So how much does it really cost a credit card company to process a transaction? I would wager a bare bones operation with no guarantees,cash back, etc. it would be less than a tenth of a percent! You have to think big with the millions of dollars of transactions they do daily!
@jmlanzaf said:
Anyone who spends more than 3 seconds worrying about this change hasn't done the math.
I did the math. Refund on a $2000 coin is a $58 Paypal fee hit. Plus a $30 whack on two way shipping. That is $88 bucks because the high bidder had remorse. No seller will be pleased with that kind of hit on a low margin PCGS graded Morgan or Saint.
And what happens when a casual or perhaps vindictive Ebay buyer makes numerous approval type purchases with Ebay's easy and free returns to creating cost and mayhem to coin sellers.
True that to the seller of $40 bobbleheads the new policy is incidental. But this a PCGS coin forum and the coins slabbed by this top grader are often high dollar and low margin and the transaction costs are important to the memebers of this board.
That's faulty math. My returns run about 1 in 500 coins. Your $88 whack needs to be distributed over 500 coins. In other words, the new policy adds SEVENTEEN CENTS to the price of your coin.
Last year I must have sold (20) $20 double eagles on e-bay. I was receiving a $20 max final selling fee. I believe 1 was returned? Using the numbers ...lets say I was paying $60 (Paypal & shipping) + $20 FVF = $80 total cost of selling. Sure, I took 1 back so my effective selling cost was about 5.3% all in.
Last year I must have sold (20) $20 double eagles on e-bay. I was receiving a $20 max final selling fee. I believe 1 was returned? Using the numbers ...lets say I was paying $60 (Paypal & shipping) + $20 FVF = $80 total cost of selling. Sure, I took 1 back so my effective selling cost was about 5.3% all in.
Why do you assume that your return rate mimics mine?
Folks get finicky when laying 2 large on the the table.
With each sales prevention move initiated by Ebay, Paypal and the tax man, more high value coins will come out of Ebay inventory. That does not matter of course to the seller of lower prices merchandise, but one cannot ignore the trend.
Neither of us can fix any of that, but pretending that the costs are not meaningful is disingenuous.
@Coinstartled said:
Why do you assume that your return rate mimics mine?
Folks get finicky when laying 2 large on the the table.
With each sales prevention move initiated by Ebay, Paypal and the tax man, more high value coins will come out of Ebay inventory. That does not matter of course to the seller of lower prices merchandise, but one cannot ignore the trend.
Neither of us can fix any of that, but pretending that the costs are not meaningful is disingenuous.
Your return rate is not 100% either. Use your actual return rate. It is disingenuous to pretend you have a 100% return rate.
In my experience, I get more returns on inexpensive material. But use your numbers. How many returns last year out of how many items?
Compared to all the other costs you listed, which I agree with, this one is so minuscule as to be ignored. Unless you have a real problem (10% return rate), it is CENTS on the cost of $1000 items.
Appreciate your soothing words as to why it is a non issue, buts lets go back a few years and just talk about Paypal and not Ebay.
I was grandfathered in at 2.2% for a decade. didn't have to worry about a higher rate if volume fell off for a month. Rate was consistent at $22 on a two thousand dollar sale. Now it is $29 on a two thousand dollar sale. You mentined in a debat with EOC that it was worth a gold flip for $6, so there you are.
Next up was the Paypal Echeck which carried a a $5 fee regardless of the transfer amount. Each month i would get paid via that method and put an extra hundred bucks in my pocket on a large dollar sale. That was eliminated by Paypal and every transaction carries the 2.9% fee.
Sort of getting back to Ebay for a moment, one could sell a coin on Ebay and accept a check or money order as payment, One had to use caution and i never got burned, but again it added to the profit on a low margin, higher end PCGS graded coin.
So when does the frog say no mas, grab his suntan lotion and exit the steaming pot?
I expect the Ebay bankruptcy to occur in early 2022. Spinning off paypal will be half the reason. The taxation of course was beyond their control.
