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What do you think about a condition of this 40 francs [from 1811, graded MS 62 by PCGS]
Redfox
Posts: 33 ✭✭
I've been thinking about buying the aforementioned piece. But due to pretty sewere adjustment marks I have some doubts.
So, I'd like to ask you a few questions.
1.Do you think that the adjustment marks would be problematic, i.e. when selling it at some point in the future?
2.What is the impact of the adjustments on price of the coin (asking, so that I know if I overpay, or not).
3. Lastly, what is your take on the asigned grade (taking into consideration the marks, and a pretty weak strike in the center of the obverse.)?
Thanks,
Redfox
0
Comments
1 - yes
2- for me, I would not buy it as it is distracting, yet if it does not bother you, try 30-50% discount
3 - to me technical grade here does not matter give 1+2
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
I don't like it. I have a nicer piece dated 1811 or 1812 (Paris) lying around here in an older NGC slab.
Whenever the seller sells that piece in the photo, he or she will be one of the happiest people on this planet.
Besides the adjustment marks, there is a rim ding (small but noticeable) between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock on the reverse.
The coin may nearly be "as made" in a technical sense, but it ugly.
If you must buy it, pay very little over melt.
The color and luster are nice. And the adjustment marks on the reverse don't bother me much. But those on the obverse are distracting.
Technical grade may be accurate. But a problem coin will always be a problem coin. Even at a discount.
--Severian the Lame
I would pass. Those marks are very distracting to me.
8 Reales Madness Collection
I agree with the other posts. I would not be happy with this coin due to the adjustment marks, particularly in the obverse.
When you're considering a coin purchase and think to yourself, "this is nice, but......" , you can almost guarantee that somebody else will be thinking the same thing when it comes time to sell
I dislike adjustment marks and would not buy that coin if offered.
I would suggest passing. Never buy a coin you have to apologize for.
1- Yes.
2- There will be an impact, don't know exactly what it would be.
3- There are only two UNC grades lower and one of them is little used. If it was in different flavored plastic, I can only imagine the hilarity that would ensue.
Imagine how hard selling this coin to someone else would be
Latin American Collection
Find a better coin, adjustment marks are distracting and hard to sell unless you discount it.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I suspect this is one of the more common dates for the series. My point will be somewhat different than others referenced here. The problem with this hobby is that collectors today look back through a 21st century lens without a complete understanding in reality of the minting process... And Why adjustments were needed. Paris in 1811 and coins production in general was much different than what exists today. This thread seems to fall short in terms of acknowledging and setting expectations as to what is reasonable for adjustment marks in Europe prior to 1840
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Actually, people have used the word "technical" in this thread to acknowledge that adjustment marks were part of the minting process. Others have straight out used the words "adjustment marks". People are cognizant that they existed. Unknowledgeable people would likely be objecting to using the MS designation at all.
Nevertheless, ugly is still ugly. The gentleman who said "Never buy a coin you have to apologize for" said it best.
1811-A 40 francs is by far the most common 40 francs date & mintmark in the Nappy types. Almost 1.3 million pieces minted.
Sounds like you would buy this coin
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Hard pass
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Easy tigers... this is all about sharing perspectives.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
The question was what one thinks of the condition... Not whether one would buy it. Adjustment marks come with the territory.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The first question asked about whether or not it would be hard to sell, which would necessarily require somebody being willing to buy it.
I would pass. I’ve seen much better looking 40 francs from that date.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
To each his/own own. This is a beautiful coin. It is an excellent teaching specimen; however the number of people who would agree with me would be near ZERO. Therefore, I agree with all the posters - it is not the coin for you.
BTW, the folks who are throwing the words "technical graded" around are just blowing the smoke of conventional misinformation caused by the ANA. Not one post here has come close to the TRUE technical grade of this coin as it was applied by the person who devised that system in 1973 as a way to identify a coin sent in for authentication.
Anyone care to take a guess? Hint: Back then then there were two MS grades, Uncirculated and Choice Uncirculated. What would the actual "technical grade" for this coin be in the records to ID it along with a photo and weight? That grade would never change over time or market condition as long as the coin stayed in its present condition. Back then, the word Gradeflation and its effect did not exist!
I'm going to bet that no one get's it COMPLETELY correct. With that hint I hope to be proven mistaken.
I find this an interesting coin, I am about the worst person walking around to grade gold, I really stink at it.
I might buy that simply for the adjustment marks.
I collect French copper and minor metals and find many coins of this period with heavy scratch marks and always considered them to be poor man's political statements.
If I collected French gold I would not hesitate to buy this coin. To me it is a great example of the state of the mint and overall goings ons of a country in extreme turmoil.
That piece is not for me, but it is not difficult to understand what happened:
This engraving was part of a recent U.S. Mint internet advertisement.
France was going to an aggressive war stance by 1811, but for any Frenchman not in the Army, times would have seemed pretty good. Napoleon ran a strong State with amazingly sound finances and France had no difficulty in moving on after his second ouster. Extreme turmoil is incorrect and has nothing to do with the adjustment marks on the coin.
ok Bill, no prob
I would still buy it if i collected the series. It talks to me
France and its numerous mints had a long history of making planchets a bit on the heavy side and using files to take the coins down to the correct weight. Any planchet that was made too light had to be remelted and re-made and that was an extra cost to the Mint. The people who worked filing the planchets acquired great skill in judging what to do.
Apparently the men at the minting press were indifferent to which side the adjustment marks were on.
Possibly some royal coins were intentionally defaced during the first part of the 1790s.
I've been looking around for my NGC graded example of this coin, but it has eluded me so far.