Perhaps we can settle this by january 1, 2020.

Coinstartled

Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

perkdog

I sincerely think players should be separated by decade but even still there will be no answer to the argument that will satisfy everyone so I say not going to happen.

DIMEMAN

I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

artee

The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind....

craig44

The only accurate way to really compare players is by looking at their domInance in their own eras, against peers. then comparing that performance to other players performance against their peers in their eras.

How else would we ever compare sammy Baugh, Joe Montana and Peyton manning when equipment, strategy, rules and training methods were so different?

JoeBanzai

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

DIMEMAN

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

doubledragon

Yes, if I had a time machine, the first thing I would do is cheat to win the lottery. I'm taking the powerball numbers back through time with me. After that, I'll watch Brady vs Montana.

Coinstartled

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Well, Dime clearly does not have Jason Garrett as the head coach GOAT.

DIMEMAN

@Coinstartled said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Well, Dime clearly does not have Jason Garrett as the head coach GOAT.

Garrett doesn't even qualify as a HC!

JoeBanzai

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

doubledragon

I think we need to extend the deadline for ending all GOAT discussions because we need something to argue about. I think June 20th of 2020 is more appropriate. It's the first day of summer, and the dandelions will be in full bloom.

coinkat

There really is no greatest of all-time.

The discussions get to the point of absurdity to the point of comic relief... And this is documented not just by what gets posted here, but what is actually written in sports publications. A certain sports publication offered what it believed to be the 150 greatest moments in college football. And while I am willing to admit that maybe... Just maybe... I missed seeing the Red Grange performance against Michigan at the time Memorial Stadium was dedicated in 1924 as being worthy of being included... It missed out. The comical element to this is that this game...this performance... was the yardstick for decades that measured what came later in terms of a single game performance.

And this seems to be the most obvious example. But there is simply no interest in sports beyond what has happened within the life of those that experienced the event. History and sports history... even Jazz history... is very fragile in that as time passes more is lost and forgotten and will likely never retain its rightful place in the progression of how sports... Jazz... or other subjects worthy of our interest evolved to what they have become.

And yes...this is sad because what matters has not resinated so that there is a clear appreciation for the evolution of what transpired to make what is possible today.

Please keep in mind this is the Readers Digest condensed version which I suspect will be appreciated for being straight forward and to the point and attacked for the same reason.

Coinstartled

@coinkat said:

And this seems to be the most obvious example. But there is simply no interest in sports beyond what has happened within the life of those that experienced the event. History and sports history... even Jazz history... is very fragile in that as time passes more is lost and forgotten and will likely never retain its rightful place in the progression of how sports... Jazz... or other subjects worthy of our interest evolved to what they have become.

It is obvious then, that you have never listened to Art Tatum (or you were born previous to November 1956).

https://youtu.be/KxadblDT6zI

DIMEMAN

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

LarkinCollector

@coinkat said:
There really is no greatest of all-time.

Tiger disagrees with you, as Jack hides in shame.

coinkat

Coinstartled...

I really am more stunned into silence more than usual by your ridiculous, unfounded and not to mention stupid comments that you made...Do you really think I have not heard the recordings of Art Tatum? Just to be clear I am well aware of who Art Tatum is as well as his significant contributions to jazz. I have seen and at one time owned his earliest Brunswick recordings from 1933. Tatum went onto record far more significant sessions on various labels extending well into the 1950's.

Since you brought up jazz pianists... Do you know who Mary Lou Williams was? Have you heard anything she recorded? Well... To help you out... her first solo piano solo was also for Brunswick burn three years earlier in 1930... Night live... And that was issued on the race Brunswick label. I have owned this. She was the arranger for Andy Kirk. She was the First Lady of jazz and today, most people have no idea who she was or what her contributions were.