@Coinstartled said:
It is the boiling frog argument. JM.
Or should I say...THE BOILING FROG ARGUMENT?
Appreciate your soothing words as to why it is a non issue, buts lets go back a few years and just talk about Paypal and not Ebay.
I was grandfathered in at 2.2% for a decade. didn't have to worry about a higher rate if volume fell off for a month. Rate was consistent at $22 on a two thousand dollar sale. Now it is $29 on a two thousand dollar sale. You mentined in a debat with EOC that it was worth a gold flip for $6, so there you are.
Next up was the Paypal Echeck which carried a a $5 fee regardless of the transfer amount. Each month i would get paid via that method and put an extra hundred bucks in my pocket on a large dollar sale. That was eliminated by Paypal and every transaction carries the 2.9% fee.
Sort of getting back to Ebay for a moment, one could sell a coin on Ebay and accept a check or money order as payment, One had to use caution and i never got burned, but again it added to the profit on a low margin, higher end PCGS graded coin.
So when does the frog say no mas, grab his suntan lotion and exit the steaming pot?
I expect the Ebay bankruptcy to occur in early 2022. Spinning off paypal will be half the reason. The taxation of course was beyond their control.
I agreed with you about the global challenge. But all of the fees you mention are SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER than this miniscule PayPal change which amounts to less than 0.01% [using my numbers]
We've got you down for Early 2022. It's nice that you've even shortened your original 36 month estimate. What are we down to, about 30 months?
Feel free to exit the steaming pot. The rest of us will stay until we can't make money.
The thing that gripes me the most is the occasional ebayer that will buy something, pay for it, and then immediately request to cancel an order. I've had that happen a couple of times in last couple of months.
So ya thing ebay will allow a seller to back out the Paypal charge in that situation? Probably not!
Ebay will do everything they can P*ss people off at Paypal so they will move to their payment processor...Rinse and Repeat!
@amwldcoin said:
The thing that gripes me the most is the occasional ebayer that will buy something, pay for it, and then immediately request to cancel an order. I've had that happen a couple of times in last couple of months.
So ya thing ebay will allow a seller to back out the Paypal charge in that situation? Probably not!
Ebay will do everything they can P*ss people off at Paypal so they will move to their payment processor...Rinse and Repeat!
That has ALWAYS been a pet peeve of mine. Because - at the risk of getting @coinstartled going again - PayPal has always been keeping part of the fee on the return. They used to refund the 2.9% but keep the $0.30. So, on a $10 item, they were always keeping half the fee.
This is why you should never look at just a single transaction. I sell a LOT of $5 to $10 items. A return is automatically more than the item is worth just based on postage even in a single direction. The $0.30 PayPal keeps is sometimes enough to tip the scales. [Yes, believe it or not, I sell items that make me a net of $1 or sometimes less.]
But, again, I only get 1 in 500 returns.
The other thing is insurance. I don't insure any package under about $500. Why? Because the Post Office loses less than 1 in a $1000 of them and it would be silly to pay for insurance. But, every now and then, I have to eat the $200 that I refunded. Now, I could go all CoinStartled and curse the heavens and the Post Office and be mad at eBay and PayPal...but it's just the cost of doing business. And $200 paid out over 1000 (or more) packages is 20 cents per package.
@coinpalice said:
this is going to cost high volume sellers like apmex a lot of money, a return of a pre-33 $20 gold will cost them 45 dollars, they probably average 1 percent in returns. a return will put the sale in the red
Many / most hi volume & hi dollar sellers are quickly being invited into feepay's managed payments thru Adyen, and my guess is that their fees are being massaged so that the green eyeshade folks can know how big of a hammer can be put down on the smaller unwanted sellers next year and in 2021 when the transition to managed payments is supposed to be completed.
