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Take a stab at grading this 1913 type one buffalo nickel

BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

Take a stab at grading this 1913 type 1 buffalo nickel. I know it is hard to grade from just one picture but...........

Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
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Comments

  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 616 ✭✭✭

    With the toning it's a little tough to tell it could be a "Proof" if the wide rim and sharp edge, overall a nice type one! either way I'd say 65/66

  • CommencentsCommencents Posts: 349 ✭✭✭

    MS63 with clean surfaces.

  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭

    Hard to gauge the luster 66

    for sure a mint state (Look at the strike)

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. And the strike has nothing to do with whether it's Mint State or not. Most 1913 Var 1 are pretty well struck.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭

    Show me a proof Buffalo with a weak strike

    Nothing about that coin says Proof

    The surfaces are not proof, the rims are not proof, should I go on???

    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Weak liberty. MS64. Beautiful though!

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    64-65

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66 real nice toning!

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @segoja said:
    Show me a proof Buffalo with a weak strike

    Nothing about that coin says Proof

    The surfaces are not proof, the rims are not proof, should I go on???

    This is by far the worst matte proof I've seen. I would have been sure it is a circulation strike but it's slabbed as a proof. I sure wouldn't pay proof money for this thing. I wonder if it was mislabeled.

    I don't think the coin shown by buffnixx is a proof. If it is then it's the second worst one I've seen.

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not think it be Genuine. Look under the Indian's jawbone and on the cheek a roughness that looks like a bad casting that does not appear on Genuine coins.

    OINK

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is die fatigue on the coin, which should preclude it from proof status, among other things, as enumerated
    by segoja.

  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS64... Probably from an old PCI slab ???

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The granularity above the cheekbone and on the neck/chin area bother me....could be a rusted die, but that is just a guess.... I would say 63, maybe 64....Cheers, RickO

  • Tom147Tom147 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not going to offer a number. Better graders than me on here. However, I see a weak Liberty and date also seems a little weak. Thoughts ???

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020 5:53PM

    OK!! good input from all. This is currently in a Heritage auction and this coins graded MS68+! Along with these two pictures there are videos of the obverse and reverse and then 2 more pictures of the coin in the slab. This coin really baffles me.
    If you have time to visit Heritage just search on buffalo nickel ms68 1913 and you will be taken to it. I think it sits at $575
    right now. But me personally I do not understand the grade. It will be very interesting to see what the final price realized will be for this buff. Whomever “wins” this will be buying the slab and not the coin IMO.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020 7:04AM

    this is currently in a Heritage auction and this coins graded MS68!

    Unbelievable. I have been rendered almost speechless.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020 9:53AM

    WHEN I REVELAED WHAT THE GRADE WAS I MADE A MISTAKE! THIS IS IN AN MS68 plus holder, that is an MS68+
    Just a notch under MS69. Good Grief!!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a pcgs 1913 type one matte proof pr-68 for comparison

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    There is die fatigue on the coin, which should preclude it from proof status, among other things, as enumerated
    by segoja.

    Agreed. I think the coin is no more than a 63.

    I don't like the toning at all.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    WHEN I REVELAED WHAT THE GRADE WAS I MADE A MISTAKE! THIS IS IN AN MS68 plus holder, that is an MS68+
    Just a notch under MS69. Good Grief!!

    NO WAY JOSE!!! My towel is duly thrown in the ring.

    It would be better for peeps to explain WHY it is a 68+ than to try and explain why it isn't.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have called it 63/64 with muted/damaged luster in the outer fields.....potentially environmentally damaged. Apparently that luster has more life than what appears here.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Here is a pcgs 1913 type one matte proof pr-68 for comparison

    Looks like an NGC holder.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The previous two sales of this coin were as a 68 without a plus. https://www.pcgs.com/cert/25357868 -How is there no trueview of this coin?!?
    Legend even said they tried to get it into a plus holder but failed.. I guess someone had better luck than they did. https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/58323262/5c-1913-type-1--pcgs-ms68-cac/

    If we are ignoring die state as a grading variable the coin is surely very nice. I think what's throwing people off is the overall look being struck by a worn dies plus the(IMO unattractive) toning plus photo.

    @Tom147 said:
    Not going to offer a number. Better graders than me on here. However, I see a weak Liberty and date also seems a little weak. Thoughts ???

    Liberty was weak on all issues until 1916 but this one looks particularly weak, again I think because of the toning, die state, and photo.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never would have correctly guessed it.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 5,955 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020 1:30PM

    I think what's throwing people off is the overall look being struck by a worn dies plus the(IMO unattractive) toning plus photo.

    Where is the justification for MS68 then? The features on an MS68, to include LIBERTY, should be razor sharp imo. What am I missing? The toning is not doing anything for this piece to warrant a lofty MS68 designation, also imo.

    plus? ay yi yi

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well the obvious explanation for the 68+ grade is that no one on this forum can grade. Without TPG's we would all be lost........

    OINK

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020 2:47PM

    @mr1874 said:
    I think what's throwing people off is the overall look being struck by a worn dies plus the(IMO unattractive) toning plus photo.

