Black streaks on silver coins that have been in same collection since 1930s and earlier.

JesseKraft

In a recent post by @NSP on his awesome 1828 B-2 quarter, I posted a link to the ANS Bust Quarter Collection, and the keen eye of @scubafuel noticed black streaks that look like ink on several of them. I too have previously noticed this on several silver coins throughout the ANS collection, all of which have been there since the 1930s and before. I am fairly certain that it's not ink, but a bad chemical reaction of some sort. All of the coins are raw and in individual cardboard boxes. It's only on some of the silver coins added to the collection before the 1930s and on none since 1940 (fortunately, for the 1940s is when the US collection really began to grow).

I do know that in 1941 (and before?) the ANS purchased boxes from famed collector T. James Clarke, who owned/operated the T. James Clarke Box and Label Works, Inc., which he opened in 1916. Without further research, I can't positively state whether the 1941 purchase of boxes was the first instance, or part of an ongoing arrangement. 1941/42 correspondence between Sydney P. Noe and Clarke, however, has an air of first-time purchase, though doesn't explicitly state as such. Therefore, not 100% sure if Clarke's boxes were the culprit, or the savior of these coins from an earlier method of storage.

What might have caused this? What is reacting with what? It's not pretty.

Some examples:

1836 Capped Bust Quarter
American Numismatic Society, 1935.103.3

1915 Barber Dime
American Numismatic Society, 1915.226.5

1900 Lafayette Dollar
American Numismatic Society, 1925.104.4

For comparison with gold: 1796 $10 gold
American Numismatic Society, 1908.93.232

ms70

I'm surprised nobody has tried to remove the "stains". Maybe because it's like a fingerprint to the provenance?

crazyhounddog

The Barber dime looks more like carbon spots to me. Not sure about the streaks on the others but I’ll bet ya they cannot be removed. They also resemble carbon spot/streaks. The coins also look severely dipped. Dead lifeless coins.

PerryHall

Where's Ricko when you need him?

JesseKraft

@ms70 and @crazyhounddog . Definitely look dipped. Perhaps in an attempt to get rid of the blackness? The pattern of the streaks on the Lafayette dollar looks like it responded to something that was applied and wiped away.

ricko

Not sure I can help much... The first and third coin appear to have had a reaction to something they were laying on or stored in... the second coin does not have the streaks..so very hard to say what that is...magnification, such as under a microscope, may tell more...such a shame. Cheers, RickO

PerryHall

Would the PCGS conservation make sense for these coins? Those black streaks/marks are pretty bad.

JesseKraft

@ricko said:
...such a shame.

Agreed. When I was a graduate student, I was an assistant (GA) for 2 years at the Winterthur Museum, Library & Gardens, which has one of the best and cutting-edge conservation labs in the States (separate labs for textiles, wood, paintings, photography, and objects [objects=mostly things made of metal]). Would it be worth it to reach out to them?

I'm afraid, however, that they wouldn't treat them with the same mindset as a numismatist. What few coins they had in their study collection (an 1893 Columbian half, a common Morgan dollar, and a worn 1832 bust half dollar come to mind) were pretty badly cleaned. [Note: Winterthur does have a small but decent collection of early colonial silver that was not badly cleaned]

@PerryHall , ah yes, or PCGS conservation!! Thoughts on that?

291fifth

The coins may have once been kept in a folder-type coin album that permitted the coin to come into direct contact with the glue that held the pieces of the folder together. The very early Whitman folders were made like this. Other brands may have had the same type of construction.

291fifth

You might also check out the construction of the 1930's era coin boards. Some brands of those may have also allowed the coins to come into direct contact with the glue that held the pieces together.

jmlanzaf

@291fifth said:
The coins may have once been kept in a folder-type coin album that permitted the coin to come into direct contact with the glue that held the pieces of the folder together. The very early Whitman folders were made like this. Other brands may have had the same type of construction.

This is interesting. I have seen streaks like that before. Is this a known source or just speculation?

291fifth

@jmlanzaf said:

@291fifth said:
The coins may have once been kept in a folder-type coin album that permitted the coin to come into direct contact with the glue that held the pieces of the folder together. The very early Whitman folders were made like this. Other brands may have had the same type of construction.

This is interesting. I have seen streaks like that before. Is this a known source or just speculation?

I recall having seen cents from a very early Whitman folder that had the glue pattern visible on the reverse of each coin.

shorecoll

I would definitely reach out to the PCGS or NGC conservation staff directly, I'm sure they'd be willing to discuss with ANS.

PerryHall

As dark as those streaks appear I doubt dipping them in E-Z-Est or Tarnx will remove those marks. The professional coin conservation services may have some proprietary techniques that may work.

CaptHenway

They look like they may have been sloppily lacquered with the toning occurring where air got through the gaps in the lacquer. When you tilt them under a light source are the bright areas shiny?

Take the least valuable one and soak it in acetone for a few days, rinse it under hot tap water, pat dry and look at it again. If the shine has gone away, then decide if you wish to try dipping it.

Hydrant

@PerryHall said:
Where's Ricko when you need him?

Where's Insider2......

PerryHall

@Hydrant said:

@PerryHall said:
Where's Ricko when you need him?

Where's Insider2......

Unfortunately, he was banned.

JesseKraft

@CaptHenway said:
They look like they may have been sloppily lacquered with the toning occurring where air got through the gaps in the lacquer. When you tilt them under a light source are the bright areas shiny?

I'll check this out when I'm back in the office.

Might sound a weird question, but could this be the long-term effects of silver potassium cyanide or (less-likely) silver nitrate (nitric acid) on silver? The former darkens on exposure to light, and the latter turns gray-to-black on exposure to organic material. On the reverse of the Capped Bust quarter, I see what could be remnants of a fingerprint (i.e. organic material). While this may seem nuts, let's not forget what happened to J. Sanford Saltus!

(p.s. sorry for the late reply. I just found this in my "drafts." Apparently I failed to hit Post Comment. )

Coinosaurus

I looked at the ANS Liberty Seated coins about 10-15 years ago and saw the exact same thing. I hope Jesse can figure this out.

Boosibri

Interesting thread!

291fifth

The pattern on the obverse and reverse of the Layfayette Dollar certainly looks like brush marks. Is there any evidence of a coating such as lacquer remaining on the coin? It is possible that a lacquer coating (or something else in use in the early 20th century) may have been applied, then removed, but not fully removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

TwoSides2aCoin

It could likely be caused by storage and contact. I've seen some silver coins in Kraft envelopes (tan) which have gotten similar spots and streaks. And these could be contaminates (like prints or oils) prior to being put in long term storage.

messydesk

@shorecoll said:
I would definitely reach out to the PCGS or NGC conservation staff directly, I'm sure they'd be willing to discuss with ANS.

This.

ChrisH821

Why does the dime appear to have an O mint mark?

JesseKraft

@ChrisH821 said:
Why does the dime appear to have an O mint mark?

I saw that too. Probably coincidental, and related to the blackness of the coin. (or a ghost mintmark )

JesseKraft

@Coinosaurus said:
I looked at the ANS Liberty Seated coins about 10-15 years ago and saw the exact same thing. I hope Jesse can figure this out.

I hope so too. Once things are back to normal I am going to investigate further. It was disheartening to see.