What would you do with this Standing Liberty in an old PCI holder?
bcdeluxe
Posts: 209 ✭✭✭
I have now learned from another thread that old ANACS holders will tone coins in a certain manner, but there are plenty of threads about PCI toning.
This coin was purchased by me at a show about 2 years ago and I don't think it has changed much. It's pretty dark in hand, but when lit well looks just like the photo. It's also in an old 10-digit green holder, so it's been there 20+ years, but I'm starting to get concerned that it could continue to tone/get darker. I have no idea what it looked like when it was sent in as I was not the submitter.
It's a fairly common date so I don't think it's going to add much value to get it into a PCGS holder, but I like the holder for the preservation if nothing else. Sorry, I only have a good shot of the obverse. Would you crack and put into an AirTite, leave it, or send it to PCGS? Guess the grade if you like, I'll post the whole holder later.
Comments
My opinion ... leave it.
Leave it in the current slab. Store it in a small zip-lock bag to reduce air circulation to slow the toning process. I don't mind some light toning but the toning on this coin is a little too dark for my taste. I'd like to see a pic of the slab.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My opinion, send it to PCGS in the PCI holder and ask them to treat it as raw. The coin is nearing terminal condition, and it may continue to turn in the PCI holder. Sent an ASE just this week that had continued to turn in the PCI holder.
I’d crack the coin and put it in a 2x2 or a flip myself. You could try an intercept shield holder around the PCI holder to possibly help.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I agree this one is a bit dark. If I'm storing anything for any period of time, I use a vacuum sealer to seal each slab.
Crack and send it immediately to the Weimans bath. Rid the nasty, make her pretty again.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
I would remove it from the holder and only have it graded if I were to sell it. What does the reverse look like?
I'm guessing AU 58 FH_
Nice coin. Not too dark to me at all. I would get it in a PCGS holder.
Quick shot of the reverse with poor lighting and no copy stand.
The reverse shot looks like someone took a DA sander to the plastic. If it's actually as bad as it looks, hammer time. I'll give the coin the benefit of the doubt and say MS 63.
I'd crack it, trueview it, and get it into a brand-new, airtight PCGS slab.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
PCGS slabs aren't air tight.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Maybe not 100% but the newer holders are a lot better than the older ones.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
This poster is not considering the fact that some here will not understand that this is an attempt to be funny. Of course he is giving out bad information. Oh, I forgot to give you a LOL.
PS: OP, it all depends on the color of the label edge and the grade. A little conservation should bring out the color of the obverse and brighten the reverse.
I will not dip this coin. I was not sure if it was a joke or not, I know some (many) of the posters here are not fans of tarnish. Either way it stays as is.
Thanks for trying to tell me what I was attempting to do. I guess we should add the title of psychic to your resume.
No joke, I'd dip the environmental damage right off of her and wouldn't think twice about it.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Is this the stuff your talking about? (In the attachment) Is it safe for coins like acetone and Conserv coin solvent?
I agree, dipping her would bring out colors while eliminating the nasty's!
I find that dark tarnish very ugly and would attempt some level of restoration before that gets terminal. At the very least crack it out and put it in an airtite to try and slow the process, I hate to say that as I quite like the old PCI holders. But that coin was not stored well and is headed to a bad place imo.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Well, what is the current grade?
I am not a fan of such extensive tarnish... it is environmental damage, and will continue to terminal state of black...I realize many here like coins with tarnish... that is fine and I say enjoy whatever pleases you....Just a shame - IMO - to see a nice coin degenerate. Cheers, RickO
I would cross it while you can. It's a beautiful coin.
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I'd leave it alone as in the PCI slab it looks like their typical holder toning.
In any other slab it will look AT.
The color is a bit dark for my taste for this specific issue, but what concerns me more is the reverse at 3 o'clock. .. perhaps it's my eyes (they don't get better with age) but I'm seeing what might be the remnants of a fingerprint??? It may just be on the plastic itself... fwiw, I think it's accurately graded at 55 and just misses an FH designation.
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CPG is around 145 for AU 55. Crossing regular would cost $60 in fees and shipping (invoice) plus your outgoing shipping. Hardly an attractive option. What if it comes back details / downgraded? Then your out the subm cost plus you lose.
It looks nice in the slab photo - I would just put as is in my eBay store PCI AU55 at $150, free ship. Then if no action gradually reduce price over time. This piece is very marketable for many who would crack it and put in their album. A nice piece to fill the hole.
I can’t predict a dip would really improve it or that it would make MS at PCGS. Unless upgrade justifying the fees no incentive for me cross. I would go broke playing the holder / sticker game. From your photo of the slab, It appears to be an attractive CH AU coin with colorful blue and russet toning. I would keep it as is.
If the goal is preservation, there's no need to spend the money on postage and grading, to get the coin into a different holder. Additionally, such fees would amount to a high percentage of its value.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
leave it !!! it looks good the way it is.
Doesn't anyone else see the faint mint mark?
Struck thru ?
Sure would like this to be a 1919-D or 1919-S... Upon closer inspection, I think it's just scratches in the plastic you're seeing. The reverse of the slab could use a bit of polishing as well.
