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NEWP: 1826 Capped Bust Half!

KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

Picked this up today. Looks UNC. Comments welcome.

If anyone knows the Overton number please let me know. It would be greatly appreciated!

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  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a matter of first impression, it may be Unc. details, but looks cleaned.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m no expert. I just pulled out Overton 3 and have it at O-118 right now. Don’t quote me on it

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019 2:05PM

    @Elcontador said:
    As a matter of first impression, it may be Unc. details, but looks cleaned.

    It’s doesn’t look as bad in hand. Does it look like old cleaning? It still has undisturbed cartwheel luster on both sides.

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  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DNADave said:
    I’m no expert. I just pulled out Overton 3 and have it at O-118 right now. Don’t quote me on it

    Looks like the one but I think it’s O-118a with the die cracks
    http://maibockaddict.com/1826-o-118-r1-capped-bust-half-dollar

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  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is interesting. On the edge it’s supposed to say half but only the ‘h’ remains. Any explanation for this???

    It’s where it looks like there’s weak points

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  • MarkInDavisMarkInDavis Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭✭

    Don’t mean to be negative, but it definitely looks cleaned. Lots of hairlines.

    image Respectfully, Mark
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you like the coin then that is great. If you like the coin and picked it up at a reasonable price then that is even better. However, from the images it is a dipped, cleaned AU.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MarkInDavis said:
    Don’t mean to be negative, but it definitely looks cleaned. Lots of hairlines.

    @TomB said:
    If you like the coin then that is great. If you like the coin and picked it up at a reasonable price then that is even better. However, from the images it is a dipped, cleaned AU.

    What’s the value of it if it’s cleaned. I strongly think it’s UNC details

    Collector
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  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a die crack on ERICA. That is nice, but the coin does look cleaned.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also, my opinion is right along within line with @tomB. Cleaned and it doesn’t look new from here.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • fishteethfishteeth Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Possible a small portion of the coin did not go through the castaing machine. Would be called a guido.

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stman said:
    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    I have a few questions..... :)
    What would be the value of this if it gets graded UNC details cleaned?
    Are each Overton number correspond to each die pairing?
    Why do they only have lettered edge in the earlier ones and how is it stamped on the coin?

    Collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
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  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fishteeth said:
    Possible a small portion of the coin did not go through the castaing machine. Would be called a guido.

    What’s a castaing machine?

    Collector
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  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn’t know exactly how to value it on a details basis.

    Look at the color changes and you might see the coin might not be unc. Of course these days no telling what they will call unc. :)

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019 4:14PM

    @Kliao said:

    @fishteeth said:
    Possible a small portion of the coin did not go through the castaing machine. Would be called a guido.

    What’s a castaing machine?

    Edge lettering machine.
    Fifty cents or half a dollar.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cleaned....shmeaned... I have the same date and everyone said it was cleaned.
    I don't care. I like it.
    A lot.
    CAC did too. :p

  • BustDMsBustDMs Posts: 1,608 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:

    @fishteeth said:
    Possible a small portion of the coin did not go through the castaing machine. Would be called a guido.

    What’s a castaing machine?

    Go to the Newman portal and search Castaing machine and learn more about our early mint.

    I would also suggest membership in The John Reich Collectors Society (JRCS.org).

    As a YN, if you decide to join JRCS PM me and I’ll pay for your second year of membership.

    Q: When does a collector become a numismatist?



    A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.



    A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019 5:07PM

    I agree with those who think the coin looks to be AU details, cleaned.

    If, as you asked about, you want to know the ballpark value of an Unc. details, cleaned example, check out auction results. And for more comprehensive data, I’d also check dates of similar value, not just sales for examples from 1826.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019 5:19PM

    One of our board members put this up here. http://www.maibockaddict.com/capped-bust-half-dollars

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • CommencentsCommencents Posts: 349 ✭✭✭

    Looks Au55 to me. Lightly cleaned coins in general are worth approx 50%-60% of regular coins. Retail prices below

    http://www.numismedia.com/cgi-bin/coinprice.cgi?script=bsthlv&searchtype=any&searchtext=fmv&search=any&nmcode=14513800&guide=prices&guide2=pricesms

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:

    @stman said:
    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    I have a few questions..... :)
    What would be the value of this if it gets graded UNC details cleaned?

