ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHERS, ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT THE SAME...Weekend Coin-test
coin4sale
Posts: 375 ✭✭✭
Sorry for the large files but wanted to give everyone the chance with the high resolution pics.
Given:
All three are 1878 Indian cents
all three are straight graded by pcgs
So this is a 2 part contest.
Guess the grades for all 3 cents., a,b,c
And for the less obvious question other than grade what make these different, and which is the "odd man out" because of it?
Contest runs until Sunday evening.
Score a perfect "trifecta" with 100% grading, and earn a double bonus prize!
Score a "quad" , with all 4 right answers and the prize will be worth over $100 retail!
If no one gets it 100%, will award to first posted and closest to actual grades. Prize TBD. It will be numismatic and certified.
Good luck!
CONTEST WINNER ANNOUNCED AND GRADES POSTED BELOW.
Comments
Center coin has no little lump on ribbon just over necklace?
62 Brown, 64RB, AU-55. The middle coin is different from #1 and #3, different dies but there must be something more subtle than that. Thanks for the contest, looking forward to the answers.
Thanks 4 the chance!
1. 63B
2. 65RB
3. 60RB
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Pouty lips on coin #1
Smirky lips on coin #2
Smiling lips on coin #3
All three grade MS63 BR
a. MS 62 BN
b. MS 63 BN
c. AU 55
...the middle one sticks out but I don't quite know why
1 MS64 Brown Not woodgrain finish
2 MS65 Red Woodgrain finish
3 MS63 RedBrown Woodgrain finish
Possibly DDR #3 or machine doubling on leaves.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
MS63BR, MS64RB, AU58BR. Middle one is missing the bump on ribbon.
No good at grading Indians but I would say the middle image is an MS65 RB "Longacre doubling" obverse.
Nice coins and photos.
All 3 in 58 holders
The middle one looks RB, but the third is probably missing a green bean whereas the other 2 have more of a shor
PF64
MS63
MS62
A is odd man out.
bob
62, 65, 55
Middle coin normal, other two have a misplaced date in the ribbon or some sort of die chip.
I REALLY like the first coin because it's a nice brown.
I kinda like the second coin (nix the redness and the green spot above the "F").
Not a fan of the third coin.
My guess is that they are all 1868?
1 Is an AU 58 brn
2 is a MS62(?) rd/brn?
3 is a AU 50(?) (brn?)
Tough quiz coin4sale.
64bn, 63rb, 55.
Second one no bump on ribbon.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
63BN
65RB (not like the others)
62BN
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A: MS60BN B:MS65RD C:AU50 B:does not have the "Dot" on the Long Ribbon All are very nice examples of the 1878 IHC.
a ms64bn
b ms65rb
c au58
Check for misplaced date. Didn't see it.
b lacking the raised dot on the ribbon.
Missed GTG. All 64 , middle RB, others BN.
Here’s what a “RD” example looks like:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1898-1c-rd/2201
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
All 63. BN,RB, BN.
Middle one different.
A. MS-62BN
B. MS-63RB
C. AU-58BN
Second one has a missing dot on the ribbon.
Collector
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Here I go.
A. MS-63BN
B. MS-64RB
C. AU-50
A - is the odd one out. The 'E' in CENT is different than all other E's in ONE CENT.
The serifs(s) of the top and bottom of the 'E' touch.
MS grades for me are hard, especially in pics.
I do see the other reasons mentioned.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Everything is all right!
Well, I think I will guess that they grade;
a = MS62BN
b = MS64+RB
c = AU58BN
And as others have also seen, I think b is the different coin, because of the lack of the die marker dot.
It's also different because of the designation (RB) and also if I'm right on the grade, because of the plus.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
58-Brn
62-RB
55 Brn
Www.killermarbles.com
Www.suncitycoin.com
MS63BN (of the three, this is the type of look that I like best on copper).
MS65RB (nice).
AU50BN (looks like it may have some environmental issues).
The coin at the top has a misaligned reverse die.
63BN
64RB
55
Third coin (lowest graded one) has a RPD.
MS60B
PF63RB
AU55RB
No dot on ribbon and I think it's a proof for #2.
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
63BN, 65RB, 62BN.....Center coin missing the raised bump on the ribbon....Cheers, RickO
Is there such a thing as a MS60RED either Indian or Lincoln cent?
