I could be wrong..... But I don't think so

Moonman

I was having a discussion with a co-worker about all time great Quarterbacks. He had the audacity to bring up Joe Namath, I was floored. This guy was never great and if his "guarantee" didn't work out he would never be talked about. His career numbers suck, he never performed like a superstar and yet into the HOF he went. Why? I understand there is a "Character" aspect here and a sports personality that may have kept him on the map for some , but I feel like that is weak. In fact the only "character" part I remember is him being drunk on national television and hitting on the reporter on camera. I collect pretty much only HOF'ers and I cringe whenever I have to add this guy to my collection just because hes in the hall. Well He shouldn't be. My 2 cents, and rant over. I do feel better now in case you were wondering. Am I wrong? Change my mind.
Career numbers:
!43 games played
68 Wins
27,663 yds
173 TD
220!!!! int's
Passer rating 65.5

ScoobyDoo2

A different time and different game.... Terry Bradshaw stats sucked .. he will tell you that... completion % in the 50's ... forget comparing era's ... Namath is a HOF'er and that RC in '65 will only get more valuable in top grades... you take the best of the era's ... 4 superbowls and Bradshaw cant touch most QB's from the 90's and onward stat wise.... I get the gist of what your saying ... but different Era's are just like different planets....

DBesse27

Namath didn’t suck, but I’m in the camp that believes he’s overrated.

AFLfan

You cannot argue with those numbers. They are not the greatest. However, I have studied and collected the AFL since 1998, and gotten to know many, many former coaches and players. To a man they all talk about his influence on the game. Not so much that he was the party boy-type character, but that his will and bravado are what made the Jets great. The Titans/Jets were nothing before Namath got there, and then beat what was considered to be the greatest team in both leagues after he arrived. I once asked Lance Alworth about the proudest moment of his career. It wasn't the 1963 AFL championship or Super Bowl VI, nor was it him being the AFL MVP, league leader in receptions or making the Hall of Fame. It was when the Jets won Super Bowl III, because it legitimized the AFL as a league. Additionally, Namath had a tremendous effect on the game, the merger...

Don't get me wrong. I still don't think that he should have been named the First Team All-AFL quarterback, nor should Weeb Ewbank be the head coach of that squad. I think that Len Dawson and Hank Stram should have received those honors.

Intangibles are by definition immeasurable, but that does not mean that they are unimportant. You might say that in addition to Super Bowl III and those numbers, Joe Namath had "it."

doubledragon

I'll give Willie Joe credit, he's the only quarterback who could get away with wearing a fur coat and pantyhose.

rexvos

Also first quarterback to throw for 4000 yards. Plus he played in an era with 12 and 14 game seasons.

Moonman

Well I have to admit, you guys have brought up some good points. I can honestly say I may have been too harsh in my assessment. I stand by my statement that he doesn't belong in the hall. I did not take into consideration the shorter schedule, and that would, and did make a big difference. Todd, you pointed out a fact that I already knew but forgot in my rant. It is about players that impacted/ changed the game. I did get a little caught up in the numbers. I will not, however be chasing after his cards. Good points everyone

doubledragon

I do have to say this, if the guarantee hadn't worked out, and the Colts had won Super Bowl III, then his legacy would be a lot different. Let's face it, that guarantee is a HUGE part of how he is looked at.

JoeBanzai

@Moonman said:
Well I have to admit, you guys have brought up some good points. I can honestly say I may have been too harsh in my assessment. I stand by my statement that he doesn't belong in the hall. I did not take into consideration the shorter schedule, and that would, and did make a big difference. Todd, you pointed out a fact that I already knew but forgot in my rant. It is about players that impacted/ changed the game. I did get a little caught up in the numbers. I will not, however be chasing after his cards. Good points everyone

I have to give you credit for moderating your opinion! That's pretty rare around here.

If you really want to know how great he was grab this off of ebay. Great read. He certainly belongs in the HOF.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Namath-A-Biography-2004-Joe-Namath-Mark-Kriegel/114216098857?hash=item1a97cf5c29:g:gF8AAOSwVcpemLS~

The guy came into the league with bad knees and still amazed everyone he played with or against. Got the living c#@p beat out of him while he did it!

@doubledragon said:
I do have to say this, if the guarantee hadn't worked out, and the Colts had won Super Bowl III, then his legacy would be a lot different. Let's face it, that guarantee is a HUGE part of how he is looked at.

Not to people who really know about him. I am not at all saying he was a top 10 all time QB. If he would have had good knees.......we will never know.

sayheywyo

Charisma, large city, marketing, the "what if" factor, '65 Topps iconic card. I guarantee it........ who could not like a guy named Joe vs Francis???

coolstanley

Most of the 70's QB's didnt have great regular season stats. It amazes me that Joe threw for 4000 yards in that era.

gonzer

What Joe did at the time was unique in the football world. The guarantee against the Colts was mind-blowing in it's sheer audacity. I remember watching Baltimore that season, they were a juggernaut. Unstoppable. Joe's actions brought a new audience to the game and changed the perception of what was possible on the horizon. Being the first to pass for over 4000 yards also helped his image. Remember, image is everything in the entertainment world and the rewards follow.