    Check ha.com for auction results. Bid for an MS-60 is $775, a cleaned UNC will bring less. However, from the images the coin is a cleaned AU. Bid for an uncleaned AU is $275.

    Are each Overton number correspond to each die pairing?

    Yes, each Overton number is a unique die marriage for the coin's date.

    Why do they only have lettered edge in the earlier ones and how is it stamped on the coin?

    Lettered edges were used as a deterrent for chiseling (or shaving) the edge of the coin to harvest 'free' silver. The lettering was impressed on the edge using a Castaing machine (edge lettering machine). The lettering was imparted before the coin was struck.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin is cleaned AU as many have said already...Just adding support for that determination. Cheers, RickO

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fishteeth said:
    Possible a small portion of the coin did not go through the castaing machine. Would be called a guido.

    Would it be considered an error?

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  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @astrorat said:

    @Kliao said:

    @stman said:
    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    I have a few questions..... :)
    What would be the value of this if it gets graded UNC details cleaned?

    Check ha.com for auction results. Bid for an MS-60 is $775, a cleaned UNC will bring less. However, from the images the coin is a cleaned AU. Bid for an uncleaned AU is $275.

    Are each Overton number correspond to each die pairing?

    Yes, each Overton number is a unique die marriage for the coin's date.

    Why do they only have lettered edge in the earlier ones and how is it stamped on the coin?

    Lettered edges were used as a deterrent for chiseling (or shaving) the edge of the coin to harvest 'free' silver. The lettering was impressed on the edge using a Castaing machine (edge lettering machine). The lettering was imparted before the coin was struck.

    Very interesting. Is there a reason they switch to a reeded edge?

    Collector
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  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,483 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:

    @astrorat said:

    @Kliao said:

    @stman said:
    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    I have a few questions..... :)
    What would be the value of this if it gets graded UNC details cleaned?

    Check ha.com for auction results. Bid for an MS-60 is $775, a cleaned UNC will bring less. However, from the images the coin is a cleaned AU. Bid for an uncleaned AU is $275.

    Are each Overton number correspond to each die pairing?

    Yes, each Overton number is a unique die marriage for the coin's date.

    Why do they only have lettered edge in the earlier ones and how is it stamped on the coin?

    Lettered edges were used as a deterrent for chiseling (or shaving) the edge of the coin to harvest 'free' silver. The lettering was impressed on the edge using a Castaing machine (edge lettering machine). The lettering was imparted before the coin was struck.

    Very interesting. Is there a reason they switch to a reeded edge?

    Did you already try researching the change to reeded edges?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cleaned, but still very nice with remaining luster.

    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Kliao said:

    @astrorat said:

    @Kliao said:

    @stman said:
    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    I have a few questions..... :)
    What would be the value of this if it gets graded UNC details cleaned?

    Check ha.com for auction results. Bid for an MS-60 is $775, a cleaned UNC will bring less. However, from the images the coin is a cleaned AU. Bid for an uncleaned AU is $275.

    Are each Overton number correspond to each die pairing?

    Yes, each Overton number is a unique die marriage for the coin's date.

    Why do they only have lettered edge in the earlier ones and how is it stamped on the coin?

    Lettered edges were used as a deterrent for chiseling (or shaving) the edge of the coin to harvest 'free' silver. The lettering was impressed on the edge using a Castaing machine (edge lettering machine). The lettering was imparted before the coin was struck.

    Very interesting. Is there a reason they switch to a reeded edge?

    Did you already try researching the change to reeded edges?

    Yes, what I could find was that it was a limitation of the press when the mint switched to steam powered presses. The steam powered presses minted the coins in collars which flattened the letters on the edge.

    Collector
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  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Kliao said:

    @astrorat said:

    @Kliao said:

    @stman said:
    What would you like to know about your coin? Great series that perhaps have someone help you. If you’re willing to learn.

    I have a few questions..... :)
    What would be the value of this if it gets graded UNC details cleaned?

    Check ha.com for auction results. Bid for an MS-60 is $775, a cleaned UNC will bring less. However, from the images the coin is a cleaned AU. Bid for an uncleaned AU is $275.

    Are each Overton number correspond to each die pairing?

    Yes, each Overton number is a unique die marriage for the coin's date.

