No Updates on Mint’s Cumulative Sales Figures
Intueor
Posts: 310 ✭✭✭✭
Anyone notice that the last update was for "Data Through Week Ending November 3, 2019"?
https://usmint.gov/about/production-sales-figures/cumulative-sales
Anyone know why?
(If there is another thread on this, sorry I missed it!)
unus multorum
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Where are the reports for the last two weeks ? Inquiring minds want to know.
Is this a cover up or the usual non caring and poor performance by the Mint ?
They miss a week every now and then. In this case, maybe Veteran's Day is responsible for the one missed week. The second missed week is a bit unusual.
If I missed paying my employees for a second week they would do something a bit unusual to me.
lol
It is a government entity.... they only issue penalties, they themselves are above such things.
Cheers, RickO
There's a small discussion in this thread. The link points to the relevant posts.
2019 American Innovation Dollar Coins (19G*) - New Jersey Bags/Rolls on sale today...
@BackroadJunkie
Thanks for the heads up. Starting to make sense.
Here is the thing. I have seen this happen a few times in the past towards the end of the production year. They skip two or three weeks of mintage data and then it is back to normal, or almost. During the lull, several offerings, mostly silver and gold commemoratives, and “Specialty” items go off sale and are “No Longer Available/Sold Out” So I checked the website and, sure enough, many of the silver and gold commemoratives and precious metal “Specialty” items are marked as “Limited”. Looks like the Mint is winding down inventory. Please, I am not advocating that we all go out and rush to buy Mint products. However, just a thought: If there is a piece you have been contemplating but just have not pulled the "trigger", you might want to order one in the next couple of days.
They've only missed posting the sales data twice (I think) since they started in 2013. Last week was the third, and maybe the fourth this week, if they don't update it soon. They've been late many times.
I know, 'cause I've got all the data, and it's a mess. Currently 72,933 lines. And the way the Mint stores the data is the least helpful way it could be stored. If the changes they're making doesn't address this, I may put something up. Wouldn't be that hard.
And btw, all commemoratives go off sale the last working day of the year by law, so they never mysteriously disappear from the site. The Mint already has this on the commem page:
I have my own philosophy. If I don't already have it, I probably don't want it. (True ever since they've started subscriptions, so I don't have to remember to order those annual maintenance products...
)
@BackroadJunkie
I admire your stamina for collecting all that data and being so decisive on your Mint acquisitions. I tend to procrastinate on expensive Mint purchases outside my interests.
I too have kept track of sales figures over the years and have found many glaring errors or just plain accounting glitches. The mintage for the 2008 10th oz. Platinum bullion coin is a good example.
Perhaps I should have been more detailed in my reference to variations of silver and gold commemoratives. While it is true, “2019 Commemorative products go off-sale on December 27, 2019, at midnight ET.” there is a caveat. Some of the product variations of commemorative issues can and frequently do become unavailable toward the end of the production year. The Mint is not legally obligated to offer all the coins variations of that year's commemorative series nor would it be expected for the Mint to run the presses for a few individual specimens if the supply is exhausted. Legally, the Mint must “end” the sale for the calendar year of commemorative issues on the 31st of December. However, they are not required to strike more coins if the supply is exhausted or meets production limits. The 2018-W $5 Breast Cancer Awareness Uncirculated strike “disappeared” six weeks before the end of 2018 and took many collectors by surprise. Because the surcharge recipient would be disadvantaged if all variations of a commemorative issue were exhausted (well, maybe not), reason dictates that the Mint strikes enough pieces so that some of the variations will be in inventory to the end of the production year.
Either way, this is just a post on an observation of a curious coincidence, and nothing more….
Still no updated production figures. Last up date was 11/3
I called last week. It seems that the employee who was in charge of it left suddenly.
Probably drove off with a carload full of pre-release Reverse Proof Silver Eagles.
Could he/she be the infamous "Whistle Blower"
Strange coincidence. What if somebody dies? What if somebody is incapacitated? What is somebody quits? What if somebody takes two weeks vacation?
You can search through several years of data and a report was posted EVERY week of the year UNTIL the week of the release of the 2019-S Enhanced Proof Silver Eagle.
The U.S. Mint employs almost 2,000 people. One person leaves and a critical function collapses?
What is Numi News & Coin World going to do w/o updated figures for their magz.
Guesstimate 
Another week w/o any updates...what is going on?
Too soon to know. They don't come out till later in the day.
Perhaps the mint does not consider updating reports to be a critical function?
How are we collectors to know true Mint rarities from contrived scarcities?
I'd say wait till after 5 p.m. Tuesday to be sure we won't have a report for another week. Sometimes you see them before 5 p.m. but not often. I actually have missed seeing these reports recently, not because of the ASE, but because I track the ATB quarter totals.
It will probably be in their annual report.
Could the Russians be hiding it from us?
This is the response I received: (A person quits and the whole department is in shambles)
Thank you for contacting the United States Mint.