Cs223406

4000 in that era is like 6500 today.

JakeR2234

Boggles my mind how much his RC is worth. Never did I find it appealing being odd sized and agree he as a player is vastly overrated.

Horse

"In fact the only "character" part I remember is him being drunk on national television and hitting on the reporter on camera."

That is what solidified my idolizing of the man. Not the player stats, or the fur coats. It's just that anyone who pulls of being totally drunk and hitting on chicks while being interviewed in front of a nationally televised audience is a sure fire first ballot hall of famer in my book. NICE WORK JOE !!! Legendary.

JoeBanzai

@gonzer said:
What Joe did at the time was unique in the football world. The guarantee against the Colts was mind-blowing in it's sheer audacity. I remember watching Baltimore that season, they were a juggernaut. Unstoppable. Joe's actions brought a new audience to the game and changed the perception of what was possible on the horizon. Being the first to pass for over 4000 yards also helped his image. Remember, image is everything in the entertainment world and the rewards follow.

Any athlete can only do what they do "at the time". In all these debates, people often try to make (unprovable) claims about how a guy would do now, that's really just silly.

Namath was doomed to having a short career right from the start. His knees were bad before he played a single professional game. Add to it the fact that QB's were hit unmercifully at the time and he was never going to last. It's a near miracle he played for 13 seasons. He was really never the same after the 1971 knee injury.

The "guarantee" was discussed in great detail in the book I posted a link to above.

Basically Namath (who was famous for watching lots of film) saw a weakness in the Colts defensive scheme. After the team looked at the film a few times they had to stop watching it because "we figured if we watched it any more we would get too overconfident".

Namath got tired of all the questions about the Jets being such huge underdogs and simply said that they would beat the Colts. His "guarantee" wasn't even big news until after the game.

@JakeR2234 said:
Boggles my mind how much his RC is worth. Never did I find it appealing being odd sized and agree he as a player is vastly overrated.

Statistically speaking, his career appears unimpressive to the "new breed". If anything he is one of the most under rated players to ever play the game.

Scocs

I’m not comparing him to Walter Johnson by any stretch of the imagination, but he did play most of his career with a sadly mediocre franchise. I mean, his receivers — beside HOFer Don Maynard — were George Sauer, Eddie Bell, Richard Caster, and a bunch of other guys I couldn’t name without a football reference book.

I agree with the OP to a certain extent, but if you watch the Namath tv documentary, you will witness one of the gutsiest performers in sports history sling a ball sixty friggin’ yards downfield completely flat-footed and hit his receiver on a dime. A thing of beauty and wonder....

Moonman

I knew I would learn some things if I started this. All good perspectives, I don't agree with some, but good nonetheless

GreenSneakers

@JakeR2234 said:
Boggles my mind how much his RC is worth. Never did I find it appealing being odd sized and agree he as a player is vastly overrated.

Never underestimate the power of playing in NY, and the number of kids that grow up rooting for that team. The 93 SP Jeter PSA 10 isn’t a $100k card if Jeter played for any of the 5 teams that didn’t take him in the draft (Houston, Cleveland, Montreal, Baltimore, Cincinnati). But Jeter played for the Yanks, and the kids that glorified him now have the disposable income.

Same for Namath. Those that love him - and plenty more bring from NY - now have the income to support the value of his cards.

DBesse27

@GreenSneakers said:

@JakeR2234 said:
Boggles my mind how much his RC is worth. Never did I find it appealing being odd sized and agree he as a player is vastly overrated.

Never underestimate the power of playing in NY, and the number of kids that grow up rooting for that team. The 93 SP Jeter PSA 10 isn’t a $100k card if Jeter played for any of the 5 teams that didn’t take him in the draft (Houston, Cleveland, Montreal, Baltimore, Cincinnati). But Jeter player for the Yanks, and the kids that glorified him now have the disposable income.

Same for Namath. Those that love him - and plenty more bring from NY - now have the income to support the value of his cards.

Very astute. And it’s the same with the Mick. He was a great player, probably top 20 all time. But he and his card values get an additional boost from playing in NY.

1951WheatiesPremium

I think one think that helps him as well is that he was simply spectacular at Alabama. With the the popularity of college football and Alabama especially, he had a pretty big fan base AND legacy before he ever played an AFL game. He had one the all time great arms but football was a much more brutal game and every team did what they could to take his legs out on every single play. Late hits, dirty hits - you name it. He was actually very fast and elusive as HS and college star. I think his junior year was the ‘bad’ one that changed his speed and quickness levels.

One of the all time greats - without doubt.

Dan Marino before Dan Marino. But when Joe got there he pulled it off...