Take notice that most of the diamond & titanium level sellers no longer mention PP
I was chatting with a fellow I've bought a few coins from who runs an eBay store focusing on $100-$500 coins. He told me his return rate is 1.5% and he feels that is lower than the norm given the quality of his photography. He mentioned the move by PayPal to start keeping their cut is not catastrophic for him, but it is starting to feel like death by a thousand cuts, and that the constant pressure on his margins will likely drive him off eBay at some point in the near future.
He believes that the buyer should pick up the fee, not the seller, and I would agree.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@DelawareDoons said:
I was chatting with a fellow I've bought a few coins from who runs an eBay store focusing on $100-$500 coins. He told me his return rate is 1.5% and he feels that is lower than the norm given the quality of his photography. He mentioned the move by PayPal to start keeping their cut is not catastrophic for him, but it is starting to feel like death by a thousand cuts, and that the constant pressure on his margins will likely drive him off eBay at some point in the near future.
He believes that the buyer should pick up the fee, not the seller, and I would agree.
I think a lot of buyers will be implementing restock fees.
@DelawareDoons said:
I was chatting with a fellow I've bought a few coins from who runs an eBay store focusing on $100-$500 coins. He told me his return rate is 1.5% and he feels that is lower than the norm given the quality of his photography. He mentioned the move by PayPal to start keeping their cut is not catastrophic for him, but it is starting to feel like death by a thousand cuts, and that the constant pressure on his margins will likely drive him off eBay at some point in the near future.
He believes that the buyer should pick up the fee, not the seller, and I would agree.
I think a lot of buyers will be implementing restock fees.
I do not believe eBay allows restocking fees any longer. Not a good sign for small businesses operating there.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@DelawareDoons said:
I was chatting with a fellow I've bought a few coins from who runs an eBay store focusing on $100-$500 coins. He told me his return rate is 1.5% and he feels that is lower than the norm given the quality of his photography. He mentioned the move by PayPal to start keeping their cut is not catastrophic for him, but it is starting to feel like death by a thousand cuts, and that the constant pressure on his margins will likely drive him off eBay at some point in the near future.
He believes that the buyer should pick up the fee, not the seller, and I would agree.
I think a lot of buyers will be implementing restock fees.
I do not believe eBay allows restocking fees any longer. Not a good sign for small businesses operating there.
When Ebay was a viable marketplace for quality PCGS graded coins, I recall Ebay boasting of a successful 4th quarter and thanking the Ebay sellers for keeping the shelves stocked for them.
Unlike Amazon, Ebay is 100% dependent on outside vendors to provide competitive merchandise as well as exemplary customer service. They pretty much have that golden egg, but when it comes time to share the pie, the Ebay and paypal slices keep getting larger.
Unless a business works for all involved, from the consumer on up to the CEO, it will fail.
@DelawareDoons said:
I was chatting with a fellow I've bought a few coins from who runs an eBay store focusing on $100-$500 coins. He told me his return rate is 1.5% and he feels that is lower than the norm given the quality of his photography. He mentioned the move by PayPal to start keeping their cut is not catastrophic for him, but it is starting to feel like death by a thousand cuts, and that the constant pressure on his margins will likely drive him off eBay at some point in the near future.
He believes that the buyer should pick up the fee, not the seller, and I would agree.
I think a lot of buyers will be implementing restock fees.
I do not believe eBay allows restocking fees any longer. Not a good sign for small businesses operating there.
They do if you don't accept returns. If you accept free returns, then yes, you just have to take them and refund the money. But I, on the other hand, don't offer official returns. I do accept returns if you email me, but officially, my listings are "no returns offered." With that, I'm allowed to dictate whatever policy I want, which can include a restocking fee. Yes, a buyer can claim SNAD to get around this, but I will note that it's pretty uncommon and when a bogus one has been claimed, I've had very good luck getting eBay to side with me. It may be that I do enough volume that I'm granted extra favors or I just can talk to a help desk that can better understand my point, but I face very few issues handling unjustified SNADs.
@Coinstartled - do you currently sell on eBay and is it relatively small or large amount? It's difficult to tell for sure, but it seems that you no longer do or only do a little, and are bitter that is a much less attractive selling venue for you.
king fees any longer. Not a good sign for small businesses operating there.