The department that generates the Cumulative Sales Figures report is currently undergoing a staffing change. We are working diligently to complete this process as soon as possible. Meanwhile, you may call 202-354-7222 for the latest sales figures.
We appreciate your patience and apologize for any inconvenience.
Sincerely,
United States Mint
Thanks for the news.
Did you call and get the total for 2019-S ERP sales?
Nope...no longer interested in that figure, but I suspect it's less than 30k, but more than 29.5k
@OPA Thanks for the number.
@VanHalen
FYI I called the number for grins. The answering device tells you Michael is not answering his phone and that his mailbox is full. Looks like we burned-out another Mint employee. Got to love Mint SNAFU's.
Wouldn't surprise me, if Michael is the employee who quit.
I spoke to them and they are awaiting final ship of the last few product 😉
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
@Kkathyl
Thanks for the input.
Sounds like a great marketing strategy. Without the actual mintage numbers, “few” is meaningless. Those numbers provide fuel for both collectors and speculators. In the “old days”, the mintages were published late the following year. This brings to mind the poem by John Godfrey Saxe, “The Blind Men and the Elephant”. Collectors must guess the big picture by speculating on the parts we cannot see. I suspect that the updates are just a victim of the Mint’s shift away from collectors toward bulk sales, promotions, and protracted inventory. At this time of year, the Mint is well into production of 2020 product and just does not want to be bothered with yearend trickle sales of date-restricted offerings.
The U.S. Mint employs almost 2,000 people. One person leaves and a critical function collapses?
Sounds like a great marketing strategy.
If nobody bought the items in the past 11 months, why would lack of data bump sales at the very end of the year? Nobody cared about the dogs all year, so why would they care now?
I knew it would happen.
The Mint has moved AWAY from bulk sales and TOWARD individual collectors in the last 20 years.
The Mint has moved AWAY from bulk sales and TOWARD individual collectors in the last 20 years.
Market Segmentation. The question is whether or not it results in more revenue or more collectors in the long run, eh?
I knew it would happen.
Honestly, I think it hurts in the long run. If they did more bulk sales with real discounts (5% is ridiculous) they would have all the retailers as promoters.
Imagine, for example, that the bulk discount was 30% or so and buyers were required to sell at Mint retail until sell out. Every Walmart in America might sell holiday products and annual sets, for example. Don't you think such a broad based effort would have sold out the Apollo coins by now?
I called CS and the person who answered was surprised at this. She took my info and said she would make a report. Well, better than the caned insincere answer "sorry about that" which always indicates they really don't care. I will continue to check on Tuesdays but won't hold my breath.
I love this thread. You are all complaining that the person who did X left. If you had, instead found out that it was an entire office of three people, what would the response be? "I can't believe it takes three people to put out a couple of numbers a month - in the private sector it would be a part-time job for one person"
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Never ascribe to malice & ill-will that which can readily be explained by incompetence!
Just for the record....
I worked in the public sector for 36 years. We became automated 15 years ago. Data far more complicated than production statistics was updated daily so managers and staff had information to base decisions. I find it hard to believe that the production data is not available at least weekly. Based on my experience in automation, I would guess that the data input person quit!
Very good Bill. I'm gonna borrow that one and apply it when it fits. Thanks.
Interesting response ....,reminds me of "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing?"
@Intueor I worked in consulting supporting public sector clients for 25 years... I built some of those systems. The other choice is the person who knew how to generate the publication-ready output.
@BillDugan1959 and @Kudbegud - it's often quoted as Hanlon's Razor (https://jargon-file.org/archive/jargon-2.1.1.dos.txt, about halfway down)
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
A billion tons of gold? They must be mining on other planets
So, the mintages of annual proof sets is a matter of national security? But it wasn't for the last 20 years?
Hmm... well then these annual reports must be worth their weight in gold with all the “national security” data contained therein.
https://www.usmint.gov/about/reports
Another week w/o the stats. What's your guess when they will fix the issue.
My guess: Christmas eve 12/24
Has any body called the good educated folks at the Mint? Maybe someone there can give us a perfectly rational explanation as to why no numbers have been given.
11 or 12 posts up. Call was made by Kudbegud on the 7th....
I have not heard a single educated word from those educated folks in the know at the puzzle palace also known as the U.S. Mint.
W H A T ?
Yes, really.
I called CS, explained I had called previously about the lack of updates to the Cumulative Sales Report. After a little back and forth I was given Mike White's number. Called his office. The person who answered said they were having a personnel shuffle which has delayed the posting of the numbers. She did have the numbers and gave me 29,773 for the Enhanced Reverse Proof 2019 S ASE 19XE. I also got the number for the 2019 Palladium 19EK - 15,534
@Kudbegud
Thanks for the follow-up and updates. Now if each of us calls, depending on our interests, we may get the whole picture despite the "shuffle" .
What could have happened to those other 227 of the 30,000 mintage?
Collector, occasional seller