A question regarding Great Collections imaging.
keets
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Now that both Stack's and Heritage link PCGS TrueView images where applicable, do you think it's time that Great Collections does the same??
A question regarding Great Collections imaging.
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
1
Comments
I find that the GC images can tend to be too bright and that the TV's more accurately represent the coins. If the images are available I think they would help. A link to the NGC cert page and possible image would also be nice.
How about adding a yes option without the qualification about quality? I have not recently purchased from GC, but my previous experience was that GC images and True Views were both inconsistent and hit or miss.
I have told Ian this in the past. Years ago, they allowed TVs to be shown in a listing as an extra image. Around 2014 maybe, GC/Ian stopped allowing TV images to be used in the listings because it caused an increase in returns.
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I would like to see both. Why not? Or at least indicate whether there is a TV out there.
How about adding a yes option without the qualification about quality??
my Poll, my questions. besides, it sort of answers itself.
I would like to see both. Why not? Or at least indicate whether there is a TV out there.
I'll take that to mean yes.
I typically do a manual check for a TrueView before bidding on a GC PCGS coin. It might be nice for them to include at least a link to the TV in the listing. Overall, I find the GC images to be of high quality, although no images are perfect. Whether the TV or GC images are "better" depends on the specific coin.
Wouldn't an increase in returns suggest that the TV were less representative and, therefore, lower quality.
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No, the opposite.
I would also like to see both.
Please explain how a more representative image would lead more people to return the coin. I don't see it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
No. I think it has more to do with coins like toned proofs, if I had to guess. If you look at a coin from most angles it looks dark and boring but then if you tilt it just the right way and have lights hit it just the right way then you get to see magical colors. People that buy coins expecting to see these magical colors from every angle are the issue. They get the coin in hand and see a dark blah coin...then return it because they bought it due to the TV which only provides one special angle.
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Interesting side effect of showing the images.
Returns aren't a big deal for Heritage or Stack's since they simply don't allow them.
A good question would be:
Would people prefer to have TrueViews if that meant elimination of returns?
I am not familiar with GC's latest policies as it has been a while and their images are so bad that I infrequently visit unfortunately. When you look at a dime or half dime...and they provide a slab photo only...no matter how much you try to zoom in you get to see a lot less coin than someone that is looking at the same sized image but it is a Morgan Dollar etc...the Dollar takes up a lot more real estate than a dime. The Slab image stays the same.
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--- I have told Ian this in the past. Years ago, they allowed TVs to be shown in a listing as an extra image. Around 2014 maybe, GC/Ian stopped allowing TV images to be used in the listings because it caused an increase in returns.
--- Wouldn't an increase in returns suggest that the TV were less representative and, therefore, lower quality.
--- No, the opposite.
WOW, this is confusing and doesn't make sense. here is how I understand the above:
--- GC at one time included TV's in their listings but they discontinued them after returns increased because the TV images were too good. that just doesn't make sense to me.
Read up to my other reply about toned proofs.
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PCGS owns TrueViews (or, at least they should). Another for-profit enterprise using PCGS's work should be off-limits.
Why should GreatCollections profit off of PCGS's labor.
Read up to my other reply about toned proofs.
so because people can't interpret images the choice to show less images helps to stop returns?? nonsense. what would stop returns is showing a more representative image which is what TV's do, unlike what I have come to see with the standard GC imaging which floods the coin with light.
It could happen if certain people consider TrueViews to be better than the coins in hand.
Why should GreatCollections profit off of PCGS's labor.
I'm sure there would need to be permission. have you looked at Heritage and Stack's, they do it??
If it is not representative, then it is not "good" in my book, even if it is pretty.
[NOTE: I have no idea whether the thesis here is even correct. Ian will have to clarify.]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
But if they are "better", they are not representative and not "good"...
???
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
The labor was paid for by the owner of the coin. Granted, PCGS owns the copyright, that is understood. If other auction houses can use the photos or population/pricing data then so can GC....now, maybe there is some type of license that is required from PCGS that GC doesn't want to pay for, not sure? The more coin photos the better in my book, especially if you are spending a lot of money. Don't you want to know as much as possible about what you are buying?
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By no means am I arguing with you. I agree that we need as many quality images as possible. I was just trying to provide some type of plausible reason is all. If I am spending a lot of money, I want to know as much as possible about my purchase...so I want to see quality images. A photo is worth a thousand words or however the saying goes?
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It's an opinion. Everyone has one.
It's not mine and certainly not that of many people, but if it's enough to increase returns it's something Ian has to consider.