When Ebay was a viable marketplace for quality PCGS graded coins, I recall Ebay boasting of a successful 4th quarter and thanking the Ebay sellers for keeping the shelves stocked for them.
Unlike Amazon, Ebay is 100% dependent on outside vendors to provide competitive merchandise as well as exemplary customer service. They pretty much have that golden egg, but when it comes time to share the pie, the Ebay and paypal slices keep getting larger.
Unless a business works for all involved, from the consumer on up to the CEO, it will fail.
The part you don't seem to embrace is that eBay could have ZERO coin business and still be viable. Coins have thinner margins than just about any product. I'm sure the very reasonable 10-15% fees for retail goods are considered just fine for sellers of pots, kettles, books, diapers and a million items that make up the other 98.5% of eBay's business.
@Davideo said: @Coinstartled - do you currently sell on eBay and is it relatively small or large amount? It's difficult to tell for sure, but it seems that you no longer do or only do a little, and are bitter that is a much less attractive selling venue for you.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Coinstartled also fails to realize that eBay is a very inexpensive ADVERTISING venue that works fantastic.
I didn't fall off the hay wagon yesterday. Began selling on the site in 2002. Got to near the Titanium level and was invited to attend an Ebay event in DC at their expense.
Notice today if you will, that a ton of fakes are reported regularly on the site. On the flip side 200-300 higher dollar PCGS and NGC coins with no reserve would end each Sunday night. Now it is a trickle.
Yes...I get that sellers use Ebay to draw buyers to their site and offer a lower price when they do, and that seems to be with the blessing of Ebay. As a stand alone though, Ebay has spit the proverbial bit and will not survive the imposed sales tax requirements as Amazon has so deftly done.
I sell my $2000 coins from my table at shows as these generally really tight margin. Not for online store....which is mainly for 40-100 pct markup material. eBay is variable rate sell exp vs fixed cost of show.
The bigger ticket the coin the bigger risk or hit on a return.
Looks like PayPal does not want it to be their problem if buyer backs out.
@Coinstartled said:
No doubt the lucky shareholders are celebrating their fortune today!
KInd of like the Amazon shareholders?
Waiting for the bankruptcy date prediction for them ?
Bezos is brilliant. He is the Sam Walton to K-mart's rotating CEO of the month.
Don't like many of his expansion tactics and one can argue that the stock is grossly overpriced, but his game plan is sound and he has added vale to the retail market rather than take it away.
@amwldcoin said:
I figure it will take a lawsuit which ebay will fight to death but they would loose. I lost many sales from people who refuse to use Paypal thanks to ebay requiring instant payment.
last time i checked, there is an option within ebay to specify whether you require instant payment or not, at least on BIN. hope it helps.
.
@amwldcoin said:
Luckily many of those who wanted to buy with a Money Order understood google is your friend AmeriWorld Coins!
+1
good thing we get buyers contact info, even before they pay via ebay transaction details and maybe even 1 other way but ive done similar things as you are mentioning to circumnavigate unnecessary restrictions in their modus operandi.
.
@jmlanzaf said:
The sales tax issue is a much bigger headwind.
much, i agree. it can force more sales from ebay to B&M, emails, sites etc where a lot of sellers are exempt by business filing or state laws prohibition on taxing most if not all numismatics. i sure hope ebay really fought hard as they seemed to in the prevention of the internet sales tax. will it last, time will tell.
i appreciate those here that have done the calculations about the non-refund of pp fees for returns, if i understand that correctly, it does represent a pittance of the sales for 99% sellers. reminds of the hype about 30, 60 day returns etc. which i can honestly say has effected me 0%, though i initially had some concerns.
do a good job, don't get caught up in any drama, have fun and most of these issues, minus the sales tax, is inconsequential. imo. have a good evening all.
.
