Is the value of something based upon the price you pay or at which you can sell?
cohodk
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Opinions of the collective wanted.
Excuses are tools of the ignorant
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I'd vote for what I can sell for.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Sell for ... trick question? Reference APMEX buy & sell spread. I would never sell my PM's at their BUY price.
Reference APMEX buy & sell spread.
The selling price is always to be negotiated. The spread is relevant, especially in times of volatility.
The value is based on how an asset compares to everything else of value. Hence, "value" is all relative - 100% relative.
I knew it would happen.
Depends on if one is selling or paying. As a seller, value is the price it will take to get the item out of my hands. As a buyer value is the limit of what I'm willing to pay. While price history affects the two different valuations, current price is where the above seller and buyer come to agreement.
Think bid, ask. Value is where a buyer and seller initially disagree. Price is where they agree. Latest price is normally where buyers and sellers will re-evaluate and then re-establish their individual values. The two valuations will normally rise and fall with prices.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Value, if owned, is a personal estimation first, and a market evaluation second... Often the first is larger than the second
Sometimes the price received will equal or exceed the owners evaluation.... That is when the buyer wants it more than the seller.... Value is relative, all based on perspective. Cheers, RickO
Value is based on supply and demand. At least it used to be.
A comparative value is what I'm seeking, as opposed to fair market value. Ratios do not seem to count anymore.
11 to 1 or 120 gallons of gas ? What's a buck here, or there ?
Value is subject and depends on why you are purchasing something. If I buy an item because I want to own it, then that is different than if I want to buy to sell it. I value my joy and as such I will pay X for an item, accepting that I will be able to sell it for X minus a percentage when (if) I am ready to sell. If buying to resell, my joy in ownig is replaced by my need for profit, then value is based on sale and my cost is needs to be less than. Granted in the setting of value of a fungible, the value I set needs to be equal to or less than other sellers.
The average market value is what the same item has been selling for.
Plus or minus are the different variables of Average.
So we've listed words such as...
negotiated
relative
average
comparative
estimation
evaluation
x +/- percentage
I think all of those terms are subjective. Anyone disagree? So in the absence of a "basis price" such as spot, how would we determine value? Suppose there was no futures market where "paper players" set a "price". How would physical holders determine value? Lets say there is no Ebay, since I doubt Apmex or MCM or JM Bullion base prices on Ebay, so how would derryb and ashland determine value of silver to effect a transaction?
To paraphrase rte592, how would "average market value" be determined?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Suppose, as quoted in the above thread is not applicable to your original question.
The sellers patience is a big contributor to the value of “something” they’re selling.
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The answer is never pay more then what you can immediately sell for.
Spot is a good number to watch, assuming we are talking items that are liquid. I.E. Platinum, Palladium, Slabbed Bullion, semi numismatic reversed proof, mint gimic coins all excluded. Regards!
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what am I supposed to learn from this question?
Since most every other product in the world does not have a futures market that sets a base price based on unlimited paper promises, ashland would determine his value and I would determine my value based on current retail prices. If we agreed to transact and set a price, it would be at or somewhere between those two valuations.
Without a futures market and a spot price, market price and its subsequent value would be determined by buyers and sellers in the marketplace along with potato chips, automobiles and health club memberships. Like anything else asking price would be based on cost plus seller markup. Valuation (what is it worth to me), by both a seller and a buyer would be based on current retail prices. Again, where they agree to transact would determine latest price. Items that were overvalued by the seller would sit on the store shelf until asking price was reduced or until the product suddenly saw increased demand. All those paper respirators that had been sitting on the shelf unsold suddenly were worth the previously "too high" price tag.
If I have a brand new, in the box, Iphone (or silver bar) and want to sell it, how do I price it? I look at what others are selling it for. My price will depend on how quickly I want to sell it. I would also have the option of auctioning it on ebay and let the bidders determine the price. I don't list auction style on ebay. It's my valuation or no sale.
Would be great if there were no paper promises determining base (basic) price of a precious metal asset. Of course, the downside of this would be the loss of suppliers/producers propping up the base price. It is what it is, let the prices fall (or rise) where the market says they should. It times of uncertainty and economic turmoil PM prices would definitely be much higher if there were no futures market. In times of unicorns and rainbows PM prices would likely be out of favor and much lower in retail cost.
Fact is futures markets were created to control prices. Initially a good protection for both mass producers and mass consumers, speculators have turned them into casinos where the house (JPM and associates) almost always wins.
BTW, nice grown up discussion underway. Kudos to all participants.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Values and prices are two distinct things.
All values in all markets are personal (i.e., private and usually unspoken) and subjective.
Bids, asks and historical transaction data are prices.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Is silver $25 as asked by dealers or $18 as bid by dealers? Or $15 as quoted by futures?
In the absence of a highly liquid market (futures) how is a basis price established?
In the absence of market (retail) how would one go about determining price?
Are consumers effectively running to dealers saying "i will pay you $25 for silver" or are dealers saying, "if you want my silver it will be $25"?
PS...i "liked" derrybs comments.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
negotiate is not subjective
I can decide value without trying to buy or sell it
It depends on the situation. In general, anything you own can have an "estimated" assessed value. Of course there are always multiple values for the same specific item. For insurance purposes, they will determine a replacement value. The actual replacement value is the same for a wholesale owner as a retail owner. Personal insurance may make different adjustments or allowances though than commercial insurance will.
If you were burglarized, your insurance will most likely look at the replacement value. If you do not have the right insurance, you may not have the VALUEation you expected. What you paid is not part of the valuation. Potentially, your insurance may argue that are only obligated to make you whole. They could ask for receipts and decide to cut a check for what you paid if replacing with physical costs more, or visa-versa.
At the end of the day: if you are liquidating your bullion then the value is whatever you agree to sell it for. If your heirs are liquidating, they will most likely agree to a different value. If a burglar is fencing your goods, they have a much lower valuation. I think your insurance tries to find the lowest possible valuation.