So let's not stop there... And because you started with jazz pianists...Do you recognize Frank Melrose, Meade Lux Lewis, Cow Cow Davenport, Albert Ammons, Teddy wilson, Joe Sullivan, James P Johnson, Bennie Moten? And I am stopping now in an effort to make this short . And I will apologize in advance for those that I would have liked to include.

This is my point... It is the Mary Lou Williams as well as the others that I have referenced that have become the forgotten footnotes in Jazz history.

I suppose I can look forward to the same crap as to College football.

Coinstartled

Coinkat, your list is impressive but in no way exhaustive. Before I mention my front row seat in detroit watching Bags jackson on vibes in a 1984 MJQ concert, or my hour long kibbitzing with Maynard Ferguson or the three hour outdoor Arturo Sandoval gig where he kept playing dance music and dared anyone to leave...lets talk about your truculent response to my short comment.

I am a proponent of weighing top athletes within their era and you seem to want to discount the value of anyone that has played before ones time. In that regard, a top 25 college or football player should have no interest in Joe Montana or Michael Jordan as there memories only encompass Tom Brady and Lebron james. That is foolish and insulting to anyone that is not a boomer or older.

You brought jazz into the discussion and when i disproved your point about forgotten musicians by shaking you up with a tatum recording (the jazz GOAT which you will readily agree.) you become insulting.

Soo cool down and have a long drink of laced egg nog, I have a Christmas music compliation to work on on another forum.

LarkinCollector

Watching coin guys arguing sports and jazz is my new favorite pastime. Who needs baseball?

coinkat

And Tiger never experienced the car accident that Ben Hogan did... And within a short time frame, Hogan made the greatest comeback in sports history. First, it's amazing Hogan survived; Second, it is truly amazing what he was able to accomplish in 1953. Tiger never experienced what Hogan did. Neither did anyone else...Jack, Arnie... Pick...Your choice.

All I am writing here is that there is no viable comparison to make that determination. Seems Hogan never made your list and Slammin' Sammy was left out too.

Tiger is great. I appreciate his ability and talent. Golf has changed and the legend of Hogan and Snead should not be deminished based on how the game has chanced

Coinstartled

@LarkinCollector said:
Watching coin guys arguing sports and jazz is my new favorite pastime. Who needs baseball?

The vinyl vs CD donneybrooks make Schmitt vs Brett look like a shuffleboard tournament.

coinkat

Coinstarted... Have you ever owned any of the Earl Hines QRS 78 Rpm piiano solos? I have had the privilege of owning one of the four sessions that exist. Oh and by the way, do you even know who Earl Hines is and that he recorded for QRS? Do you even know that QRS recorded jazz?

My list was never intended to be exhaustive . Are you ready for trumpet players? Or can we agree to limit that to decades?

Coinstartled

Earl "Fatha" Hines is who you are referring to.

What about Bubber Miley, what low tech innovation did he introduce to the Duke Ellington band?

Booker Ervin? Do you know the story behind his Blues for You live set in Germany?

coinkat

Bubber Miley so happens to be one of the greatest jazz trumpet players as well as an arranger that made the Ellington sound what it was and became... Even without him.

coinkat

Have you heard the Miley- Bix Beiderbecke dual on victor V38139? And that would be on the Rocking Chair side.... Not Barnnacle Bill the Sailor side which gets the Beiderbecke benefit which really is outstanding . So Miley scores with the Ellington sessions as well as with the Leo Reisman sessions he recorded under the Victor label... Have you heard Victor 22306.... Puttin on the Ritz? Miley's solo is outstanding and needs to be heard to be appreciated .

coinkat

Maybe what I previously wrote was not adequate to establish the greatness of Bubber Miley....Miley was the sound and an arranger that made Ellington who he was. Miley was involved in what became the Ellington sound. Miley made East Saint Louis Toodle-oo what it was as well as Black and Tan Fantasy. I would go so far to argue Miley was the greatest soulful trumpet player that influenced Miles Davis.

bronco2078

lets say we did? wouldn't you just start 50 more threads on the 2nd?

doubledragon

Never free,
Never me,
So I dub thee unforgiven.

coinkat

Seems you failed to answer as to whether you have any knowledge of the Hines piano solos that were recorded for QRS or OKeh and technically reissued on Columbia in the early 1930's.

