales tax attached. So, there would be at least a 15% spread between my final cost (which is calculated into my offer) and the sellers net (which I am sure he/she is calculating into their acceptance). Similar to all other venues with fees for offering and payment processing, that money is gone from the new owner and from the seller, and in the end none of us like that I don't think. Probably the reason the BST and the CircleOfTrust-type concepts are so popular, when they work.
Anyway, that is to say I don't begrudge someone making money. Whether it's a few bucks, or even a lot of bucks. I may not know what the seller paid, but It is frustrating to see examples listed at 35 to 50+% over what top realized prices for the example have brought, especially when the example offered has sold within the last year. I mean you (probably) bought it in January for a strong market price, and you listed it in May for +50%? Really?!
ramble, ramble ... man that was good coffee! I better take a walk!!!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Also, you don’t have to literally ask a dealer what their best price is in order to accomplish close to the same thing.
I called a national dealer a couple of weeks ago. They had an item at $975 on their website. I said I could be interested in xyz item and what could they tell me about it. They placed me on hold, got the item in hand, told me a little and then said they could do $850 on it. I said I would take it. It is sometimes just making the right inquiry and people will offer you a better price. I did not have to literally ask, “What’s your best price?” It’s all about communication. If you don’t ask or even strike up a conversation then you will never know.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Don't try too hard to divine the seller's thoughts. Make an offer you are comfortable with. If you are even in the ballpark of what they're looking for they'll probably negotiate. Don't stretch more than your comfortable with, it's a hobby.
Also note that sellers are less likely to come down on "fresh" items.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
I don't go by the seller's price. Research the prices. Recently a seller had a coin on eBay I was interested in that according to a few auction records and PCGS was worth a few hundred and had recently sold for such. He was asking several thousand. I made made what I felt was a very fair offer based on the research (higher than the researched prices) and was of course declined. That's ok, it's just how it goes.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Serious pet peeve, though: I generally list items below recent comps. If something doesn't sell, I might put it on sale at 20% to 30% off my already low price.
And inevitably someone makes an offer...at 30%, 50%, or even less than that new sale price.
I rejected, without comment or counter, an offer last night that was 50% of a sale price. This morning I got a nasty email from that individual. And promptly blocked them.
--Severian the Lame
The flip side of this is that, if you research prices and find that the item is already reasonably priced, don't be surprised if your 25% off offer is declined.
I know what I am willing to pay for an item (based on knowledge, condition, availability). If an item is priced a lot more, I just pass....If very close I will pay it - If within reason, I will ask for best price. I will definitely negotiate home or car prices (and I am good at that)... but for trinkets, my time is more valuable. Cheers, RickO
The trick with any 'make an offer' transaction is for neither side to be insulted.
A seller is always trying to get as much as he can and a buyer needs to pay as little as he can.
My wife is far better at this game than I, but if someone says make an offer you should expect he knows he has overpriced the item so you can go low for your first offer. Do not feel bad about 50 or 60 percent to stat with. how far he lowers his next price helps tell you what he wants and it becomes a bit of an art form from here.
I don't think 15% is bad at all.
I contacted a seller once when he had an item listed for about double what all prior sales and pricing resources would suggest. I asked if there was anything special about the item that would cause it to be worth so much more. We had a good back-and-forth, with seller basically ceding that he's trying to find an uninformed buyer. He was buying at retail and adding a healthy profit margin to set his sell price. Suspect he still has the item in question, and many more.
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Also, I have been ignored (or worse, chewed out, blocked, insulted) for making very reasonable offers - within a few dollars or % of ask. I don't tend to buy very rare items.... so I just move on if it is not priced close. Not worth the frustration. I have never called an online dealer to haggle - I just dont buy if the price isnt right.
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As said It all depends, perhaps the seller is fishing for a sucker but willing to accept a reasonable offer. Earlier this year I purchased an item for $225 the was listed at $550. The trend line for auction results was moving down with the last two auction sales at $190 and the prior two at a $250 avg, this was for a somewhat lower pop post 1965 coin. So even a 50%+ lower offer can be reasonable, do your research, know the market and decide what is a fair price to you.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Of course.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I make a low enough offer to try to talk myself out of the purchase.
If they accept, cool.
In a case like this, I wouldn't even bother to waste my time making an offer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Same, here. If a seller is asking that much over the price he’s willing to accept, I’d rather not deal with him. Instead, I’d rather direct my efforts to those who don’t appear to be taking shots.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To me, make an offer means make an offer. I recently made the same offer on basically the same coin to a few different sellers. The one that took it got my money. The ones that didn’t, kept their coins for another customer. We all won.
My offer was on the low side, but well within reason for me to purchase. If they were in it for too much to sell to me, they declined. No emails or insults were exchanged.
For most people, no reasonable offer is refused. It’s the definition of “reasonable” that’s the problem.
This example is not the first time I have done this with multiple ebay sellers, many on that platform are looking for people with little to no information. Some are willing to fish forever some are willing to let it go if its been fishing for awhile, I had previously made a slightly lower offer for this coin three months earlier. Interestingly there is another of that date/mm by another seller (who is asking even more) whom I also made an offer on at the same time I made my original offer on the coin I bought, he was quite irate but was willing to let me have a deal for $315 which was a 60% discount to his asking price. I believe he still has that coin for sale.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
That is a solid strategy. When the first question I hear is the what is your best price, it does suggest that the buyer wants me to negotiate with myself. I’ve tried to reply with a 5%-10% discount (which is usually the amount of room I leave for an offer) and often the buyer just disappears without even a thanks but I’ll pass. That is why I’d rather have the buyer make an offer and I can judge from there (and I will respond).
