FUN Pickup

cardinal

While attending the FUN Show and displaying the Libertas Set above, another attendee came up to me with an interesting piece, wondering if I had any information about it. I had seen that same piece some time ago in a foreign auction, basically listed with almost no description except a couple photos:

(edited for better photograph)

Obviously, it was related to Benjamin Franklin's Libertas Americana medal, but not like any other item I had seen. Nonetheless, I was able to purchase the item and display it for the remainder of the show. The seller had been trying to research the piece, and was trying to identify the material it was made of. He had spoken with John Dannreuther (likely the most knowledge person in the industry), and JD thought the item was made of gutta percha. Gutta percha is derived from trees similar to rubber trees, with high resin contents. It softens at 160 degrees, enough so that it can be extruded for commercial use. Heated a bit about boiling water, the material can be easily cut, and when it hardens it is strong enough to be used in making dies. Due to its properties, Gutta percha was used commercially for decades starting back as far the early 1800's.

So, what looks like a die for the obverse of the Libertas medal most likely would have been used to make medals - albeit not by the Paris Mint. Some time ago, I came upon an eBay auction with a white metal replica, and this one came with an unbroken provenance back into the early 1800's. Perhaps this die once belonged to that same person William Blanding, a coin collector who was not wealthy enough to buy coins, but had developed the skills to replicate them for his own collection.

Matching up the die with the replica, it is a total match, although the actual relief of the die doesn't come through in the photo. When I line up the replica with the die, it locks together.

(edited for better photograph)

Boosibri

So cool! Thanks for sharing!

Justacommeman

That is an amazing catch Martin!

Congrats!

mark

jonruns

Incredible!!! Fantastic NEWP!

PurpleEcho

That is fascinating! Thanks for sharing and educating.

Silverman2020

Very cool

Hemispherical

Thanks for showing and explaining the process @cardinal.

One big circle. Made, separated, and rejoined.

SeattleSlammer

cardinal newp?

That gets a fast click from me. 🤓

Very interesting and cool.

Coinosaurus

Nicely done. Congrats.

Zoins

@cardinal said:
He had spoken with John Dannreuther (likely the most knowledge person in the industry), and JD thought the item was made of gutta percha. Gutta percha is derived from trees similar to rubber trees, with high resin contents. It softens at 160 degrees, enough so that it can be extruded for commercial use. Heated a bit about boiling water, the material can be easily cut, and when it hardens it is strong enough to be used in making dies. Due to its properties, Gutta percha was used commercially for decades starting back as far the early 1800's.

So, what looks like a die for the obverse of the Libertas medal most likely would have been used to make medals - albeit not by the Paris Mint. Some time ago, I came upon an eBay auction with a white metal replica, and this one came with an unbroken provenance back into the early 1800's. Perhaps this die once belonged to that same person William Blanding, a coin collector who was not wealthy enough to buy coins, but had developed the skills to replicate them for his own collection.

What a great addition to the collection @cardinal ! Congrats on picking it up! Nice benefit of showcasing your collection

Love the background on gutta percha. Is there a way to test whether this really is made of gutta percha?

Also, nice reference to William Blanding. It would be great to associate this with him. Since Blanding made replicas, there should be an original be copied somewhere. I picked up the following in 2017 when his estate sold off many of his pieces that had been kept in their family for generations. It came with a signed provenance letter. Is your medal from the same sale?

ricko

Very interesting item and thanks for the information.... I did not realize gutta percha could be used as a die...Cheers, RickO

Lakesammman

Very cool! Enjoyed meeting you and chatting at the FUN show - very nice display.

messydesk

Wow! That's just... wow!

cardinal

@Zoins said:

@cardinal said:
He had spoken with John Dannreuther (likely the most knowledge person in the industry), and JD thought the item was made of gutta percha. Gutta percha is derived from trees similar to rubber trees, with high resin contents. It softens at 160 degrees, enough so that it can be extruded for commercial use. Heated a bit about boiling water, the material can be easily cut, and when it hardens it is strong enough to be used in making dies. Due to its properties, Gutta percha was used commercially for decades starting back as far the early 1800's.

So, what looks like a die for the obverse of the Libertas medal most likely would have been used to make medals - albeit not by the Paris Mint. Some time ago, I came upon an eBay auction with a white metal replica, and this one came with an unbroken provenance back into the early 1800's. Perhaps this die once belonged to that same person William Blanding, a coin collector who was not wealthy enough to buy coins, but had developed the skills to replicate them for his own collection.

What a great addition to the collection @cardinal ! Congrats on picking it up! Nice benefit of showcasing your collection

Love the background on gutta percha. Is there a way to test whether this really is made of gutta percha?

