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I have an authentic AU $10 Indian with unusual feathers on the wing. **Answered**

Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 6, 2019 3:55PM in U.S. Coin Forum

One of the first places to look for wear on the $10 Indian is the shoulder of the eagle's wing. While examining this coin for authentication and grade. I noticed an unusual feather pattern. Could this be a "special" coin?

PLEASE NOTE: It takes too much effort to post these if the knowledgeable folks answer in the first reply. I know you know the answers. Let's give the newer members a chance to think these out.

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    Moxie15Moxie15 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    spark erosion counterfeit?

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    ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The neck looks suspiciously thin.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin is authentic.

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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,708 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tooled.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,989 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Reengraved?

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    thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1908 No Motto, stippled eagle variety.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WaterSport said:
    Tooled.

    WS

    @coinJP said:
    Reengraved?

    Both tooling and reengraving involve moving metal on the surface. So neither of these. Possible pattern?

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thebeav said:
    1908 No Motto, stippled eagle variety.

    I thought it might be a "new" variety. Show us yours..

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    ElectricityElectricity Posts: 311 ✭✭✭

    Die scratches?

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    ElectricityElectricity Posts: 311 ✭✭✭

    Since you said special coin, I was thinking proof with polished dies that had lint or some other material that was struck onto the coin

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    thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @thebeav said:
    1908 No Motto, stippled eagle variety.

    I thought it might be a "new" variety. Show us yours..

    I'm just being facetious....sorry......

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Electricity said:
    Die scratches?

    Keep guessing. Do those feathers look like scratches?

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    kazkaz Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe some type of metal "stippling tool" was used to apply texture (like a tiny meat tenderizer) thus concealing wear?

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    ElectricityElectricity Posts: 311 ✭✭✭

    Was this Coin Underwater?

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    KliaoKliao Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Damaged coin? Re engraved details?

    Young Numismatist/collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
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    ElectricityElectricity Posts: 311 ✭✭✭

    Possibly in a piece of jewelry?

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Weird looking..... Seeing that on a potential purchase would cause me to move on.....Cheers, RickO

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Never use 60 grit flips! :o

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    gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rusted die...wild guess.

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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No. PMD. Also reject for Thanksgiving dinner.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    John2000John2000 Posts: 81 ✭✭✭

    Bad planchet. Looks like many Jeffersons.

    I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Answer will be posted late tonight.

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe someone trying to "improve" the coin.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Smudge said:
    Maybe someone trying to "improve" the coin.

    Possible I guess, but why and how?

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $ and a tool of some kind.

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmmm... well, this one is a poser... My first thought was counterfeit, but you said the piece is authentic. Then I thought tooled, but you're right... I don't really see any metal being removed. I guess I'm down to struck through something that left a repetitive mark on the wing.

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    fcfc Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭

    Looks like someone just say down with a penny nail or something and started poking it for fun.

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    fcfc Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭

    Perhaps poked to hide graffiti or an obvious scratch of some sort. An attempt to improve the coin.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,538 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Delam on a bad planchet?

    Have no clue otherwise.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    John2000John2000 Posts: 81 ✭✭✭

    It does look a bit like the gold Buffalos with the "hand hammered" fields.
    Could be done with detailing tools for metal, jewelry, etc...

    I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈

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    ElectricityElectricity Posts: 311 ✭✭✭

    I’m still thinking jewelry piece, that had a clamp pressed onto the reverse of the coin

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    ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    Would you post a pic of the whole reverse before giving the answer?

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    HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Watching and learning.

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    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like someone stippled the wing with a sharp tool to hide or camouflage wear or other problems.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2019 12:39PM

    @ffcoins said:
    Would you post a pic of the whole reverse before giving the answer?

    Coin sent back. This is the important part and the reason it looks different.

    I find it very helpful if I describe what I'm looking at. Try to describe the feather design on the wing of this coin to a blind collector who cannot see them. The reason I posted this image is because they look different than those on the other $10 Indians around here.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I must be guilty of MASSIVE underuse of my loupe. :/

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    ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 517 ✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @ffcoins said:
    Would you post a pic of the whole reverse before giving the answer?

    Coin sent back. This is the important part and the reason it looks different.

    I find it very helpful if I describe what I'm looking at. Try to describe the feather design on the wing of this coin to a blind collector who cannot see them. The reason I posted this image is because they look different than those on the other $10 Indians around here.

    Fair enough. I’m just wondering what it would have looked like/how much it would have stood out from a little farther away. Up close it looks like the surface has been eaten away by something (not sure what would eat away gold though).

    If the shoulder of the wing was originally worn smooth though, it’s possible someone roughed it up a little in the hopes it would look like the fine textured feathers on an MS or better struck eagle in the hopes of passing it off as a better specimen.

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,329 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are those from the edge of another coin?

    Collector, occasional seller

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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    [whistling silently]

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,989 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmm... Sand or media blasted?
    Maybe the the coin was taped up except for the wings and shot with some abrasive course media to give that pockmark texture.

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Partially grease-filled die or struck-through would be my guesses.

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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    One of the first places to look for wear on the $10 Indian is the shoulder of the eagle's wing.

    FWIW that's the bird's wrist, not the shoulder. But everyone "gets" shoulder.

    No guess on the waffle look except that it's PMD.
    Lance.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lkeigwin said:

    @Insider2 said:
    One of the first places to look for wear on the $10 Indian is the shoulder of the eagle's wing.

    FWIW that's the bird's wrist, not the shoulder. But everyone "gets" shoulder.

    No guess on the waffle look except that it's PMD.
    Lance.

    Excellent point!

    While the joint at the "shoulder" is attached to the body and the part showing is correctly called the "wrist" of a wing, it seems that when the wing is folded next to the body it resembles and is called a "shoulder" by most folks. Sadly, I think it's best if I continue to post incorrectly so others "get it." :)

    PS It is informed posters such as yourself that make this place a great place to learn.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is an altered coin. Someone has taken a "tool" of some kind and marked up the worn area of the wing turning an obvious AU into a beat up MS coin. Here is a similar yet better executed alteration on a Morgan dollar. Just another reason to purchase coins that are already graded.

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    thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    People have got to use their Tandy leather tools for more than just making wallets. It's called multi-tasking.

    thefinn
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    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting - seems like it would turn a AU coin into Genuine rather than a beat up MS??

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Interesting - seems like it would turn a AU coin into Genuine rather than a beat up MS??

    Right. A genuine AU with obvious wear to a genuine beat up MS coin with no wear.

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    CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @Lakesammman said:
    Interesting - seems like it would turn a AU coin into Genuine rather than a beat up MS??

    Right. A genuine AU with obvious wear to a genuine beat up MS coin with no wear.

    Except who looks for wear there on this series? Not any graders or professionals I know.

    Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com

    CN eBay

    All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!

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