@amwldcoin said:
That is not true! How about showing me where the option is when listing an item? In the past I had quite a few buyers who wanted to buy via Money Order...the problem was ebay required immediate payment even though I don't require that in my listings.
another option is to print the ship label, unless you do it via pp or post office or another and then mark payment as received and communicate with the buyer carefully within the ebay message system or use the email that you get for the buyer once they initiate a transaction. one can save years worth of emails/phones via ebay and pp along with buyers ids. a bit of work but with excel tabs in a spreadsheet and data sort, it is pretty simple.
.
@amwldcoin said:
That is not true! How about showing me where the option is when listing an item? In the past I had quite a few buyers who wanted to buy via Money Order...the problem was ebay required immediate payment even though I don't require that in my listings.
another option is to print the ship label, unless you do it via pp or post office or another and then mark payment as received and communicate with the buyer carefully within the ebay message system or use the email that you get for the buyer once they initiate a transaction. one can save years worth of emails/phones via ebay and pp along with buyers ids. a bit of work but with excel tabs in a spreadsheet and data sort, it is pretty simple.
.
I occasionally have a buyer who requests to not use PayPal. It's usually a stamp buyer, those good folks are 95 years old and don't use PayPal. LOL. I've done it with no difficulty
@airplanenut said:
It may be that I do enough volume that I'm granted extra favors or I just can talk to a help desk that can better understand my point, but I face very few issues handling unjustified SNADs.
Consider yourself fortunate. The last buyer who claimed "SNAD" on one of my items admitted (through the eBay message system) that he used that option specifically so that I would have to pay the return postage. The eBay rep I talked to agreed with me that the claim was not really a SNAD claim, but told me I would have to pay the return postage anyway.
@santinidollar said:
All that PayPal cares about is their rock n roll stock price. Over $100 a share.
That's kind of the only thing they SHOULD care about.
Part of what drives stock price is fostering of customers. They won't do anything that drives away users. If you keep that in mind, you can see why this has zero impact on PayPal itself:
Users (buyers) don't see any change in what they pay, since they don't pay anything.
Users (sellers) are not going to leave over a few cents per transaction, especially if they are already paying those few cents for credit card transactions.
All this bluster about money orders, checks etc. overlooks the down-side to those methods as well. Bounce a check or two and it costs you as much or more than this transaction cost. And you also will lose business from people who like PayPal/credit cards for convenience.
@santinidollar said:
All that PayPal cares about is their rock n roll stock price. Over $100 a share.
That's kind of the only thing they SHOULD care about.
Part of what drives stock price is fostering of customers. They won't do anything that drives away users. If you keep that in mind, you can see why this has zero impact on PayPal itself:
Users (buyers) don't see any change in what they pay, since they don't pay anything.
Users (sellers) are not going to leave over a few cents per transaction, especially if they are already paying those few cents for credit card transactions.
All this bluster about money orders, checks etc. overlooks the down-side to those methods as well. Bounce a check or two and it costs you as much or more than this transaction cost. And you also will lose business from people who like PayPal/credit cards for convenience.
Well in the case of the buyer, they are getting hit with a sales tax that either entices them to buy elsewhere or demand a lesser price. I figure that taxes are pretty much an even split. half absorbed by the seller the half by the buyer.
Sellers leaving are marginal with each incremental hit that they have to absorb. Those that are now losing money will leave, those on the cusp of profitability, well some will hang in there but some will depart.
The forum population includes many ex Ebay sellers.
@amwldcoin said:
I figure it will take a lawsuit which ebay will fight to death but they would loose. I lost many sales from people who refuse to use Paypal thanks to ebay requiring instant payment.
last time i checked, there is an option within ebay to specify whether you require instant payment or not, at least on BIN. hope it helps.
.
Comments
So how much does it really cost a credit card company to process a transaction? I would wager a bare bones operation with no guarantees,cash back, etc. it would be less than a tenth of a percent! You have to think big with the millions of dollars of transactions they do daily!
