This is why you don't place a skyhigh bid - somebody else might do the same thing

SoFlo

1971-S Ike Proof Silver Dollar w/ Mel Wacks "1984 Harry S. Truman" Counterstamp See original listing
1971-S-Ike-Proof-Silver-Dollar-w-Mel-Wacks-034-1984-Harry-S-Truman-034-Counterstamp
Item Sold
Condition:--
Ended:Mar 22, 2020 , 8:43PM
Winning bid:US $371.00
[ 12 bids ]
Shipping:$4.00 Standard Shipping
Item location:Little Rock, Arkansas, United States
Seller:
csscoinman (4162 ) | Seller's other items

JBN

The Consignor's Dream.

Zoins

Here's the bid history. Definitely looks like 2 snipers.

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/303513149924?

50cCOMMEMGUY

This is particularly valuable because????
The counterstamp? I’m confused. 🤷‍♂️

cmerlo1

I sold one of those years ago for around $20.00 if I remember correctly. WTG seller!

Zoins

@cmerlo1 said:
I sold one of those years ago for around $20.00 if I remember correctly. WTG seller!

Wow. Just $20 is amazing. PCGS slabs these now so watch for the prices to go up.

ricko

That was a snipe bid and likely in the last twenty seconds or so....Dude was perched and ready to pounce. Cheers, RickO

Texast

I can remember the days of Dutch Auctions on eBay when someone would want all of the items and would put a large bid in not understanding what they were doing. I have to believe that is one of the reasons the stopped doing it.

CaptHenway

All you need is two fools. Back when I was seriously collecting Honduras coinage a super rare 25 Centavo showed up on eBay mislabeled as a different date. I talked with somebody who knew the market and he said it should go for about $1500 so I put in a nuclear bit of $4,000.......and did not get it. I will bet that the other bidder was a bit surprised.

astrorat

As trite as it sounds ... don't bid what you're not willing to spend.

CaptHenway

I am reading a book about the Gutenberg Bible and collectors of it. Back in the 1830's it started to get recognized as being the first book printed from movable type, just as book collecting became a popular form of one-upsmanship among the British elite. A copy sold for 80 Pounds, which was considered to be quite a bit, and then another copy for 126 Pounds, and then two highly competitive cousins who would not let the other beat him bid a copy up to 2,260 Pounds, and the Gutenberg Bible was enshrined as the most desirable book of all time!

seanq

@CaptHenway said:

I am reading a book about the Gutenberg Bible and collectors of it. Back in the 1830's it started to get recognized as being the first book printed from movable type, just as book collecting became a popular form of one-upsmanship among the British elite. A copy sold for 80 Pounds, which was considered to be quite a bit, and then another copy for 126 Pounds, and then two highly competitive cousins who would not let the other beat him bid a copy up to 2,260 Pounds, and the Gutenberg Bible was enshrined as the most desirable book of all time!

This goes back probably 20 years, but the owner of the company where I worked was a collector of early American furniture and folk art. After a meeting in NYC, I accompanied him to Christies for a lot viewing, where they had a series of weathervanes up for auction. Most sold in the mid five figures, but one large Indian sculpture sparked a bidding war and ended up hammering for nearly $5,000,000.

Edit: found a link to the auction results, it was $5.84 million on a $100,000 - $150,000 estimate.

Sean Reynolds

davewesen

if you have a nuclear bid, isn't it because you are willing to pay that $$ for item?

MasonG

@davewesen said:
if you have a nuclear bid, isn't it because you are willing to pay that $$ for item?

No, that's called bidding your max. A nuclear bid is an outrageously high bid made with the expectation that you will not encounter a competing nuclear bidder on that item.

davewesen

why would you ever put a snipe bid in higher than you are willing to pay? do some people get a thrill not knowing what the item is going to cost them?

MasonG

@davewesen said:
why would you ever put a snipe bid in higher than you are willing to pay? do some people get a thrill not knowing what the item is going to cost them?

Suppose you really want the item but it's infrequently seen so a value is not easy to come by. You think it'll probably sell for somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000 and you're okay with an amount at the upper end of that range. So, in order to be sure you don't lose out by a bid increment or two to a sniper, you bid $20,000. Of course, you expect to win with that bid but not pay anywhere near that much, since nobody sane is going to be bidding more than $2,500 or so, right? Except the other guy who's using the same logic as you did when making the bid.

I haven't spent time on eBay's message boards for years, but this subject came up there regularly. Usually what happens is that the buyer backs out because his cat made the bid while he was in the bathroom.

Zoins

The thing about nuclear coin bids is that only one side is destroyed, it's not "mutual"

IkesT

This reminds me of an eBay buyer who kept winning all of the auctions I had been bidding on from one particular seller. He was not sniping, but making early nuclear bids. That is a pretty foolish strategy, generally speaking, but the annoying thing was, it was actually working - his maximum was so high that no reasonable person could outbid him. Consequently, he was winning all of the interesting varieties.

By employing some clever strategy and making exploratory bids, I was able to trigger and reveal his maximum bid. The crazy thing was, his maximum bid for a raw coin in rough condition was 2 to 4 times the value of a better grade slabbed coin of the same variety. Not smart...

