Colonial Coins in Non-Colonial Collections

MidLifeCrisis

What colonial coin is most often collected by non-colonial collectors?

CoinJunkie

Fugio cent?

bidask

8 reales

MidLifeCrisis

@CoinJunkie said:
Fugio cent?

This would be my guess too.

MidLifeCrisis

@bidask said:
8 reales

I would guess that most non-colonial collectors aren't even familiar with the 8 reales, unfortunately.

keyman64

Besides the Fugio, I might vote for the 1787 Mass Cent as the first example of a US Cent struck? I had one for a while.

MidLifeCrisis

@keyman64 said:
Besides the Fugio, I might vote for the 1787 Mass Cent as the first example of a US Cent struck? I had one for a while.

Interesting. Maybe so. I hadn't thought of that.

1630Boston

@MidLifeCrisis said:
What colonial coin is most often collected by non-colonial collectors?

Great thread, thanks for thinking of this topic

MidLifeCrisis

@1630Boston said:

@MidLifeCrisis said:
What colonial coin is most often collected by non-colonial collectors?

Great thread, thanks for thinking of this topic

You're welcome. What's your answer to my question?

1630Boston

@keyman64 said:
Besides the Fugio, I might vote for the 1787 Mass Cent as the first example of a US Cent struck? I had one for a while.

I fully agree with your thinking and although I have less than 50 graded coins now ......I DO have this one:

TurtleCat

No idea but the only colonial coin that has any real interest to me is a nicely struck pine tree. Maybe one day I’ll buy one.

I don’t personally consider the 8 reales and similar to be colonial, even though they were used more than just about anything else. For me, it would have to be struck in North America before 1789 and preferably before 1776.

BillJones

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@bidask said:
8 reales

I would guess that most non-colonial collectors aren't even familiar with the 8 reales, unfortunately.

It’s shown been close to the fly leaf page of “The Red Book” since the first edition.

MidLifeCrisis

@TurtleCat said:
No idea but the only colonial coin that has any real interest to me is a nicely struck pine tree. Maybe one day I’ll buy one.

I'm a pretty big fan of nicely struck pine tree shillings, but for many they are prohibitively expensive.

keyman64

This was mine...auction images.

MrEureka

Certainly nor Fugios or Mass Copper. Those aren't colonials.

TurtleCat

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@TurtleCat said:
No idea but the only colonial coin that has any real interest to me is a nicely struck pine tree. Maybe one day I’ll buy one.

I'm a pretty big fan of nicely struck pine tree shillings, but for many they are prohibitively expensive.

Most are for me as well. If I get one, it would probably be in VG-VF grade but there are some that are pleasing and not too damaged in that range.

MidLifeCrisis

@BillJones said:

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@bidask said:
8 reales

I would guess that most non-colonial collectors aren't even familiar with the 8 reales, unfortunately.

It’s shown been close to the fly leaf page of “The Red Book” since the first edition.

Yes, I thought of that as I was writing my post but I decided that it still didn't change my opinion. I may be wrong though.

1630Boston

@keyman64 said:
This was mine...auction images.

That is one great xf45 cent

1630Boston

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@TurtleCat said:
No idea but the only colonial coin that has any real interest to me is a nicely struck pine tree. Maybe one day I’ll buy one.

I'm a pretty big fan of nicely struck pine tree shillings, but for many they are prohibitively expensive.

Again with ** less than 50** graded coins I like this one:

oldabeintx

I'm one of those collectors who start at the bottom and work my way up. Ready for the shilling, but I hesitate because they appear at auction so frequently. Any HA auction and there are a bunch, although a nice one is admittedly uncommon as I dig through them. The one posted above is amazing, must have taken some patience to find that beauty.

PerryHall

@MrEureka said:
Certainly nor Fugios or Mass Copper. Those aren't colonials.

Agree. They were struck after the colonial period which ended on July 4, 1776. The only actual coin struck during the colonial period is the 1773 Virginia half penny. All other "coins" were tokens. Even the Massachusetts silver tree "coins" were struck illegally which is why they had to freeze the dates to hide the fact they were still being made. Only the British treasury had the authority to issue coins in their colonies.

CoinJunkie

@PerryHall said:

@MrEureka said:
Certainly nor Fugios or Mass Copper. Those aren't colonials.

Agree. They were struck after the colonial period which ended on July 4, 1776. The only actual coin struck during the colonial period is the 1773 Virginia half penny. All other "coins" were tokens. Even the Massachusetts silver tree "coins" were struck illegally which is why they had to freeze the dates to hide the fact they were still being made. Only the British treasury had the authority to issue coins in their colonies.

