Home Precious Metals

Rhodium is trading @ ATH of $10,000 per Ounce again... Buy, Sell, or Hold?


Rhodium Bid is @ $10,000 as I speak tied for All Time High some 12 years ago (coincidentally with a 12% premium on ask)

Following the lead of a similar thread..

If you own some of this precious metal, are you thinking about Selling? Do you feel this metal still has room to grow and are looking to Buy? Are you Holding your position, or lack thereof?

Let's talk about

It's all about what the people want...

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Comments

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020 12:45PM

    I wish I had some, I'd SELL :D

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:
    I wish I had some, I'd SELL :D

    If I had some, most likely would have sold it by now. B)

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 39,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does any country or refiner make rhodium coins, small bars/rounds, or is it strictly a paper investment?

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Does any country or refiner make rhodium coins, small bars/rounds, or is it strictly a paper investment?

    Baird & Co. make bars in various sizes, 1/10th, 1/2, 1oz and 5 maybe bigger. Pamp Suisse has a fortuna bar and there are others.

    Tuvalu has the "first legal tender" Rhodium coin the 2018 dragon - mintage of 1000

    The Cohen mint did coins and bars for a short time in 08'/09' but went under...

    It's all about what the people want...

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    Metallium Inc. does an element series and you can get a Rhodium coin in 1/10th oz or their 'standard thickness' which weights 5.3g

    It's all about what the people want...

  • SweetpieSweetpie Posts: 406 ✭✭✭

    @LukeMarshall said:
    Metallium Inc. does an element series and you can get a Rhodium coin in 1/10th oz or their 'standard thickness' which weights 5.3g

    Yike! I don't think I would get near the Uranium coin of this serie.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 39,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think these Rhodium coins are very liquid. I can just imagine trying to sell a 1 oz Rhodium coin at the local coin shop. I'll stick with gold and silver.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if I load up on rhodium now does it need to go up another 10,000 for me to break even? :D

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 25,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nah. the spread would just double.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭

    You got to know when to fold and when to hold....from a Kenny Rogers song (perhaps not in verbatim).

    In terms of whether it is the right time to sell them, it depends on how much you bought them for. If you hung on to them for 5 years or more, it is not wrong to sell them, but just make sure to reinvest some of it in something else that is up and coming.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974
  • rickoricko Posts: 79,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I may be mistaken (often a problem I have encountered), but Rhodium, wasn't this at one time a plating for junk jewelry? Seems I remember that many years ago. What application does it now have that is driving the value so high?? Cheers, RickO

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 3,448 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I may be mistaken (often a problem I have encountered), but Rhodium, wasn't this at one time a plating for junk jewelry? Seems I remember that many years ago. What application does it now have that is driving the value so high?? Cheers, RickO

    Yes it used to plate silver jewelry to stop it from tarnishing

    Young Numismatist/collector
    Visit my eBay store kliao-69
    32 Positive BST transactions with 22 members and counting!

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sweetpie said:

    @LukeMarshall said:
    Metallium Inc. does an element series and you can get a Rhodium coin in 1/10th oz or their 'standard thickness' which weights 5.3g

    Yike! I don't think I would get near the Uranium coin of this serie.

    Why not? I have a piece of Uranium that weighs 10 oz.

    thefinn
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why does everyone wait for the price of something to balloon up before buying? Oh ya, I forgot - Buy High, Sell Low.

    thefinn
  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I may be mistaken (often a problem I have encountered), but Rhodium, wasn't this at one time a plating for junk jewelry? Seems I remember that many years ago. What application does it now have that is driving the value so high?? Cheers, RickO

    This is the plating for 'white gold' as well. I recall a jeweler saying a white gold ring will start to turn yellow and need to be re-rhodium dipped... Probably an electroplate term

    It's all about what the people want...

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Hello all! This is my first post. I did buy some rhodium bars in the 2016-2017 timeframe, despite a relatively large spread. 80% or more of the stuff ends up in catalytic converters. Neither Pt or Pd can replace it for removing nitrogen oxides in exhauast. Chinese demand major reason why price is skyrocketing. That said, whether to buy, sell, or hold is anyone's guess. I have been selling a little at $2k, $3k, $5k, $7k, and $9k

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobM said:
    Hello all! This is my first post. I did buy some rhodium bars in the 2016-2017 timeframe, despite a relatively large spread. 80% or more of the stuff ends up in catalytic converters. Neither Pt or Pd can replace it for removing nitrogen oxides in exhauast. Chinese demand major reason why price is skyrocketing. That said, whether to buy, sell, or hold is anyone's guess. I have been selling a little at $2k, $3k, $5k, $7k, and $9k

    Welcome to the forums. :)

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Car exhaust has been very, very good to some PM collectors and welcome!