    Where is the justification for MS68 then? The features on an MS68, to include LIBERTY, should be razor sharp imo. What am I missing? The toning is not doing anything for this piece to warrant a lofty MS68 designation, also imo.

    plus? ay yi yi

    "LIBERTY" is never sharp on pre-1916 Buffs, even the proofs. The dies were reworked in 1916 to strengthen and modify some details. Sharpening LIBERTY is one of them. Compare liberty on these 1913 Var 1 and 1916 proofs-


  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mr1874 said:
    this is currently in a Heritage auction and this coins graded MS68!

    Unbelievable. I have been rendered almost speechless.

    No, not just MS68 but MS68 plus!
    I too am somewhat speechless.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:

    @BUFFNIXX said:
    Here is a pcgs 1913 type one matte proof pr-68 for comparison

    Looks like an NGC holder.

    My error, it is an ngc holder

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Current bid on this coin is $2100.00 -- $2520 with the juice.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • CommemDudeCommemDude Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mechanical error. Twice.
    Assuming it will go for over 20K, I think I would prefer to own 25 MS67s or 70 MS66s if given the choice.

    Dr Mikey
    Commems and Early Type
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    UPDATE In the auction this coin currently sits at $2300 $(2760 with the juice). 12 and a half days left in the auction.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020 3:52AM

    UPDATE! in the Heritage auction this coin now sits at $5,250 ($6,300 with the juice). 8 days and 12 hours left in the auction.
    IMO this will go to a registry set where the holder is more important than the coin itself. Or rather I would say the grade on the holder. There cannot be many ms68 plus 1913 type ones available? What a absolutely stunning type one buffalo!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020 4:44AM

    Lets not forget the reverse!
    UPDATE! in the Heritage auction this coin now sits at $5,250 ($6,300 with the juice). 8 days and 12 hours left in the auction.
    IMO this will go to a registry set where the holder is more important than the coin itself. Or rather I would say the grade on the holder. There cannot be many ms68 plus 1913 type ones available? What an absolutely stunning type one buffalo!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would grade this NO better than a 64. WOW! Christmas Time for the owner, alright. :D

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very deceiving pics. They show zero luster, that I’m sure is booming, and makes the coin look raggedy to say the least.
    Deceiving

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,713 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am so happy that I'm not so driven to have a number one registry spot that the number on the slab is all that matters, that is the only reason I could see for anyone buying that coin.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020 12:23AM

    @crazyhounddog said:
    Very deceiving pics. They show zero luster, that I’m sure is booming, and makes the coin look raggedy to say the least.
    Deceiving

    If anyone wants to take the time go to the Heritage website and view this coin. They have two little videos where someone is holding the slab and rotating the coin to give it some flash. Still to me the coin does not look anywhere near what you might expect for a 68.
    (They have one video for each side of the coin.)

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2020 5:54AM

    UPDATE -- MAY 31ST.
    incredibly this coin now sits at $17,000 and $20,400 with the juice. 4 days and 10 hours left in the auction.
    I really find this hard to believe and I guess whomever gets this is really bidding to get an MS68+ grade
    regardless of what the coin actually looks like. Will try to report back here each day till its over. This will give us
    a good idea of what that little plus sign is worth on this coin.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • KccoinKccoin Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! From the videos on ha, this coin looks great. Super luster and thick toning. Let's see how high it goes

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was thinking high end gem when I saw the images. Toned can be rare on these.

  • EagleguyEagleguy Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    There is die fatigue on the coin, which should preclude it from proof status, among other things, as enumerated
    by segoja.

    "Proof status" ?

  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 1, 2020 8:17AM

    @Eagleguy said:

    @koynekwest said:
    There is die fatigue on the coin, which should preclude it from proof status, among other things, as enumerated
    by segoja.

    "Proof status” ?

    NOT a proof, and it is designated MS68+ on the slab insert by NGC Note that plus!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To be completely fair to this coin you have to go into the Heritage website and look at the two little videos that go with
    the static pictures which are included here. These attempt to show the coins flash, which I do not doubt is nothing but
    flashy.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is Heritage’s description of the coin from there website

    1913 5C Type One MS68+ PCGS. CAC. As a first-year issue, the 1913 Type One was saved in rather large quantities by the collecting and non-collecting public. Consequently, several thousand have been certified through the Premium Gem level of preservation. MS67s are available with some searching, while examples such as the present one in the lofty grade of MS68 are rare. PCGS and NGC have graded only 63 at that grade level and none finer.

    A medley of crimson, orange-gold, lime-green, yellow-gold, and ice-blue toning cascades over the highly lustrous surfaces. The design elements are sharp, including the braid, horn and tail. No significant marks are apparent. Population: 31 in 68 (3 in 68+), 0 finer. CAC: 10 in 68, 0 finer (4/20).(Registry values: N1793)

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • stockdude_stockdude_ Posts: 456 ✭✭✭

    Thats called slab collecting. I collect coins

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting, the coin, with the same cert number, sold for $17k in a Legend auction last December as a MS68. The auction description says that they tried for a 68+ then but did not get it. I guess persistence paid off for the subsequent owner!

    >>>Legend Auction<<<

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It also sold for $21k in 2014, and the video is the same as for the current auction!

    >>>2014 Heritage Auction<<<

  • bombtech25bombtech25 Posts: 209 ✭✭✭

    Gotta add cinnamon powder to my doctoring kit.

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