OK then, that one gets my vote.

keyman64

@PerryHall said:

@MrEureka said:
Certainly nor Fugios or Mass Copper. Those aren't colonials.

Agree. They were struck after the colonial period which ended on July 4, 1776. The only actual coin struck during the colonial period is the 1773 Virginia half penny. All other "coins" were tokens. Even the Massachusetts silver tree "coins" were struck illegally which is why they had to freeze the dates to hide the fact they were still being made. Only the British treasury had the authority to issue coins in their colonies.

Okay, so, if items prior to July 4, 1776 were Colonials and items after 1792 or 1793 are US Coins, what are the items between those dates? Post Colonial Issues of the United States? They all aren't tokens. Some were speculative issues? I know little to nothing about these so my question is serious. Thank you.

PerryHall

@keyman64 said:

@PerryHall said:

@MrEureka said:
Certainly nor Fugios or Mass Copper. Those aren't colonials.

Agree. They were struck after the colonial period which ended on July 4, 1776. The only actual coin struck during the colonial period is the 1773 Virginia half penny. All other "coins" were tokens. Even the Massachusetts silver tree "coins" were struck illegally which is why they had to freeze the dates to hide the fact they were still being made. Only the British treasury had the authority to issue coins in their colonies.

Okay, so, if items prior to July 4, 1776 were Colonials and items after 1792 or 1793 are US Coins, what are the items between those dates? Post Colonial Issues of the United States? They all aren't tokens. Some were speculative issues? I know little to nothing about these so my question is serious. Thank you.

PCGS Coin Facts web site break down post colonial issues as States Coinage, Private and Regional Issues, Proposed National Issues, Washington Pieces, Libertas Americana Medals, and Fugio Cents.

MidLifeCrisis

I did not respond to @MrEureka because I really didn't want to engage in this debate. However, if we must define "colonial" for this thread, then...I wouldn't get too caught up in the debate about what coins are actually colonial, pre-colonial, pre-federal, etc. I like to use the PCGS EARLY AMERICAN COINS AND TOKENS BASIC DESIGN SET (1616-1820)

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/complete-sets-1616-1820/complete-sets-1616-1820/early-american-coins-tokens-basic-design-set-1616-1820/composition/1457

The set consists of the following coins, some of which are not "American" at all, or are Conder Tokens, or never even circulated in North America, but they have traditionally been accepted as "colonial coins" for many years:

Massachusetts Silver Oak Tree
Massachusetts Silver Pine Tree
Maryland Coinage
New Jersey St. Patrick Coinage
American Plantation Token
Rosa Americana Coinage
Woods Hibernia Coinage
Virginia Coinage
Elephant Token Halfpenny
Higley Copper
Voce Populi Coinage
Pitt Token
Rhode Island Ship Medal
Chalmers Coinage
French Colonies Billon Coinage
French Colonies Sou 1767
Continental Dollar
Nova Constellatio Copper
Immunis Columbia
Massachusetts Copper
Connecticut Copper Bust Left
New York Excelsior
Machin’s Mills Copper
Nova Eborac Copper
New Jersey Copper Head Right
Vermont Copper Plow
Vermont Copper Bust Right
North American Token
Bar Copper
Auctori Plebis Token
Mott Token
Kentucky Copper
Franklin Press Token
Myddelton Token
Castorland Medal
Talbot Allum & Lee Cent
Washington Triumpho Token
Washington Military Bust
Washington Draped Bust
Washington 1791-95 'Washington President' Obverse
Washington Undated Liberty & Security
Washington Success Medal
Fugio Cent

1630Boston

@MidLifeCrisis
I think you have defined your thread.
I like it.

TitusFlavius

A Massachusetts cent is high on my want list, as the first appearance of the word "Cent". I don't remember if they actually predate the Fugios, but I'll have that Ben Franklin design represented by a fractional Continental note. History is fun!

ricko

I have long hoped to find a colonial era coin while MD'ing. This area was settled in the late 1600's, so it is certainly possible....That is one reason I seek out old mountain cellar holes or rock walls...So far, no luck... but good exercise. Cheers, RickO

Baley

@MidLifeCrisis said:

@1630Boston said:

@MidLifeCrisis said:

What colonial coin is most often collected by non-colonial collectors?

Great thread, thanks for thinking of this topic

You're welcome. What's your answer to my question?

I collect US type coins and a couple of series, my only colonials are a Fugio cent, a Mass cent, and a Nova. Have a few Conder tokens too.