ShadyDave

I was actually following that auction and had no clue why it ended at like 10x more than what I thought it should have gone for.

JBK

Not worth $371 in any universe, but the prices for Mel's creations have been creeping up.

Bochiman

I don't mind 2 nuclear bids, even if I am one, unless the other one is a shill bid.......

golden

Back in 1977 I put in what I thought was a nuclear bid on a National Bank Note. I was the third underbidder.

Aotearoa

@MasonG said:

@davewesen said:
why would you ever put a snipe bid in higher than you are willing to pay? do some people get a thrill not knowing what the item is going to cost them?

Suppose you really want the item but it's infrequently seen so a value is not easy to come by. You think it'll probably sell for somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000 and you're okay with an amount at the upper end of that range. So, in order to be sure you don't lose out by a bid increment or two to a sniper, you bid $20,000. Of course, you expect to win with that bid but not pay anywhere near that much, since nobody sane is going to be bidding more than $2,500 or so, right? Except the other guy who's using the same logic as you did when making the bid.

I haven't spent time on eBay's message boards for years, but this subject came up there regularly. Usually what happens is that the buyer backs out because his cat made the bid while he was in the bathroom.

There is no "logic" to that approach.

CaptHenway

@golden said:
Back in 1977 I put in what I thought was a nuclear bid on a National Bank Note. I was the third underbidder.

Did you ever find another?

MasonG

@Aotearoa said:
There is no "logic" to that approach.

I disagree.

golden

@CaptHenway said:

@golden said:
Back in 1977 I put in what I thought was a nuclear bid on a National Bank Note. I was the third underbidder.

Did you ever find another?

No. It is a unique note. It has since sold for many multiples of the 1977 price.

savitale

It's a marketplace. Every once in a while two people just have to have that coin. On that particular day in that particular venue it was worth $371. Lucky day for the seller.

roadrunner

There was no sniping here. The under bidder put in their best and last bid with 44 seconds to go. Plenty of time for anyone else to respond. The winning bidder had entered their top bid with 60 seconds to go. Both of these bidders had 766/1452 feedbacks. Thats a lot! So we can assume they were experienced collectors/dealers. But it's also somewhat possible either was a shill for the seller. But more than likely 2 people that just had to have it today.

Zoins

@golden said:

@CaptHenway said:

@golden said:
Back in 1977 I put in what I thought was a nuclear bid on a National Bank Note. I was the third underbidder.

Did you ever find another?

No. It is a unique note. It has since sold for many multiples of the 1977 price.

If there's a time to go nuclear, it's for a unique item.

At least you can keep it so no one else can get it for cheaper

jmlanzaf

@Zoins said:

@golden said:

@CaptHenway said:

@golden said:
Back in 1977 I put in what I thought was a nuclear bid on a National Bank Note. I was the third underbidder.

Did you ever find another?

No. It is a unique note. It has since sold for many multiples of the 1977 price.

If there's a time to go nuclear, it's for a unique item.

At least you can keep it so no one else can get it for cheaper

Until the market collapses. A lot of banknotes are quite scarce or rare, yet nationals have dropped significantly in the last 2 or 3 years...yes, even for unique items.

Very often with nationals, there are only 1 or 2 or 3 known. But there are often only a handful of people collecting that bank or that state or that city.

Zoins

@jmlanzaf said:

@Zoins said:

@golden said:

@CaptHenway said:

@golden said:
Back in 1977 I put in what I thought was a nuclear bid on a National Bank Note. I was the third underbidder.

Did you ever find another?

No. It is a unique note. It has since sold for many multiples of the 1977 price.

If there's a time to go nuclear, it's for a unique item.

At least you can keep it so no one else can get it for cheaper

Until the market collapses. A lot of banknotes are quite scarce or rare, yet nationals have dropped significantly in the last 2 or 3 years...yes, even for unique items.

Very often with nationals, there are only 1 or 2 or 3 known. But there are often only a handful of people collecting that bank or that state or that city.

If you hold on to it, people still can't get a unique item cheaper. When there's only one, it comes down to how strong of a hand you have.

Of course, if you have to sell in a down market then then it might go for less.

winesteven

@Zoins said:

If you hold on to it, people still can't get a unique item cheaper. When there's only one, it comes down to how strong of a hand you have.

Of course, if you have to sell in a down market then then it might go for less.

With all due respect, you’re only looking at one side of the equation. You’re only looking at supply. Ten minutes ago, I just drew a doodle on a sheet of paper, and signed my name to it. There is only one of these on the entire planet. Yet I suspect there’s little or no DEMAND for this (except perhaps from my mom). Value is determined by a COMBINATION of “Supply and Demand”.

DNADave

In ref to the OP. These don’t come up too often. If you want one for your collection it’s not unreasonable to bid high if you can afford it.
I’ve placed what I consider almost nuclear bids on several of Mel Wacks bicentalers. Been shot down on all of them.
OTOH if I put my Truman on eBay right now. I bet it would sell for about 50-60.

jmlanzaf

@winesteven said:

@Zoins said:

If you hold on to it, people still can't get a unique item cheaper. When there's only one, it comes down to how strong of a hand you have.