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    Indeed,

    @RobM Thanks for the response and welcome to the forum.

    Nice job picking some Rhodium up before the run up. Sounds to me like you are slowly profit taking which is never a bad thing.... Congratulations!

    It's all about what the people want...

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Thanks for the warm welcome. PMs (all the ones in bullion form, except Pt so far) have been a success for me. I've had the reverse luck with stocks.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow...now at $11,100

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Kitco lists $11,000 for yesterday 02/20/20
    Infomine.com suggests $12,700 for today (typically, quite a bit higher than Kitco spot listing)
    So instead of a true market, I am assuming these prices are coming from individual refiners?

    If you have a 1 oz Baird bar and you want to sell it back, we aren't quite (~$9,900) to $10K yet. Beyond that psychological level I think a quite a few more bars will be heading back to the refiner. That might cause a brief retreat in Rh prices, but the more I think about it, prices will still likely go up, up, up.

    Question: If Rh could eventually go as high as $20-30K in the next year or two, would you buy bullion or sponge now? I don't think I would, but the reason I ask is that if supply is in such deficit, what would prices back? Ultimately, it would be the addition to the price of new cars. No one seems to want to specify how much rhodium is a catalytic converter - estimates are usually 3-7 grams of total catalyst in most ICE vehicles. I am going to guess that there is actually less than half a gram of Rh on average so it is still less than $200/vehicle. So if there were $500 of Rh in a vehicle, would it still be affordable? Pt (in surplus) can ultimately replace Pd (in deficit) in converters but are there any incentive for miners to bring more Rh to market?

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Ouch. Rhodium cut in half in a week. I didn't want to be greedy and sold (or traded for Au or Pt) 70% of what i had at various points between $2K-$10K, basis at just under $1.1K. Looks like world-recession is putting a damper on just about everything but cash.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In a full scale pandemic rhodium is not what i want to be sitting on

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    Currently @ kitco

    Bid - $6000
    Ask - $8000

    It's all about what the people want...

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2020 1:13PM

    What has been the buy/sell spread on the rhodium that you've owned?

    It seems to me that it's usually well over 20%. What has been your experience? And how easy was it to liquidate?

    And who did you buy from & sell to?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    What has been the buy/sell spread on the rhodium that you've owned?

    It seems to me that it's usually well over 20%. What has been your experience? And how easy was it to liquidate?

    And who did you buy from & sell to?

    At ~$1K the spread between buy and sell at the same dealer circa 2016 for a 1oz bar was around $200. I think that the ~20% spread back then was a deterrent to buying for many potential investors. I bought from only 2 places.... California Numismatics and Golden Eagle. As the Rh price went up the spread also went up - to around $1K. Since there is no futures market in Rh, there is no easy way for an individual investor to accurately value his/her bullion. At the very top I was seeing Kitco listing spot prices of $11.5k and some site named Infomine as high as $13.8k. I sold the most recent ounce to Golden Eagle for $10.0k at very close to the highs. At the time their sell price was right around $11.2k iirc. It is easy since they frequently will publish their buy price. I was satisfied with their offer because that is as high as eBay selling prices at the peak, and cost me zero commission or s&h costs (just gas and toll to drive to the store).

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobM said:

    @jmski52 said:
    What has been the buy/sell spread on the rhodium that you've owned?

    It seems to me that it's usually well over 20%. What has been your experience? And how easy was it to liquidate?

    And who did you buy from & sell to?

    At ~$1K the spread between buy and sell at the same dealer circa 2016 for a 1oz bar was around $200. I think that the ~20% spread back then was a deterrent to buying for many potential investors. I bought from only 2 places.... California Numismatics and Golden Eagle. As the Rh price went up the spread also went up - to around $1K. Since there is no futures market in Rh, there is no easy way for an individual investor to accurately value his/her bullion. At the very top I was seeing Kitco listing spot prices of $11.5k and some site named Infomine as high as $13.8k. I sold the most recent ounce to Golden Eagle for $10.0k at very close to the highs. At the time their sell price was right around $11.2k iirc. It is easy since they frequently will publish their buy price. I was satisfied with their offer because that is as high as eBay selling prices at the peak, and cost me zero commission or s&h costs (just gas and toll to drive to the store).