    Why do they only have lettered edge in the earlier ones and how is it stamped on the coin?

    Lettered edges were used as a deterrent for chiseling (or shaving) the edge of the coin to harvest 'free' silver. The lettering was impressed on the edge using a Castaing machine (edge lettering machine). The lettering was imparted before the coin was struck.

    Very interesting. Is there a reason they switch to a reeded edge?

    Did you already try researching the change to reeded edges?

    Yes, what I could find was that it was a limitation of the press when the mint switched to steam powered presses. The steam powered presses minted the coins in collars which flattened the letters on the edge.

    Right. Well, mostly.

    During the ramp-up to steam powered presses the Mint experimented a lot, including striking planchets that had already been through the castaing machine and therefore contained lettered edges. A smooth retaining "close collar" was used so the edge letters were nearly (but not completely) obliterated. Those few that survived are known as Crushed Lettered Edge proofs (CLE's), 1833 O.116, '34 O.122, and '35 O.11. All of R7+ rarity.

    When production got underway in late 1836 the powerful steam presses used reeded edge collars so there was no need for a separate letter-edging process in advance of striking.
    Lance.

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was just looking at eBay sold prices and came across this 1826 PCGS AU50 which seems to have more Distinct Hair lines on the coin but was still given a straight grade. Thaughts?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1826-50-CENT-CAPPED-BUST-O-107-PCGS-AU-50-/202825372903?hash=item2f395594e7:g:kqMAAOSwZCBdhsXQ&nma=true&si=pGaeuWosBLYSsG724KjeYN8IQxg%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d stick to slabbed pieces

    LCoopie = Les
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm in the same camp, AU55 cleaned - but I will add that I think it has a reasonable chance
    of straight grading, from the images provided.

    A very large number of bust halves have had some form of cleaning over their many decades of existence; it's just a matter of if the surfaces are still 'market acceptable' or not....and even this will vary from grader to grader and TPG to TPG.

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU details

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kliao said:
    I was just looking at eBay sold prices and came across this 1826 PCGS AU50 which seems to have more Distinct Hair lines on the coin but was still given a straight grade. Thaughts?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1826-50-CENT-CAPPED-BUST-O-107-PCGS-AU-50-/202825372903?hash=item2f395594e7:g:kqMAAOSwZCBdhsXQ&nma=true&si=pGaeuWosBLYSsG724KjeYN8IQxg%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    A lot of those lines look like die polish not hairlines. They appear to be raised. Hard to tell from the photo.

    PCGS will slab lightly cleaned straight sometimes. They won't straight grade anything with obvious hairlines.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,483 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kliao said:
    I was just looking at eBay sold prices and came across this 1826 PCGS AU50 which seems to have more Distinct Hair lines on the coin but was still given a straight grade. Thaughts?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1826-50-CENT-CAPPED-BUST-O-107-PCGS-AU-50-/202825372903?hash=item2f395594e7:g:kqMAAOSwZCBdhsXQ&nma=true&si=pGaeuWosBLYSsG724KjeYN8IQxg%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    A lot of those lines look like die polish not hairlines. They appear to be raised. Hard to tell from the photo.

    PCGS will slab lightly cleaned straight sometimes. They won't straight grade anything with obvious hairlines.

    In my experience, it would be very unusual if what you’re seeing is die polish and not hairlines on such a coin.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Top of the wing rub. Commercial AU. $225. coin

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Kliao said:
    I was just looking at eBay sold prices and came across this 1826 PCGS AU50 which seems to have more Distinct Hair lines on the coin but was still given a straight grade. Thaughts?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1826-50-CENT-CAPPED-BUST-O-107-PCGS-AU-50-/202825372903?hash=item2f395594e7:g:kqMAAOSwZCBdhsXQ&nma=true&si=pGaeuWosBLYSsG724KjeYN8IQxg%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    A lot of those lines look like die polish not hairlines. They appear to be raised. Hard to tell from the photo.

    PCGS will slab lightly cleaned straight sometimes. They won't straight grade anything with obvious hairlines.

    In my experience, it would be very unusual if what you’re seeing is die polish and not hairlines on such a coin.

    Maybe. I mean some of the lines look like hairlines. But some of the lines look raised to me in the photos.

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