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It’s time for new sales techniques USM

7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

While thinking about today’s debacle and website issues—there needs to be a better way to hold these sales.
Things to avoid....
—-website issues
—-rediculous stunts (lines of hired “actors”)
—-waiting rooms, etc etc etc
IMO, a membership level at the USM based on multiple factors—-time, level of purchases, level of returns.....
Just like they canadian Mint has “levels” of membership which would allow you early entry into sales like today’s...
Sales would be more orderly, would eliminate hired actors, would eliminate last minute hired online buyers, would be fair if implemented correctly.
USM. Are you listening?

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Comments

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    By “time” I mean the amount of time you’ve been in the Mint mailing list and been an active buyer
    It could be something like 1)more than a year 2) more than 5 years AND at least some reasonable Amy of purchases like $500....
    You could have the old Platinum members/Gold members/Silver members
    And those could be admitted at later times to the sale

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    Regulating the flow and purchases while giving your most dedicated members/buyers a head start

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    I agree. That coin should be removed from inventory and you should be able to execute that purchase later.
    Unfortunately not how the Mint operates—it’s another world

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:
    Regulating the flow and purchases while giving your most dedicated members/buyers a head start

    Why won't the regular flippers all be at the top of the line? They are long time customers and spend more money than the average collector.

  • bigjpstbigjpst Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I> @Smudge said:

    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    I agree. This is the one that makes the most sense, but what about people who get 500 or 1000 people to just place the item in the bag and then can’t pay. Or then pay slowly as they pre sell them. How do they regulate the household limit issue then?
    People will find a way to game the system no matter how the system is set up. What’s the alternative. Mint to demand on everything until nobody cares?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    I agree. That coin should be removed from inventory and you should be able to execute that purchase later.
    Unfortunately not how the Mint operates—it’s another world

    I disagree. Then a would-be flipper could put it in their bag and sit on it to see if there is going to be a sell out and then cancel it later. That is what killed the 2017-S Enhanced Uncirculated Set - massive cancellations. The item is not sold in any real sense until you actually pay for it.

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    There are long time customers who buy many issues and flip as well.
    You’ll never conquer those
    But I would bet the highest percentage of flippers today wether online or standing in line we’re not long time Mint cutomers

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    You aren't committed to buy at that point.

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @7over8 said:

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    I agree. That coin should be removed from inventory and you should be able to execute that purchase later.
    Unfortunately not how the Mint operates—it’s another world

    I disagree. Then a would-be flipper could put it in their bag and sit on it to see if there is going to be a sell out and then cancel it later. That is what killed the 2017-S Enhanced Uncirculated Set - massive cancellations. The item is not sold in any real sense until you actually pay for it.

    You could have a countdown clock on the time to commit the purchase like other coin sites

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    The point is if you are at the point of “Place Order” and several times the site craps out....that’s pure BS
    Should have 2-3 mins countdown to purchase—-item is reserved

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @7over8 said:

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    I agree. That coin should be removed from inventory and you should be able to execute that purchase later.
    Unfortunately not how the Mint operates—it’s another world

    I disagree. Then a would-be flipper could put it in their bag and sit on it to see if there is going to be a sell out and then cancel it later. That is what killed the 2017-S Enhanced Uncirculated Set - massive cancellations. The item is not sold in any real sense until you actually pay for it.

    You could have a countdown clock on the time to commit the purchase like other coin sites

    I suppose, but that may not make any of these people happier. The only reason you might have gotten one into your cart at all is because not all the 29,000 people ahead of you had managed to process their payment yet. All you're doing is moving the bottleneck farther forward.

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    Membership levels is the way to go
    Earlier entry into the sale

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    Things have to change to be a fairer distribution
    Nothing has worked to date
    Waiting rooms, etc etc
    Time for membership levels—which would take probably 50% or more of the volume at sale day away

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    Later entry for levels or members, last entry for non members
    Think about it—if mon members couldn’t execute an order until 12:30pm; they wouldn’t even get one and wouldn’t be interested
    Platinum membership would be first in at 12; maybe gold member at 12:15; etc
    This is not hard to do
    It’s already working in other numismatic/mint venues

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:
    Later entry for levels or members, last entry for non members
    Think about it—if mon members couldn’t execute an order until 12:30pm; they wouldn’t even get one and wouldn’t be interested
    Platinum membership would be first in at 12; maybe gold member at 12:15; etc
    This is not hard to do
    It’s already working in other numismatic/mint venues

    But then your business model intentionally locks out possible new customers...

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    The point is to build your membership level up so you can participate at the earlier time—-

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:
    The point is to build your membership level up so you can participate at the earlier time—-

    No novice buying their first coin is going to buy into a 5 year commitment to "build up" their membership level.

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    We all start somewhere

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:
    We all start somewhere

    True. But you do realize that you want to write the rules so that you end up near the front of the line? Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    You aren't committed to buy at that point.