Does 57 varieties ring a bell?

coinkat

Coinstarted.... We are waiting.

coinkat

And for those that have no idea who Bubber Miley was, he was in the Ellington band played with Leo Reisman and his own recording sessions with Victor and others including Hoagy Carmichael.

And this illustrates my point ... And be honest ... How many here have even heard of Bubber Miley? Other than myself and Coinstartled.

1951WheatiesPremium

I really don’t understand how people consider anyone other than Babe Ruth the baseball GOAT. He hit and pitched to a very high level of proficiency. No matter who you pick, they will not have pitched. To ignore or minimize this is just crazy to me, regardless of era.

coinkat

Ruth had an impressive record as a pitcher and his other statistics are... Well you know...are what they they are

So... Did the Babe ever meet Bix Beiderbecke or Bubber Miley? Seems possible and even likely

JoeBanzai

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

No homerism there!

1951WheatiesPremium

@LarkinCollector said:
Watching coin guys arguing sports and jazz is my new favorite pastime. Who needs baseball?

Oh...I just assumed they were one person.

Coinstartled

@coinkat said:
Bubber Miley so happens to be one of the greatest jazz trumpet players as well as an arranger that made the Ellington sound what it was and became... Even without him.

But you failed to mention the plunger.

coinkat

While I appreciate the humor, let's take a moment to bring this back within the sports realm... While the Heisman speech we just heard this year was terrific, the speech delivered by NIle Kinnick in1939 was timeless and today most folks would not even know who Nile was... And today there is one place named after him and if it was not for that place, it seems few would remember who Nile Kennick was outside the state of Iowa...

And again... This is why I have written what I have written

coinkat

Mainly because from my perspective it was clear from the recording sessions I cited that Miley was well known for his muted style and use of a plunger that it was not necessary to reference the obvious. And for the record, have you ever heard the six sides that Miley recorded under his own name? Have you ever heard or seen the original Victor record of Miley's recording of I Lost My Gal From Memphis?

Darin

@coinkat said:
Have you heard the Miley- Bix Beiderbecke dual on victor V38139? And that would be on the Rocking Chair side.... Not Barnnacle Bill the Sailor side which gets the Beiderbecke benefit which really is outstanding . So Miley scores with the Ellington sessions as well as with the Leo Reisman sessions he recorded under the Victor label... Have you heard Victor 22306.... Puttin on the Ritz? Miley's solo is outstanding and needs to be heard to be appreciated .

Yes, I remember when Dr. Frankenstein and his monster sang and tap danced to 'puttin on the ritz' and it went
very well until the monster freaked out because of the lights and started running amok.

But seriously, a jazz smackdown on this forum?

There goes the neighborhood!

Darin

@coinkat said:
And for those that have no idea who Bubber Miley was, he was in the Ellington band played with Leo Reisman and his own recording sessions with Victor and others including Hoagy Carmichael.

And this illustrates my point ... And be honest ... How many here have even heard of Bubber Miley? Other than myself and Coinstartled.

I've never heard of Bubber Miley. I have heard of Bubba Starling. He plays for the Royals label.

DIMEMAN

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

No homerism there!

Nope.....He IS the leading career rusher of all time.

Darin

The only coinkat post I actually understood was the Ben Hogan one.
I actually nominated Hogan as a possible GOAT in the golf goat thread.
I'm not sure he is the GOAT, but he's as good a pick as anyone in my opinion.
His dogged determination to succeed after many failures at the start of his career
and the comeback coinkat mentioned after a near fatal car accident is something
I really admire. By sheer force of will he made a success out of himself, which I really admire.