Also, nice reference to William Blanding. It would be great to associate this with him. Since Blanding made replicas, there should be an original be copied somewhere. I picked up the following in 2017 when his estate sold off many of his pieces that had been kept in their family for generations. It came with a signed provenance letter. Is your medal from the same sale?

Yes, the white metal Libertas medal came from that same sale! There were a number of white metal Libertas medals in the sale. I purchased the first one sold and believe it was the finest of the group. From my understanding, Blanding borrowed coins and medals, and then made copies for his own collection.

I suspect there is a way to confirm that the die is made of gutta percha, and I'll see if it actually turns out to be so.

CWT1863

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

cardinal

I did some additional research on Gutta Percha and how to distinguish it from other material.

Gutta percha is very similar to Vulcanite, with both being black. Over time the Vulcanite material ends up lighter and changes color; whereas the Gutta percha stays black for a very long time. Aside from that, another characteristic is the smell of the Gutta percha. When rubbed, Vulcanite gives off a foul acrid smell, while Gutta percha gives off a sweet smell. In this case, when I rubbed the subject piece, it did give off a light sweet aroma.

TommyType

@cardinal said:
I did some additional research on Gutta Percha and how to distinguish it from other material.

Gutta percha is very similar to Vulcanite, with both being black. Over time the Vulcanite material ends up lighter and changes color; whereas the Gutta percha stays black for a very long time. Aside from that, another characteristic is the smell of the Gutta percha. When rubbed, Vulcanite gives off a foul acrid smell, while Gutta percha gives off a sweet smell. In this case, when I rubbed the subject piece, it did give off a light sweet aroma.

Great. Now beyond training my eye for numismatics, I have to train my NOSE?

Interesting material.

And nice to bring the die and medal back together again!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

shorecoll

So rubbing it starts the whole cabinet friction discussion over again? Lol.

Kove

Very interesting info in this thread. Thanks for sharing!

cardinal

@TommyType said:
Great. Now beyond training my eye for numismatics, I have to train my NOSE?

Interesting material.

And nice to bring the die and medal back together again!

>

I have a copy of the book Rising From Cottages, by Sue Ellen Snape, which is based on William Blanding's family. Chapter III talks about William Blanding's interest in coins and medals, and identifies some of the techniques used to strike them. There are 2 pages replicating two pages of William's note book in his own handwriting. Many of the letters on the label on the die match some of William's handwriting - including:

• the capital "L" formed with a loop at the bottom left;
• the letter "a" formed like a loop on its side with tails at the top and bottom on the right side;
• the letter "s" with the line ending at the bottom left of the letter;
• the letter "m' is the same; and
• the long tails of the numeral "7" going below the line.

Perhaps handwriting of the day may have commonly included all of those characteristics, but truly the writing seems to be William's handwriting.

1northcoin

@Kove said:
Very interesting info in this thread. Thanks for sharing!

+1

Collect4fun

@ricko said:
Very interesting item and thanks for the information.... I did not realize gutta percha could be used as a die...

Works in my root canal, too.

cardinal

A shout out for Vicken Yegparian of StacksBowers for sharing this with Christopher R. McDowell who has researched William Blanding extensively. Chris has a portion of Blanding's diary, in which he explains how he made some of his copies.

Based on his research and the photos above, Chris says, "There is no doubt in my mind that he produced this piece."

asheland

Very cool!

johnny9434

excellent purchase for sure, I like

joeykoins

D-uuude!!!

Jimnight

Very nice!!

cheezhed

Just a very cool piece.

Zoins

@cardinal said:
A shout out for Vicken Yegparian of StacksBowers for sharing this with Christopher R. McDowell who has researched William Blanding extensively. Chris has a portion of Blanding's diary, in which he explains how he made some of his copies.

Based on his research and the photos above, Chris says, "There is no doubt in my mind that he produced this piece."

That's awesome! It's amazing that you were able to pick this up.

I would love to try making some gutta percha dies. It sounds very interesting. I hope the die for my John Milton Eagle & Serpent piece shows up

NumisOxide

Very cool! Great piece.

cardinal

Another shout out to Vicken, Chris and JD!!

Based on this thread and the additional information from them, Q. David Bowers wants to include this and the history of Williams Blanding in his forthcoming Whitman book on early American numismatic activities.

Zoins

@cardinal said:
Another shout out to Vicken, Chris and JD!!

Based on this thread and the additional information from them, Q. David Bowers wants to include this and the history of Williams Blanding in his forthcoming Whitman book on early American numismatic activities.

Sweet. It’s great to document his history, collection and fabrication techniques more!