    Well I was trying pretty hard. The site kept hanging up, asking for info they already had.

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    If you don’t use multiple criteria it will be too skewed
    It can’t be just based on any of purchases—then those who don’t have much funds for coins are shut out
    But if it were a reasonable level of repeated purchases in each year plus a time component (of being a customer) now you have a fairer method

  • Dollar2007Dollar2007 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019 2:40PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @7over8 said:
    We all start somewhere

    True. But you do realize that you want to write the rules so that you end up near the front of the line? Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

    Exactly. This thread comes off so privileged. Membership levels based on past purchases to buy something from produced by the US Government just sounds ridiculous. I can’t even think of many private sales that operate that way.

    Edit: and this is coming from someone who missed out on one today. Give me a website that doesn’t crash and let the fastest person win.

  • PedzolaPedzola Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dollar2007 said:
    No to any of this. They just need a website that doesn’t crash. Then just let it be first come first served.

    This.

  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭

    @Dollar2007 said:
    No to any of this. They just need a website that doesn’t crash. Then just let it be first come first served.

    This is the answer, then it's just free market capitalism, like it should be.

  • mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stop FAKE rarities. Everything can be minted up to 100,000,000 with a limit of 1 per day, and then see what shakes out.

    TIRED TIRED of the FAKE MINT game.

    Like REALLY tired. 55 years of collecting, now with Chinese Fakes, grade creep, AT vs NT, everything is DRECK except top registry, etc. the joy of collecting is fading, so maybe it is time to refocus the collection down to a group that is joyful.

  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You think the mint would be able to hang their ecommerce site off of a host like Amazon that can handle large volumes of traffic.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @7over8 said:
    We all start somewhere

    True. But you do realize that you want to write the rules so that you end up near the front of the line? Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

    Just looking for a fairer method
    You don’t know my level of purchases
    I could be a Mint customer for 40 years but possibly have not bought anything for the last 35.
    So, if that were the case, I would have to meet the purchase criteria in let’s say the calendar year before I could get in.......
    Hypothetically

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mustangmanbob said:
    Stop FAKE rarities. Everything can be minted up to 100,000,000 with a limit of 1 per day, and then see what shakes out.

    TIRED TIRED of the FAKE MINT game.

    Like REALLY tired. 55 years of collecting, now with Chinese Fakes, grade creep, AT vs NT, everything is DRECK except top registry, etc. the joy of collecting is fading, so maybe it is time to refocus the collection down to a group that is joyful.

    I highly recommend sticking to "joyful". My favorite coins are things other people consider dreck or outright garbage. LOL. But I have little money tied up in them and they bring me joy.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    First come, first served.....I do not agree with membership levels etc., that just excludes many, many people....Coins for the 'privileged few'...next we will be hearing about 'numismatist privilege'....Just get the technical capability to handle the sales....Cheers, RickO

  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭

    @Dollar2007 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @7over8 said:
    We all start somewhere

    True. But you do realize that you want to write the rules so that you end up near the front of the line? Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)

    Exactly. This thread comes off so privileged. Membership levels based on past purchases to buy something from produced by the US Government just sounds ridiculous. I can’t even think of many private sales that operate that way.

    Edit: and this is coming from someone who missed out on one today. Give me a website that doesn’t crash and let

    The method would work. It would eliminate the nonsense that’s going on as well.
    coupled with a website that doesn’t crash as well

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:
    While thinking about today’s debacle and website issues—there needs to be a better way to hold these sales.
    Things to avoid....
    —-website issues
    —-rediculous stunts (lines of hired “actors”)
    —-waiting rooms, etc etc etc
    IMO, a membership level at the USM based on multiple factors—-time, level of purchases, level of returns.....
    Just like they canadian Mint has “levels” of membership which would allow you early entry into sales like today’s...
    Sales would be more orderly, would eliminate hired actors, would eliminate last minute hired online buyers, would be fair if implemented correctly.
    USM. Are you listening?

    Easy, don't announce the mintage for any issue. Whatever is ordered is what is made. Rarity will e known after the fact.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:

    @7over8 said:
    While thinking about today’s debacle and website issues—there needs to be a better way to hold these sales.
    Things to avoid....
    —-website issues
    —-rediculous stunts (lines of hired “actors”)
    —-waiting rooms, etc etc etc
    IMO, a membership level at the USM based on multiple factors—-time, level of purchases, level of returns.....
    Just like they canadian Mint has “levels” of membership which would allow you early entry into sales like today’s...
    Sales would be more orderly, would eliminate hired actors, would eliminate last minute hired online buyers, would be fair if implemented correctly.
    USM. Are you listening?

    Easy, don't announce the mintage for any issue. Whatever is ordered is what is made. Rarity will e known after the fact.

    That'll guarantee that sales plummet. Why would anyone jump in for an unknown, possibly unlimited mintage?