Coinstartled

@coinkat said:
Have you ever heard or seen the original Victor record of Miley's recording of I Lost My Gal From Memphis?

Nicholas Brothers found her in Kalamazoo.

https://youtu.be/t521jxF8tyc

BLUEJAYWAY

10 inch LP's for me of T-Bone Walker,Teddy Wilson,Buddy Rich in the jazz dept.

perkdog

Just give me The Rolling Stones, Pearl Jam and Guns n Roses and I’m good.

doubledragon

@perkdog said:
Just give me The Rolling Stones, Pearl Jam and Guns n Roses and I’m good.

Oh hell yeah.

Coinstartled

Here is the Maynard Ferguson story. It was 1993 or 94. My buddy knew fergusons manager and we were invited backstage to say hi.

Half hour after the show ended MF comes out and grabs a plate of food off the mini buffet. He starts telling stories.. for an hour. Best was about the tour where the old converted school bus that they used broke down. Ferguson's manager was friends with Eddie Van Halen's manager. Van Halen was not on the road so they offered to loan them a bus.

Maynard described in great detail the amenities of this million dollar vehicle. Bar, Jacuzzi, music system, built in theatre...he went on for quite a bit about the abject luxury that this land yacht provided.

When his tour ended, he tipped the driver handsomely and said "please thank Mr Van Halen for letting me use his tour bus."

The driver said he would pass the gratitude along, but explained that it was not actually Eddie's bus, but one of the handful that the roadies used.

JoeBanzai

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

No homerism there!

Nope.....He IS the leading career rusher of all time.

Leading rusher......yes. GOAT...........................not even close.

JoeBanzai

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

No homerism there!

Nope.....He IS the leading career rusher of all time.

So if Frank Gore somehow managed to play long enough for him to pass Smith on the all time leaders list, you would concede Gore was the GOAT?

It COULD happen.

DIMEMAN

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

No homerism there!

Nope.....He IS the leading career rusher of all time.

So if Frank Gore somehow managed to play long enough for him to pass Smith on the all time leaders list, you would concede Gore was the GOAT?

It COULD happen.

If Gore passed him on yards and TD's and Rings...…….sure.

JoeBanzai

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@DIMEMAN said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@Coinstartled said:
Plenty of GOAT threads each year. They are all over the place and generally fun to participate in, but one issue keeps coming up makes any real debate evasive. Perhaps we can come to an agreement by year end.

Does the GOAT in a given sport or position have to be the best if time machined to 2019, or the best in the era in which they played?

Swimmer Mark Spitz has GOAT potential if his times were limited to the 1970's, but in his forties, he beat those record times but was not the best as the younger competitors, eclipsed his improved times.

I vote for best in their era, of course there is still enough controversy regarding training, PEDS and segregated leagues, to name a few.

There's no way to figure it in team sports. Swimming or anything against the clock is a different story.

Unfortunately the time machine doesn't work because you cant just transport them into the modern era without letting them benefit from the modern diet and training techniques.

I will stick to my opinion that in almost every case, you wont get any agreement on a GOAT.

@DIMEMAN said:
I say you can judge between era's and be accurate if you don't let your personal likes and dislikes get in the way like some folks here.

YOU would NEVER be guilty of that sir!!! ;-)

Joe, I think I am objective. If I was a homie on this I would say Aikman is the GOAT. But I look at everything and I have to agree that Brady is the GOAT at QB. Anybody that does not put Brady as the GOAT just doesn't get it.

I would put Aikman in the top 10. Not sure where, but no need to really do that.

How about Emmitt?

What about Emmitt.......except that he is the GOAT RB.

No homerism there!

Nope.....He IS the leading career rusher of all time.

So if Frank Gore somehow managed to play long enough for him to pass Smith on the all time leaders list, you would concede Gore was the GOAT?

It COULD happen.

If Gore passed him on yards and TD's and Rings...…….sure.

Yards should be enough if you are not a homer. Rings shouldn't even be brought up.