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1916 doubled die buffalo nickel, would you restore the date on this one or leave it alone?

BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 28, 2020 9:13AM in U.S. Coin Forum

I ask the following question -- if this were your coin would you restore the date or leave it alone? coin is identifiable by the doubling on the bottommost 2 feathers as well as the doubled and thickened ribbon tie directly above and a bit to the right
of the date. What would you do if you scored this while looking thru a pile of dateless so-called valueless buffs?

Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
«1

Comments

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a previous poster said, if you restore it, you lose 75%. PCGS will grade it as is, and my best guess is AG03 or G04. I have sent in two that looked worse than yours that graded AG03 and F02. I sold both for well north of $1k...

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You suck, naturally. The way that coin should stay.

  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leave it alone. The diagnostics are there and so is the date; at least I believe I can make it out.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Outhaul said:
    Leave it alone. The diagnostics are there and so is the date; at least I believe I can make it out.

    Leave it alone, Buff.......it has enough meat on the bone for a nice slab to rest in.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 616 ✭✭✭

    I agree leave it "as is" it is identifiable the way it is, and "acid date" would not help in the value, Nice find if found in so called "Junk"!!

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice find and sharp eyes... do not enhance the date...destroys the value and desirability of the coin. Cheers, RickO

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let's see, a dateless-but-attributable coin with honest wear, or the same coin with damage.

    What to do, what to do.... :#

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leave it.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do it! What if it is the BIG one? Lol. I'd DO it. :/

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have a great eye. Leave it alone.

    Vplite99
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is the big one!

    @joeykoins said:
    Do it! What if it is the BIG one? Lol. I'd DO it. :/

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 1:23PM

    @joeykoins said:
    Do it! What if it is the BIG one? Lol. I'd DO it. :/

    It can already be identified as an 1916/16 DDO by the doubling in the small feather and the large feather. PCGS will slab it as a 1916 DDO even if the date isn't visible based on this die marker. Using Nic-O-Date will ruin this coin and greatly reduce its value. This coin should be slabbed by a major grading service to greatly enhance its value.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I must be blind......I do not see a 1916 at all. :/ I do see the doubling on the small feather. :)

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's also strongly doubled on the ribbon ties. Note that the "doubling" on the nose and forehead are not characteristic of the doubled die. That is machine doubling. This variety comes in two die stages-one that shows this machine doubling and one that does not.

    I'd leave it alone.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How much of a market is there for a 1916/1916 Buffalo Nickel in that grade? I personally wouldn't make an offer on a coin like that. It is just too far gone.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @abcde12345 said:
    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

    The big question is "Will the major grading services slab these coins?"

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I personally would leave it as is!

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If they will slab a totally slick 1916 quarter I would say yes!

    @PerryHall said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

    The big question is "Will the major grading services slab these coins?"

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

    The big question is "Will the major grading services slab these coins?"

    The situation is similar to dateless 1916 Standing Liberty quarters. They slab those so they should slab a dateless 16/16. They can easily be attributed without a date.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    If they will slab a totally slick 1916 quarter I would say yes!

    @PerryHall said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

    The big question is "Will the major grading services slab these coins?"

    I was taking about those coins that had their dates restored. Will they straight grade these coins?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe I've seen them graded as AG03.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No!

    @PerryHall said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    If they will slab a totally slick 1916 quarter I would say yes!

    @PerryHall said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

    The big question is "Will the major grading services slab these coins?"

    I was taking about those coins that had their dates restored. Will they straight grade these coins?

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beat Ya! :#

    @koynekwest said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Seems like someone here posted a video not too long ago showing how to restore dates on Buffalo nickels without using etching acid in the date area. They turned out pretty good.

    The big question is "Will the major grading services slab these coins?"

    The situation is similar to dateless 1916 Standing Liberty quarters. They slab those so they should slab a dateless 16/16. They can easily be attributed without a date.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess you did! It was nearly simultaneous!

    PCGS has graded dateless 16/16 coins as FR02.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anything that is done to that coin will decrease its value. It is attributable as is. If someone needs to see a date on their coins and they had one of these, they should sell it and buy the same thing that someone else had impaired with acid or whatever process, for much less money.

  • JesseKraftJesseKraft Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 6:25PM

    It looks like the coin is already in an NGC holder.

    Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
    Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
    American Numismatic Society
    New York City

    Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
    Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would use the " Nic-a-Date" but very, very sparingly! I'd first take a small, small paint brush to it. Just a slight brush of acid, maybe only a tad acid is all you need? Maybe, even using a toothpick? The date should show by this tactic? Good Luck, if you decide to even attempt it? :*

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 3:22PM

    I should have added the following at the beginning. It is not my coin and it currently sits in a Stacks-Bowers auction
    where it has been graded AG03 by NGC The bid currently sits at $360.00 with over 22 days to go in the auction.
    I will keep this thread updated on the price now at $360 and $456 with the juice. Will update this thread periodically to report on
    increases.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These typically go for around a grand or a little more.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭

    About 35 years ago a long time store dealer in my area sold his shop and some of his lesser stock to an investor who then took over and continued running the shop. Included in the buy were many rolls of circulated Buffalo nickels. These rolls were of little interest to the new owner and just sat untouched for many years. Finally, around 2000, the store manager, who was not the owner, decided to look through the rolls of circulated Buffalo nickels. Most were very ordinary, but not all. In one of the rolls was a high circulated grade 1916/1916 Buffalo!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • AttumraAttumra Posts: 182 ✭✭✭

    Can I ask a newbie question? Why is it double die? It looks to me flat and shelf like on face or am I missing something? TY Still learning

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nobody saw the slab prongs on the OP photo?
    And you expect to see doubling on a 1916/1916 without a date?
    😆

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 5:12PM

    @DCW said:
    Nobody saw the slab prongs on the OP photo?
    And you expect to see doubling on a 1916/1916 without a date?
    😆

    Dave
    Yes you can see doubling, their is doubling on the right most outlines of the feathers and also the ribbon ties
    are strongly doubled. Especially the leftmost one. Also this coin exhibits machine or shelf doubling on the profile
    which is not the result of a doubled die. These features are the result of die doubling.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Attumra said:
    Can I ask a newbie question? Why is it double die? It looks to me flat and shelf like on face or am I missing something? TY Still learning

    The doubling on the Indians profile is not the result of die doubling but rather machine doubling.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joeykoins said:
    I would use the " Nic-a-Date" but very, very sparingly! I'd first take a small, small paint brush to it. Just a slight brush of acid, maybe only a tad acid is all you need? Maybe, even using a toothpick? The date should show by this tactic? Good Luck, if you decide to even attempt it? :*

    No matter how little you use it will leave traces and discoloring.

  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel your pain with a worn 6 but just leave it in the holder. Take a bow for your terrific find.

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    Nobody saw the slab prongs on the OP photo?
    And you expect to see doubling on a 1916/1916 without a date?
    😆

    Good eye, dude! I didn't notice. Lol.

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @joeykoins said:
    I would use the " Nic-a-Date" but very, very sparingly! I'd first take a small, small paint brush to it. Just a slight brush of acid, maybe only a tad acid is all you need? Maybe, even using a toothpick? The date should show by this tactic? Good Luck, if you decide to even attempt it? :*

    No matter how little you use it will leave traces and discoloring.

    Yes, I know Jon, but one can take care to a minimal damage, right? If you can just bring out the date, even just the 16/16, PCGS or whatever grading co. they would be satisfied.

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS should slab it without a date. It can easily be attributed without a date just like a 1916 SLQ. If you look on ebay there is a dateless 16/16 attributed as a FR02.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @joeykoins said:
    Do it! What if it is the BIG one? Lol. I'd DO it. :/

    It can already be identified as an 1916/16 DDO by the doubling in the small feather and the large feather. PCGS will slab it as a 1916 DDO even if the date isn't visible based on this die marker. Using Nic-O-Date will ruin this coin and greatly reduce its value. This coin should be slabbed by a major grading service to greatly enhance its value.

    this

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joeykoins said:

    @DIMEMAN said:

    @joeykoins said:
    I would use the " Nic-a-Date" but very, very sparingly! I'd first take a small, small paint brush to it. Just a slight brush of acid, maybe only a tad acid is all you need? Maybe, even using a toothpick? The date should show by this tactic? Good Luck, if you decide to even attempt it? :*

    No matter how little you use it will leave traces and discoloring.

    Yes, I know Jon, but one can take care to a minimal damage, right? If you can just bring out the date, even just the 16/16, PCGS or whatever grading co. they would be satisfied.

    You aren't listening. PCGS and everyone already knows it's 16/16 without damaging the coin. It will be worth LESS if you etch it with acid.

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 7:01PM

    Here is a 1918/7-d that was restored and is now for sale on eBay. The restoration job was very well done about the best I have ever seen. And this has certainly enhanced the value of this coin, the fact that it was very well done. And there is a way to tell that this is an 8/7 overdate by looking at the mintmark position. You could not sell this coin except for the date being visible. Mintmark position will not sell the coin. And there is also a small diebreak in the center of the obverse.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the reverse of this restored 8/7-d......

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looking at this dateless coin though the coin is really nice for the grade being dateless is like looking at a playboy playmate of the month who is standing behind a curtain with just her head showing.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 7:10PM

    Here is another 1916 doubled die for sale on eBay right now that has been completeley restored and the opening bid
    is $1500. I have seen some grading services grade coins like this as VF20 acid treated surfaces

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Here is another 1916 doubled die for sale on eBay right now that has been completeley restored and the opening bid
    is $1500. I have seen some grading services grade coins like this as VF20 acid treated surfaces

    Thank You! :)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.

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