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ChrisH821 said:

    @7over8 said:
    While thinking about today’s debacle and website issues—there needs to be a better way to hold these sales.
    Things to avoid....
    —-website issues
    —-rediculous stunts (lines of hired “actors”)
    —-waiting rooms, etc etc etc
    IMO, a membership level at the USM based on multiple factors—-time, level of purchases, level of returns.....
    Just like they canadian Mint has “levels” of membership which would allow you early entry into sales like today’s...
    Sales would be more orderly, would eliminate hired actors, would eliminate last minute hired online buyers, would be fair if implemented correctly.
    USM. Are you listening?

    Easy, don't announce the mintage for any issue. Whatever is ordered is what is made. Rarity will e known after the fact.

    That'll guarantee that sales plummet. Why would anyone jump in for an unknown, possibly unlimited mintage?

    Because people might think the same way as you do.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    bership which would allow you early entry into sales like today’s...

    Sales would be more orderly, would eliminate hired actors, would eliminate last minute hired online buyers, would be fair if implemented correctly.
    USM. Are you listening?

    Easy, don't announce the mintage for any issue. Whatever is ordered is what is made. Rarity will e known after the fact.

    That'll guarantee that sales plummet. Why would anyone jump in for an unknown, possibly unlimited mintage?

    Because people might think the same way as you do.

    They would think like me that there's no point in buying it????

  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,264 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How about not announcing the release date/time. ?

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019 3:19PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @ChrisH821 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    bership which would allow you early entry into sales like today’s...

    Sales would be more orderly, would eliminate hired actors, would eliminate last minute hired online buyers, would be fair if implemented correctly.
    USM. Are you listening?

    Easy, don't announce the mintage for any issue. Whatever is ordered is what is made. Rarity will e known after the fact.

    That'll guarantee that sales plummet. Why would anyone jump in for an unknown, possibly unlimited mintage?

    Because people might think the same way as you do.

    They would think like me that there's no point in buying it????

    No, they would realize that people may not buy it due to unknown mintage, then they could end up with a rarity.
    Besides, the coins with 100k+ mintage seem to sell just fine so what's the difference?
    People buy from the mint for other reasons than making money.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • djmdjm Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    There were 90,000 coins in the cart just after noon. How can they possibly honor them all with 30,000 coins.

    FWIW; This was a record for retail online purchases. No other site has ever had the traffic that the mint website had at 12:00

  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good topic @7over8 .
    Throw out an idea, let people take shots, add to it, subtract from it...

    Today's fiasco left the majority frustrated so it's only natural to think that there has to be a better way. Even though there may not be.

    The crazy website falling on its face was a disaster but the bottom line is with that few coins available, it's guaranteed frustration.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 640 ✭✭✭

    Just maybe they will all be labeled and set at the dock for shipping and the contractor can send them to the same place that the Lane Gold coins were sent and everyone won't ask any questions as to how or where they were shipped and everybody will be Happy.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    But if you advertise that you will mint a maximum of 30,000 and then make more, you're guilty of fraud whether actual or constructive.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @djm said:

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    There were 90,000 coins in the cart just after noon. How can they possibly honor them all with 30,000 coins.

    FWIW; This was a record for retail online purchases. No other site has ever had the traffic that the mint website had at 12:00

    Where are you getting your data from?

  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @djm said:

    @Smudge said:
    If a coin is in your shipping bag the order should be honored despite their screwups.

    There were 90,000 coins in the cart just after noon. How can they possibly honor them all with 30,000 coins.

    FWIW; This was a record for retail online purchases. No other site has ever had the traffic that the mint website had at 12:00

    I think the Olive Garden endless meals card had more traffic as it sold out in less than a second. Now if the mint could use their ecommerce platform...

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 905 ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe they should make enough to satisfy demand

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fiftysevener said:
    Maybe they should make enough to satisfy demand

    That eliminates excitement. IF this was yet another Eagle issued this year with an unlimited mintage, would anyone have lined up at Baltimore? Would we have anticipated this day for 2 months? Would we all have logged into our computers at 12:00?

    This became an EVENT because of the limited availability.

    It is disappointing that so many people don't see that.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They should randomly mix them in with the bullion coins.

    The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 905 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @fiftysevener said:
    Maybe they should make enough to satisfy demand

    That eliminates excitement. IF this was yet another Eagle issued this year with an unlimited mintage, would anyone have lined up at Baltimore? Would we have anticipated this day for 2 months? Would we all have logged into our computers at 12:00?

    This became an EVENT because of the limited availability.

    It is disappointing that so many people don't see that.

    Sure I get that but like many others who were logged in at 11:58 and refreshed at 12:00:02, we might wonder if they may have been sold out at 12:00:01

  • santinidollarsantinidollar Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7over8 said:

    USM. Are you listening?

    No. And what are you going to do about it?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @santinidollar said:

    @7over8 said:

    USM. Are you listening?

    No. And what are you going to do about it?

    Keep stamping my feet?

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