Maybe @ianrussell will chime in to clarify questions/concerns? He has always been very nice and willing to answer questions and I think he runs a great operation. Heck, he has been very helpful to me in the past as well. That said, we are in 2020 and I think it is time for better photos, especially when it comes to smaller coins. TVs are the easy answer if the coin has a TV avaialble.
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This has been my experience. The TruView often tends to be the best case scenario for a coin (and sometimes is much better than the in-hand look). I've been burned on a few toned coins where I went with the TruView but the coin didn't live up to the photo (no matter how much I angled it or how much light was used). I still look at the TruViews but prefer to have another view of the coin.
As far as the original question, I'm perfectly fine without the TruViews in any auction listings. When I want to check, I just open the PCGS page and paste the cert number in (it might take an extra few seconds but that time might also be saved in loading the auction pages-which would probably take a bit longer if every TruView was added in).
I like GC's images. If you want to see the TueView; you can simply look it up for yourself.
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"I'll take that to mean yes."
Uh uh. The poll was either/or. If I had to pick, I would take the GC image. Answered "no".
look, I want to be clear: I'm not picking on Great Collections and have no "beef" with them. the point is simple, though, if it is a venue offering coins that interest me I would like help understanding exactly what I am buying. remember, this is sight unseen despite pictures. consider the following images, all of the same coin:
it should be clear what my concern is. with this particular coin I can go to PCGS because it's a "Gold Shield" which will have an image. with recent NGC slabs I can check there and maybe find help. it may not seem like a big deal because it really just entails some work on my part, but it can be a hassle going back and forth. in the end it shortens my time and probable purchases. the larger issue for me is that when I compare the images I have to accept that most other images will be way too bright and I don't really know what the coin(s) look like.
Interesting observation. I haven’t bothered to look into the TrueView licensing terms. I would think that paying for the TV would grant a non-exclusive transferable license to the current slab owner. However I can easily see it not being the case. I’ll have to read up on the terms later.
Found the terms:
So any sales venue would be within the license terms.
I always check for other images of coins I'm interested in.
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I have a feeling that people that think the GC photos are just fine are NOT focused on Dimes or Half Dimes. Remember, it is a slab photo so you end up with a much smaller COIN photo when looking at dimes and half dimes, $1 Gold etc....The blurry little thing that you get to examine is frequently worse than what you can get with a quality eBay seller that uses some lights and a cell phone...and that's saying something!
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I object to the “better quality “ phrasing, hence my vote.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Would you be okay if returns were eliminated like venues that use TrueViews?
I don't think there is direct causality there.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
The GC images can be bright, but some issues can be seen compared to Trueviews. I look up the history if Trueviews or previous auction images are available.
CLEARLY, it’s no contest, the TruView images are significantly better.
BUT, TruViews don’t have slab shots and I like seeing the slab, too.
AND, on those occasions when the TruView is a lame glamour shot of a CAM designated coin (thereby showing no cameo at all)....well those images 🤬
I think there is given Ian's reasoning for discontinuing TVs.
Direct causality so far:
Eliminating returns, we would have:
Rob41281 has an example over on the BST right now regarding this topic.
Good practice. If the number is showing, the Trueview is available.
I would rather just see larger format GC images - thats all I need.
WS
You are aware that one can click on the X at the bottom right corner to enlarge a GC image, right? You can also use ctrl-+ to enlarge it further from there.
GreatCollections vs TrueViews.
I prefer "HonestViews" (a combination of both?)
Added:
There are some wonderful photographers who sell their coins on eBay. Does the buyer of one of these coins then own the rights to the coin's photography?
(I vote "no"- you paid for the COIN not the PHOTO.)
There are two things here: owning the photos, and having a license to use the photos.
From my understanding, the buyer of an eBay item doesn't get ownership rights to or a license to use the photos from buying the coin but generally sellers don't prevent buyers from using the photos.
It is possible to get a license to use the photos from eBay. When sellers post photos on eBay, they must comply with eBay policies which grant eBay license to use and sub-license assets provided. That's how companies like WorthPoint list so many eBay photos. So, if you don't want your photos distributed outside your control, don't post them on eBay.
Has anyone considered taking the certification number and actually finding the TrueView image all by him/herself? Not too difficult people.
Already mentioned by several posters, including myself......
And I can't pile on in my own special way???
But you can have TVs with or without returns. You don't HAVE to eliminate returns to allow TVs
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
In general you can, but GC had TVs before and removed them specifically because they led to increased returns.
If the goal is to allow TVs and not lead to an increased number of returns, what would you suggest?