Also, should I win, please forward my prize to M. Feld.
Yes, there is such a thing as 60RD for both types.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
no perfect scores as of yet....THE CONTEST CONTINUES
Thank you to all who participated. Although no one went 4/4 there were a lot who got part of the quiz right! It is very difficult to grade coins from photographs, especially copper coins, so no one should be discouraged by their guesses!
**The odd coin out is b, the middle coin, but the focus of the discussion is actually on the 2 other coins!
For the contest:
the actual grades:
a. 1878 1C, BN AU58+ ( love this coin)
b. 1878 1C, RB MS64RB ( like this coin)
c 1878 1C, BN AU53 (eh)
**
TOP DOLLAR WINS THE GRADING CONTEST. He was the most accurate, but it was very close! Several others like Raybo and 1Bufffan DESERVE HONORABLE MENTION for their sharp grading skills!
A special "Hats off" to those who figured out that coins A and C both have a dot die mark on the ribbon! This is actually what the thread is about!
A. the top coin, graded Au 58+ , is a coin i acquired about 10 years ago raw. When i bought it i noticed the little raised dot on the ribbon. I immediately thought it was special. This raised "lump" is about the size of one of the beads on liberty's necklace. It is rounded and well defined under magnification. The fact that it is also found on the ribbon -which is on one of the highest points of relief on the obverse,I though was also significant. When i acquired it I rushed home to look up the Snow variety! I eagerly turned to the 1878 section in Rick Snow's Flying Eagle and Indian cent attribution guide, and to my surprise, it was not referenced! My heart raced. I immediately though of the most famous dot cents in numismatics - the rare and valuable John Pittman examples of 1936 Dot cents (Canadian), that sold for 500K! What did i have?
Then a light bulb went off. I remembered reading a story in the Numismatist many years ago about a sting at the US mint that involved marking an Indian head cent die with a raised dot to nab a thief at the mint. As the story goes, at the end of a specific work shift at the mint, all employees were told to empty their pockets. One of the employees has the newly made marked pennies in his possession. It was surmised that they could have only come from him stealing them, as they were never released into circulation. I believe the mint employee was fired, and that was the end of the caper! Or maybe it wasn't!
Now, as some of you know that now famous "sting" actually occurred in 1875, and not 1878. In fact there are several 1875 Dot cents knows today, including several in Mint state. The dot on the 1875 cents is rounded and well defined and deemed intentional (just like this one i thought), except the 1875 dot is found on the reverse of the coin, on the N in ONE cent. The location of the dot on the 1875 cent is of importance because the N is one of the highest points of friction on the coins' reverse. I believe this "spot" was specifically chosen for the dot at the time because the inconspicuous dot die marker would quickly wear off after a few rounds in commerce, and no one would be the wiser! Most known 1875 dot cents are high grade where the dot has not had a chance to yet wear away. On even lightly worn coins it would probably wear away quickly and may not even be visible.
Ok , so we know that in 1875 the mint produced a dot cent. Could it be that the sting was so successful that they ran it again In 1878 ?
Well it took about 8 years but i finally located ANOTHER 1878 Obverse DOT cent, (coin C)! It was purchased raw, has a little corrosion spot, but PCGS deemed it grade worthy and it garnered the AU 53 grade.
Now that i have located 2 of them, i wonder how many more are out there? I tend to believe the dot on the ribbon is not just a die chip of coincidence. After all, the ribbon, like the the N on the reverse is one of the highest points of the coin, and would be the soonest to be worn away. Certainly a good place to hide an inconspicuous die mark! And what better way to throw off any employees who may have known about the trap a few years earlier, than to switch locations and sides?
So can we vote?
Is this a die chip that occurred by happenstance?
Or is it a more purposeful added mark?
perhaps time will tell!
Thanks for PLAYIING!
@coin4sale
Nice post but I am not sure why you did not mention the "Longacre Doubling" on the middle coin?
This effect is not actual "doubling" but a result of "tweaking" the Master Die.
The middle coin is an exceptional example.
@coin4sale Does coin A have some high point rub that knocked it down to a 58? Seems like awfully nice surfaces for an AU coin.
Excellent point Interueor. not to confuse the issue but yes, the Doubling on coin"b" does put it in a class by itself!
No diamonds on the ribbon of the bottom coin.