That's faulty math. My returns run about 1 in 500 coins. Your $88 whack needs to be distributed over 500 coins. In other words, the new policy adds SEVENTEEN CENTS to the price of your coin.
I can only speak from my experience.
Last year I must have sold (20) $20 double eagles on e-bay. I was receiving a $20 max final selling fee. I believe 1 was returned? Using the numbers ...lets say I was paying $60 (Paypal & shipping) + $20 FVF = $80 total cost of selling. Sure, I took 1 back so my effective selling cost was about 5.3% all in.
That's what I need - some $20 max fee offers!
Why do you assume that your return rate mimics mine?
Folks get finicky when laying 2 large on the the table.
With each sales prevention move initiated by Ebay, Paypal and the tax man, more high value coins will come out of Ebay inventory. That does not matter of course to the seller of lower prices merchandise, but one cannot ignore the trend.
Neither of us can fix any of that, but pretending that the costs are not meaningful is disingenuous.
And the locked caps are irritating. I can see what you are writing with or without the dollar store readers.
Your return rate is not 100% either. Use your actual return rate. It is disingenuous to pretend you have a 100% return rate.
In my experience, I get more returns on inexpensive material. But use your numbers. How many returns last year out of how many items?
Compared to all the other costs you listed, which I agree with, this one is so minuscule as to be ignored. Unless you have a real problem (10% return rate), it is CENTS on the cost of $1000 items.
It is the boiling frog argument. JM.
Or should I say...THE BOILING FROG ARGUMENT?
Appreciate your soothing words as to why it is a non issue, buts lets go back a few years and just talk about Paypal and not Ebay.
I was grandfathered in at 2.2% for a decade. didn't have to worry about a higher rate if volume fell off for a month. Rate was consistent at $22 on a two thousand dollar sale. Now it is $29 on a two thousand dollar sale. You mentined in a debat with EOC that it was worth a gold flip for $6, so there you are.
Next up was the Paypal Echeck which carried a a $5 fee regardless of the transfer amount. Each month i would get paid via that method and put an extra hundred bucks in my pocket on a large dollar sale. That was eliminated by Paypal and every transaction carries the 2.9% fee.
Sort of getting back to Ebay for a moment, one could sell a coin on Ebay and accept a check or money order as payment, One had to use caution and i never got burned, but again it added to the profit on a low margin, higher end PCGS graded coin.
So when does the frog say no mas, grab his suntan lotion and exit the steaming pot?
I expect the Ebay bankruptcy to occur in early 2022. Spinning off paypal will be half the reason. The taxation of course was beyond their control.
I agreed with you about the global challenge. But all of the fees you mention are SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER than this miniscule PayPal change which amounts to less than 0.01% [using my numbers]
We've got you down for Early 2022. It's nice that you've even shortened your original 36 month estimate. What are we down to, about 30 months?
Feel free to exit the steaming pot. The rest of us will stay until we can't make money.
The thing that gripes me the most is the occasional ebayer that will buy something, pay for it, and then immediately request to cancel an order. I've had that happen a couple of times in last couple of months.
So ya thing ebay will allow a seller to back out the Paypal charge in that situation? Probably not!
Ebay will do everything they can P*ss people off at Paypal so they will move to their payment processor...Rinse and Repeat!
That has ALWAYS been a pet peeve of mine. Because - at the risk of getting @coinstartled going again - PayPal has always been keeping part of the fee on the return. They used to refund the 2.9% but keep the $0.30. So, on a $10 item, they were always keeping half the fee.
This is why you should never look at just a single transaction. I sell a LOT of $5 to $10 items. A return is automatically more than the item is worth just based on postage even in a single direction. The $0.30 PayPal keeps is sometimes enough to tip the scales. [Yes, believe it or not, I sell items that make me a net of $1 or sometimes less.]
But, again, I only get 1 in 500 returns.