Of course, if you have to sell in a down market then then it might go for less.

With all due respect, you’re only looking at one side of the equation. You’re only looking at supply. Ten minutes ago, I just drew a doodle on a sheet of paper, and signed my name to it. There is only one of these on the entire planet. Yet I suspect there’s little or no DEMAND for this (except perhaps from my mom). Value is determined by a COMBINATION of “Supply and Demand”.

This is very true. It is the problem with thin markets.

If there are only 6 collectors of a particular National Bank, when the unique note comes up for auction they will all bid on it. Of course, the higher the price goes, the fewer bidders remaining. It only takes 2 motivated bidders to push up the price. So let's say it sells for $25,000. But let's also say that there were only two bidders above $15,000.

When the high bidder buys it, there are now 5 people who still want the note, but there is only one bidder left willing to go above $15,000. If you put the note up for auction, it will only sell for $15,000.

Even if you try a private treaty deal, if the underbidder is smart, he knows there is no one willing to pay more than $15,000 for the note.

It happened to a friend of mine with an Una the Lion gold coin from the UK. He wanted one. One hadn't hit a major auction in about a decade. In 1997 or 1998, one hit the market. It was kind of ugly, actually, an MS60, but he ended up winning it for $28,000. 2 years later, another one went up for auction which was actually nicer. It only sold for $20,000

I have an Irish bank token of which only 5 are known and mine is the highest certified example. I bought it a couple months ago in a Stack's auction for $160. ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY DOLLARS! If it were a U.S. token that was top pop of 5 known, it would probably be $10,000.

Zoins

@winesteven said:

@Zoins said:

If you hold on to it, people still can't get a unique item cheaper. When there's only one, it comes down to how strong of a hand you have.

Of course, if you have to sell in a down market then then it might go for less.

With all due respect, you’re only looking at one side of the equation. You’re only looking at supply. Ten minutes ago, I just drew a doodle on a sheet of paper, and signed my name to it. There is only one of these on the entire planet. Yet I suspect there’s little or no DEMAND for this (except perhaps from my mom). Value is determined by a COMBINATION of “Supply and Demand”.

Current value is very different from whether one is available on the market. I wrote one won’t be available but people are taking issue with value. Those are two different things.

For example, I own a piece which is unique in private hands. Only two exist with one in a museum. Regardless of price, if I don’t sell, no other piece is available for private collectors. My statement is as simple as that. If the demand for the piece is zero people, my holding it doesn’t matter. If the demand is even one person, regardless of price, the piece is not available.

Of course, as a buyer, if it’s too expensive, it’s sometimes possible a unique item comes back for sale and you can get it cheaper. An example is that I picked up 2 unique pieces, one after I missed it 2 times and one where it sold for 30% less than the EPN auction but it’s also possible that pieces are simply not available for a generation or more. Figuring that out is the trick to bidding high on unique items.

winesteven

When I put my signed "doodle' on the market, it won't be tricky figuring out whether to bid high or not, even though it's one of a kind/unique, and will probably never ever be on the market again. As you can see, you MUST figure demand into the equation.

Zoins

@winesteven said:
When I put my signed "doodle' on the market, it won't be tricky figuring out whether to bid high or not, even though it's one of a kind/unique, and will probably never ever be on the market again. As you can see, you MUST figure demand into the equation.

I think one must factor in demand but it’s mostly for how much you value it at the time and that is also a function of how much money you have.

If the money is low enough to not matter, it doesn’t matter what the downstream demand is. I’m not sure why the concept for someone who doesn’t care about selling or secondary market value is so strange.

Of course, if you want to sell, it matters, but for some, there’s no need to ever sell.

winesteven

So you're saying if D.L. Hansen likes my doodle, since $10K may not be much to him, i might get money for a real nice vacation? I think we finally agree.

Stay safe!

NorCalJack

Well I snipped a coin on Great Collections and placed a bid of $230.00. Or at least that is what I thought I bid. Apparently I forgot to place a decimal point and entered $23,000. In my haste I confirmed the bid to try and place my bid at the last second. After I confirmed the bid I realized my error and was freeking out and hoping someone else did not put in a nuclear bid. I ended up winning the coin (Duh) for $310.00. More than I wanted to pay, but was glad nobody placed a super high bid.

BillJones

Many years ago I bid on a Linocln political token that was on Ebay. I made a typo and added and extra number. Thank goodness no one pushed up on that one! If they had, it would have set a price record for the variety is slightly circulated condition that would still be standing today!

No Headlights

@BillJones said:
Many years ago I bid on a Linocln political token that was on Ebay. I made a typo and added and extra number. Thank goodness no one pushed up on that one! If they had, it would have set a price record for the variety is slightly circulated condition that would still be standing today!

Better to be lucky than good is a very appropriate saying sometimes
Glad you didn’t set a record!

Coinosaurus

I've been on all sides of this - buyer, seller, underbidder. Thinly traded items have a peculiar market.

Staircoins

Sometimes the only thing rarer than the item itself is the buyer for it.