    Sounds to me like a seller offloading all the risk to captive buyers such a deal! :#

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2020 4:25AM

    Not everyone can fight a 20+% spread with wildly fluctuating premiums and win big. Nice call, RobM.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Basically luck on my part. I knew use in catalysts was increasing but i didn't know the NOx reduction properties that Rh had over Pt, Pd. But the near term at least the auto industry is destroyed along with the value of Pt group metals. I will hold what i have left, but would not consider buying again until sub $2k. This stuff is purely speculative unless you need it in your day to day operations. I'm going to buy me some osmium next (just kidding).

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    every bar of rhodium you buy today comes with a free case of stockholm syndrome!!!

    just pay separate postage and handling

  • OPAOPA Posts: 16,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2020 9:16AM

    FYI....things sure have changed since the OP's post. Latest info:

    Rhodium..... $4,500.00***** -$1,500.00

    Those that sold are the winners.

    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 17,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $3500 now! :#

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    $3500 bid - $6000 ask. Down 42% today alone

    Hmmm, with the trouble people are having aquiring the other PMs close to spot price, I wonder what one would have to pay to buy rhodium today?

    $3500 ? $6000? More? Is it even available? Current premium to ask is 71%

    It's all about what the people want...

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    I see baird 1/10 oz listed for $772 at GEC. I don't think any Rh bars have sold on eBay since 3/8, before the price started falling sharply. Cheapest listed price on eBay is a pamp 1oz for $8k. Maybe i should list a bar at $7k to see if there any buyers at that level.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One of my customers has 7 oz., just about 2 weeks ago, he mentioned about flying out to Washington state to sell them at 11k per oz, but for whatever reason didn't make it, he came by yesterday kicking himself for not making the trip!!!

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    Wow.
    Rhodium down another $1000
    Bid $2500 Ask $5000
    100% premium on the spread

    It's all about what the people want...

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    I bet new light vehicle sales in the US fall to ~10M over the next 12 months.

  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,512 ✭✭✭✭

    Rhodium: from $11500 to $2500 in only eight days!
    If gold had fallen that fast and that far it would be trading around $350 now. :o

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Kitco Rh spot at $2K, 3/23 1oz baird bar sold for $7600 on eBay!

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 25,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i don't see 1oz rhodium bar/coin at any place with a name

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    That's because I have most of them.

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    i don't see 1oz rhodium bar/coin at any place with a name

    @RobM said:
    Kitco Rh spot at $2K, 3/23 1oz baird bar sold for $7600 on eBay!

    https://goldsilver.be/en/platinum-pd-rhodium/1894-1-oz-rhodium-dragon-tuvalu-100.html

    This was available yesterday, but is sold out now... Tuvalu 1oz Rhodium Dragon, sold for $8200

    It's all about what the people want...

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    That is promising... $7.6k and $8.2 as recent selling points absent any other price evidence.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's because I have most of them.

    lol. You must have an iron constitution or a good understanding of the market.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 20,737 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Or both.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Or neither. I was just kidding. I don't have very much, but @$10k it didn't take a lot to make one feel a little richer. But as a small investor, it felt a little better knowing roughly what you could expect to retrieve when selling the stuff. With all this "pent up" demand, $20k by next year, lol.

  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    And... Right back to $10K. Chinese ICE car sales increasing, EVs not so much. Tax incentives, stimulus, mfr rebates. Cheap oil prices for now. Would have been risky to acquire any Rh at the extreme spreads from earlier this year. I can't imagine buying at this price, though it would seem infinitely less risky than buying a bitcoin. Though I think $15K Rh is likely by end of year,

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 25,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    but can you sell it to someone?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • RobMRobM Posts: 115 ✭✭

    Yes, easily. Usually right back to the dealer from where it was purchased. There are a few that routinely buy/sell Rh bars/coins. It helps to live not too far from such an establishment. These coin dealers are typically larger and well capitalized and have relationships with a Rh refiner. Could also easily sell on eBay (but get hammered with fees) or directly negotiate with refiner, in the same way you might with gold. I know that at the present moment I could get $10K an oz at a store about 40 min drive away. If they've published a buy price for an item on their website, that's the price they will pay you. I prefer not haggle. That said, the spread between their buy/sell price is currently 13%, so they are profiting nicely.

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