I'm in the "if the BIN isn't in the ballpark, pass" camp. I guess I might make an exception for a really scarce or rare item that I've been searching for. I've been working on a seller (on VCoins) for four years off-and-on for a scarce medal that's way over priced. He will die with it and I may die without it.
A lot of good perspective above. Here are a couple of things that not been mentioned.
1) keep in mind that Ebay likes to add the Make Offer option to all/most listings so the seller may not even realize it's active.
2) add the item to your "watch list." The seller will know people are watching and if they are anxious to cut a deal they will send you a special offer. Happens to me all the time.
But I still want it!
Seriously, I tailor an offer to the coin. Even more so than the grade, slab, or sticker. I know I paid "too much" for that exceptionally lustrous Pan Pac 50c but I'm familiar with the issue and it had more pizzazz than any I've seen in 40 years of practicing this idiocy.
Sure, I did a "best offer" but I adjusted it to where I pretty much knew it would "work."
It did.
Yes, I've had sellers email me on offers saying essentially "What the....??"
Which is precisely why so many sellers boost their asking prices by 10-100% over current market....to be able to immediately drop their price and still get their minimum net price.
I recently bought some items from one seller with an initial $950 asking price. After they dropped their price to $650 within the week, I countered with $500 and got them. LOL....as it turned out one item was considerably over-graded and we agreed to net that down from $90 to $20. Saved on us both from having to deal with a return.
I hate that, "What's your best price" pap. Had it too often at shop and shows.
Almost as ubiquitous as "I'll be back around" to the equally irritating "Can I show you something" that pops up 7 milliseconds after you GLANCE at a table.
When I call a dealer for "best price" I always START the call with, "If paying by check ....today......and no PP fees, what would YOU sell me xxxxx for?"
Do research and offer what you think it’s worth. See what it’s sold for previously, if it has. If they decline your offer, so be it.
There’s several coins on eBay right now that I really want and have made offers for. They’re still sitting there years later because they won’t budge...
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Thanks for the advice. I am going to call the dealer and discuss with them to:
1. Develop a relationship.
2. Hopefully come away with the coins (Victorian Copper) that I like at a fair price.
eBay's a poor venue for offers. A dealer with a location, website, reputation in the field, and good inventory .....
............................ KNOWS..................................
what works and what doesn't.
SOME eBay sellers have all that but many are....trying.... to dump dreck.
The only problem with trying to calculate a "fair" or "market" price is that you don't know if the seller is looking to sell at a "reasonable" price or how much they have in the coin.
irrelevant
If you’re trying to offer a “reasonable” price, the seller’s cost and the amount he’s asking, are largely irrelevant.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have done that successfully several times...I think it boils down on the ammo you have to fire and if it is asked tackfully!
You oughtta try selling seashells! I have had quite a few that I get lowball offers on and PM's trying to tell me my shell is only worth X and then I sell for what I want and feel is fair. On the last one the buyer even threaten to report me to ebay because my price was extortionate. His offer was $100.00, a few weeks later I sold it for $460.00. Go Figure!
But not to the seller..
If they overpaid and refuse to take a loss, for example, then their idea of reasonable will be different.
Comes down to personal choice, like the collectors that wont look at coins not in a certain brand of plastic and without a sticker. I prefer not to limit myself where others find limitations useful, both methods have pros and cons.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I agree. there’s a few great looking coins in my price range that are severely overpriced and the seller won’t communicate 😴
This is why there are about 3-5 dealers or collectors that I go to and don’t even bother with most, including a lot of big names, which I find unfortunate.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Sometimes I make an offer just for the heck of it. If it’s accepted, great, I got it for a price I was willing to pay, if not no loss. My most extreme example was a foreign coin set listed for $12,000, on “sale” for $5000, offered the real value of $300 and was accepted. Sometimes the big numbers are there for shock value and word of mouth. You’ll never know unless you try.
Agreed, but that’s still largely irrelevant, in coming up with a “ reasonable” offer. In the circumstances you described, you’re not going to meet his price, just because he thinks it’s reasonable. Instead, you’ll likely make a reasonable offer that will be refused.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The fact that an ebay seller includes a "make offer" with his buy it now price tells me he knows he has overpriced the coin. My rule of thumb is to offer 10% less than what I think the coin is worth. He can always counter the offer but I never accept a counter offer that is more than what I think the coin is worth.
Also, note that the seller will normally hold his decision until the last minute to see if he gets a better offer. For this reason I also include the following stipulation "offer expires in X hours." When that time arrives I withdraw my offer.
As a seller I never include a "best offer" option; my buy it now is always the lowest amount I will accept for the coin. This keeps my prices competitive and ensures I do not sell the coin for less than what I want for it. If it doesn' t sell, so be it.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I frequently politely message sellers and ask them “What is your best Make Offer price?” ..... easy.
You can also find that out by making a lower offer (not a low ball offer) to which he has the option to counter with his best offer. In this case you stand the chance of getting it at your low offer which is likely lower than his best price.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
I do that with all world coins and just list them at KM as a rule. On US coins I do it on coins I'm ready to move on along and am willing to take my licks on.
As a seller I don't offer make offer on Ebay. I always do "Buy It now". The bait is out all you need to do is sit and wait for the right fish come to you.
When there is a make offer option with a buy it now listing, why would you not try to buy the item at a lower price? If the offer gets declined you can always then pay full price.
The ONLY time I bypass a "make offer" is when the buy it now is so low, I do not want to lose the purchase to another buyer.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong