@CuKevin said: "...Except who looks for wear there on this series? Not any graders or professionals I know."
Interesting. I know at least one professional you don't know who looks at that spot FIRST, even before looking at the hair curl over the eye on the obverse. It's funny how that exact spot is noted as the high point of the reverse design on these coins in the NCI Grading Guide by James Halperin. Perhaps those graders and professionals you know should...
@Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
@OldIndianNutKase said: @Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
OINK
Humorous story....
In the early 1980's, I was teaching a grading class at Adelphi Univ. in NY. Back then, the definition of Mint State was STILL "No trace of wear." I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58. Then, one of my students asked me a question. What would the coin grade if he took the mark-free AU-58 dollar with a little rub on the eagle's breast and used the edge of another dollar to hit the area of rub so as to hide the change of color at the point of wear? Then the coin would no longer have any trace of wear - only a few contact marks on its high points. Obviously, he was not the only person to think of this.
I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58.
Maybe it does, eventually.
But first it travels through 64, 63, 62, 61, 60, and 59.
Obviously.
@OldIndianNutKase said: @Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
OINK
Humorous story....
In the early 1980's, I was teaching a grading class at Adelphi Univ. in NY. Back then, the definition of Mint State was STILL "No trace of wear." I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58. Then, one of my students asked me a question. What would the coin grade if he took the mark-free AU-58 dollar with a little rub on the eagle's breast and used the edge of another dollar to hit the area of rub so as to hide the change of color at the point of wear? Then the coin would no longer have any trace of wear - only a few contact marks on its high points. Obviously, he was not the only person to think of this.
Interesting. Was the class offered through the college or another organization just using the space.I Wish the ANA or another organization offered classes in numismatic courses in NYC, queens, long island.
I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58.
Maybe it does, eventually.
But first it travels through 64, 63, 62, 61, 60, and 59.
Obviously.
What nonsense! You know better than this! I thought you were an older numismatist. Hopefully, the new kiddies will not be confused by your post.
As I wrote (I was there), at one time the definition of Uncirculated or Mint State was NO TRACE OF WEAR!
Then, at least one major dealer introduced the term "Cabinet Friction" to explain the AU's they were selling as Mint State. We joked at the folly of it using the example of a pregnant woman (AU) or not (MS). It was a simple black or white determination/example.
Uncirculated coins were ranked by several factors - just as now except today there are more "holes" - 60 to 70 (which at one time DID NOT EXIST although there were "perfect" MS-70's around at the time). THE AMOUNT OF FRICTION WEAR WAS NEVER ONE OF THEM! Therefore, a perfect Mint State Silver Eagle coin does not decrease in grade from MS-70 down through the other numbers EACH TIME I KICK IT ACROSS A ROUGH CEMENT FLOOR! It becomes AU after the first several feet! See, it is not complicated. EXCEPT for the fact that many of today's low MS coins are actually AU's because the actual wear on them is "market acceptable" do to the a change in grading standards.
@OldIndianNutKase said: @Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
OINK
Humorous story....
In the early 1980's, I was teaching a grading class at Adelphi Univ. in NY. Back then, the definition of Mint State was STILL "No trace of wear." I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58. Then, one of my students asked me a question. What would the coin grade if he took the mark-free AU-58 dollar with a little rub on the eagle's breast and used the edge of another dollar to hit the area of rub so as to hide the change of color at the point of wear? Then the coin would no longer have any trace of wear - only a few contact marks on its high points. Obviously, he was not the only person to think of this.
Interesting. Was the class offered through the college or another organization just using the space.I Wish the ANA or another organization offered classes in numismatic courses in NYC, queens, long island.
It was offered by the collage through FirstCoinvestors then the course traveled to TX, IL, MA, RI, LA, PA, NY. Contact your local coin club and write the ANA. The Garden City Class was every Saturday for about eight weeks.
@OldIndianNutKase said: @Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
OINK
Humorous story....
In the early 1980's, I was teaching a grading class at Adelphi Univ. in NY. Back then, the definition of Mint State was STILL "No trace of wear." I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58. Then, one of my students asked me a question. What would the coin grade if he took the mark-free AU-58 dollar with a little rub on the eagle's breast and used the edge of another dollar to hit the area of rub so as to hide the change of color at the point of wear? Then the coin would no longer have any trace of wear - only a few contact marks on its high points. Obviously, he was not the only person to think of this.
Interesting. Was the class offered through the college or another organization just using the space.I Wish the ANA or another organization offered classes in numismatic courses > @Insider2 said: @coinJP said:
@OldIndianNutKase said: @Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
OINK
Humorous story....
In the early 1980's, I was teaching a grading class at Adelphi Univ. in NY. Back then, the definition of Mint State was STILL "No trace of wear." I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58. Then, one of my students asked me a question. What would the coin grade if he took the mark-free AU-58 dollar with a little rub on the eagle's breast and used the edge of another dollar to hit the area of rub so as to hide the change of color at the point of wear? Then the coin would no longer have any trace of wear - only a few contact marks on its high points. Obviously, he was not the only person to think of this.
Interesting. Was the class offered through the college or another organization just using the space.I Wish the ANA or another organization offered classes in numismatic courses in NYC, queens, long island.
It was offered by the collage through FirstCoinvestors then the course traveled to TX, IL, MA, RI, LA, PA, NY. Contact your local coin club and write the ANA. The Garden City Class was every Saturday for about eight weeks.
That isn't too far from me. Wasn't born yet, though. 1988 I started my existence lol
Comments
@CuKevin said: "...Except who looks for wear there on this series? Not any graders or professionals I know."
Interesting. I know at least one professional you don't know who looks at that spot FIRST, even before looking at the hair curl over the eye on the obverse. It's funny how that exact spot is noted as the high point of the reverse design on these coins in the NCI Grading Guide by James Halperin. Perhaps those graders and professionals you know should...
@Insider2, I give you great credit for invalid contact marks to divert an authentic grade. The subtle quality of the contact marks would not attract the attention of most collectors. Might not attract the attention of most TPGs.
OINK
Humorous story....
In the early 1980's, I was teaching a grading class at Adelphi Univ. in NY. Back then, the definition of Mint State was STILL "No trace of wear." I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58. Then, one of my students asked me a question. What would the coin grade if he took the mark-free AU-58 dollar with a little rub on the eagle's breast and used the edge of another dollar to hit the area of rub so as to hide the change of color at the point of wear? Then the coin would no longer have any trace of wear - only a few contact marks on its high points. Obviously, he was not the only person to think of this.
I explained that when an MS-65 (Choice Unc at the time) fully lustrous and virtually mark free Morgan dollar gets a slight amount of "rub" it becomes a Choice Au-58.
Maybe it does, eventually.
But first it travels through 64, 63, 62, 61, 60, and 59.
Obviously.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Interesting. Was the class offered through the college or another organization just using the space.I Wish the ANA or another organization offered classes in numismatic courses in NYC, queens, long island.
What nonsense! You know better than this! I thought you were an older numismatist. Hopefully, the new kiddies will not be confused by your post.
As I wrote (I was there), at one time the definition of Uncirculated or Mint State was NO TRACE OF WEAR!
Then, at least one major dealer introduced the term "Cabinet Friction" to explain the AU's they were selling as Mint State. We joked at the folly of it using the example of a pregnant woman (AU) or not (MS). It was a simple black or white determination/example.
Uncirculated coins were ranked by several factors - just as now except today there are more "holes" - 60 to 70 (which at one time DID NOT EXIST although there were "perfect" MS-70's around at the time). THE AMOUNT OF FRICTION WEAR WAS NEVER ONE OF THEM! Therefore, a perfect Mint State Silver Eagle coin does not decrease in grade from MS-70 down through the other numbers EACH TIME I KICK IT ACROSS A ROUGH CEMENT FLOOR! It becomes AU after the first several feet! See, it is not complicated. EXCEPT for the fact that many of today's low MS coins are actually AU's because the actual wear on them is "market acceptable" do to the a change in grading standards.
It was offered by the collage through FirstCoinvestors then the course traveled to TX, IL, MA, RI, LA, PA, NY. Contact your local coin club and write the ANA. The Garden City Class was every Saturday for about eight weeks.
That isn't too far from me. Wasn't born yet, though. 1988 I started my existence lol
I was searching for something else but found this rather interesting
Presumably it graded reverse damage.
Post strike damage, nothing special.