@blitzdude said: "Thanks for trying to tell me what I was attempting to do. I guess we should add the title of PSYCHIC to your resume. No joke, I'd dip the environmental damage right off of her and wouldn't think twice about it."
I see you have a psychic touch of your own also! Yes, very many of my acquaintances through the years swear that I can pick up on their thoughts. However, I would not put it on my resume as it can be extremely unnerving to "normal" folks.
As for dipping, the coin, that is for you to do with your own coins. Over the decades, I've probably seen some of your work among the tens of thousands of coins ruined by amateurs.
I have found that successful, experienced dealers/collectors know what's popular in the coin market. At this time in history, the color coins acquire due to SOME TYPES of "environmental damage" is sought after and very often adds $$$$$$ to a coin. In many cases, color actually increases its grade above its "technical"condition too!.
Furthermore, I'll guarantee that In the hands of an EXPERIENCED numismatist/dealer/conservator/collector/coin doctor that coin will "POP" and no one would know it has been conserved/changed from its present state. So put it next to your "dipped out POS" and guess which will bring the most money at auction for the OP?
Oh, you and I are psychic so we already know the answer to that don't we.
I possibly graded this coin while working at PCI. We were very conservative. It is now undergraded.
I would send this to PCGS for a crossover as is. Cracking it out, it might get QC. It stands a much better chance of grading in the holder.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I've seen lots of SLQs with similar toning in straight PCGS plastic.
While I love the obverse, I'm not wild about the reverse, but I still like it. I'd vote leave it alone. Cool piece!
Dave
I, too, like the obverse color.
Am I wrong for thinking this looks way better than a 55?
Collector, occasional seller
No.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
NOw that I'm on my laptop, and not my phone, I'm still seeing rub on the leg and color breaks on the head and neck... I don't believe this to be an MS coin, but hey... I've been wrong before!
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I think that's the lighting. Here's a shot with light coming from a different direction.
And turns out I have a better shot of the reverse. The reverse is pretty much a monochrome russet color where the obverse is more iridescent. I have a hard time trying to see any rub on the leading edge of the eagle's wing either.
It certainly seems to be an age-old debate of whether you like toning or not, but I myself would take this coin over a dipped, bright-white AU coin any day.
The coin is not MS! However, standards have changed A LOT since that coin was graded. Depending on who cracks it and what they do to it, it could have a chance to reach MS-62. IMO, EVERY major TPGS would straight grad it as AU-58 minimum if submitted as is. I'd keep it as is. Eventually, as standards continue to loosen it may be a lock MS in another decade. AND, there are slab collectors who like "historical" holders from a TPGS no longer in existence.
I've got examples of the 4 different TN PCI holders. Most coins in gold border slabs are not as strictly graded and I don't want the "modern" blue slab from the last PCI. Hallmark Grading Service slabs became the proto-small size PCI holder. Previously, they used the photo holder eventually used by INSAB.
Oh wow! Now THAT's different!! I take back my previous comments. If anything it underscores that one can't realistically grade from an internet image. The "stuff" I thought was on the reverse at 3 o'clock has miraculously disappeared, as has the "color breaks" on the head and neck.
This is a useful thread!
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@bcdeluxe,
I liked it better with the lighter reverse posted at the top of the thread. Still a nice coin that would probably be priced way above an AU.
Looks more full head to me than not. The hairline looks complete from the forehead to ear and the indentation for
the ear is there,
https://www.pcgs.com/News/Tips-From-The-Grading-Room Part 1
https://coinweek.com/education/coin-grading/standing-liberty-quarters-what-is-the-full-head-designation/
I think it has nice character and I'd keep it as is, for now.
I'd call it a FH myself. I have seen far less detail with the FH designation on the holder.
It is possible it was not granted because this is a fairly common date to acquire with a FH. If this were on a 1926-D or 1927-S I think 9 times out of 10 this would be holdered as a FH coin.
As Insider worked at the old green holder PCI company, he knows what he is talking about. I wonder if anyone has internal grading records for the old PCI? NGC and PCGS presumably have internal grading records since their inception.
I like the coin as is.
However, being in a 55 holder, even an old one, may hurt the value if you sell. With no real color breaks on either the high points or the fields, I could see the coin in a 62 holder. I'd either leave it where it is or crack it and put it in your own inert holder to halt the toning. I would not send to PCGS at this point.
I am certain you have seen my work, for all of 3 seconds a pop right before you proceeded to slap my freshly dipped coin right on into a high MS holder.
Any professional that straight grades a AT coin such as the example above should have their credentials pulled at once. Carry on!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@blitzdude said: "I am certain you have seen my work, for all of 3 seconds a pop right before you proceeded to slap my freshly dipped coin right on into a high MS holder. Any professional that straight grades a AT coin such as the example above should have their credentials pulled at once. Carry on!"
Unfortunately, I know you are BEING SERIOUS this time. IMO, you
are 100% misinformed in this thread. 
I should love to have you in a grading class as I could use your remarks as a foil to teach the others!
BTW, I can say with 100% certainty that I have NEVER reached/assigned a final opinion to a coin I've examined in three seconds." However, I always have a "gut impression" in less than one second.
I cannot help it. 
Crack it and put it in a dansco 7070 album
Enjoy it for your life time
Let your heirs decide what to do with it
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set