The other thing is insurance. I don't insure any package under about $500. Why? Because the Post Office loses less than 1 in a $1000 of them and it would be silly to pay for insurance. But, every now and then, I have to eat the $200 that I refunded. Now, I could go all CoinStartled and curse the heavens and the Post Office and be mad at eBay and PayPal...but it's just the cost of doing business. And $200 paid out over 1000 (or more) packages is 20 cents per package.
Elon has to fund SpaceX somehow.
Collector, occasional seller
Shucks...a nasty little 8% price decline by Ebay after the earnings release.
Can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Many / most hi volume & hi dollar sellers are quickly being invited into feepay's managed payments thru Adyen, and my guess is that their fees are being massaged so that the green eyeshade folks can know how big of a hammer can be put down on the smaller unwanted sellers next year and in 2021 when the transition to managed payments is supposed to be completed.
Take notice that most of the diamond & titanium level sellers no longer mention PP
Coinstartled will NOT take my bet.
EBay will be around for a very long time.
So, did you cover you short on eBay?
The kayak would be of little value in the Sonoran desert.
You could always sell it on eBay.
After fees I would be under water.
But the eBay Bonus Bucks always float my boat.
But after fees, I would be above water.
Learn how to run a business in the black.
Black Water
This discussion never gets old.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Without taking sides, after the decline, the stock is only up 27% for the year.
Shhhh...you can't fool @Coinstartled. He's not one of those people.
He has called his shot: bankrupt by Spring 2022! I have a feeling I'm going to really enjoy the Summer of 2022.
No doubt the lucky shareholders are celebrating their fortune today!
I was chatting with a fellow I've bought a few coins from who runs an eBay store focusing on $100-$500 coins. He told me his return rate is 1.5% and he feels that is lower than the norm given the quality of his photography. He mentioned the move by PayPal to start keeping their cut is not catastrophic for him, but it is starting to feel like death by a thousand cuts, and that the constant pressure on his margins will likely drive him off eBay at some point in the near future.
He believes that the buyer should pick up the fee, not the seller, and I would agree.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I think a lot of buyers will be implementing restock fees.
I do not believe eBay allows restocking fees any longer. Not a good sign for small businesses operating there.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
When Ebay was a viable marketplace for quality PCGS graded coins, I recall Ebay boasting of a successful 4th quarter and thanking the Ebay sellers for keeping the shelves stocked for them.
Unlike Amazon, Ebay is 100% dependent on outside vendors to provide competitive merchandise as well as exemplary customer service. They pretty much have that golden egg, but when it comes time to share the pie, the Ebay and paypal slices keep getting larger.
Unless a business works for all involved, from the consumer on up to the CEO, it will fail.
They do if you don't accept returns. If you accept free returns, then yes, you just have to take them and refund the money. But I, on the other hand, don't offer official returns. I do accept returns if you email me, but officially, my listings are "no returns offered." With that, I'm allowed to dictate whatever policy I want, which can include a restocking fee. Yes, a buyer can claim SNAD to get around this, but I will note that it's pretty uncommon and when a bogus one has been claimed, I've had very good luck getting eBay to side with me. It may be that I do enough volume that I'm granted extra favors or I just can talk to a help desk that can better understand my point, but I face very few issues handling unjustified SNADs.
@Coinstartled - do you currently sell on eBay and is it relatively small or large amount? It's difficult to tell for sure, but it seems that you no longer do or only do a little, and are bitter that is a much less attractive selling venue for you.
king fees any longer. Not a good sign for small businesses operating there.
The part you don't seem to embrace is that eBay could have ZERO coin business and still be viable. Coins have thinner margins than just about any product. I'm sure the very reasonable 10-15% fees for retail goods are considered just fine for sellers of pots, kettles, books, diapers and a million items that make up the other 98.5% of eBay's business.
Coinstartled also fails to realize that eBay is a very inexpensive ADVERTISING venue that works fantastic.
I will send you a PM.
I didn't fall off the hay wagon yesterday. Began selling on the site in 2002. Got to near the Titanium level and was invited to attend an Ebay event in DC at their expense.
Notice today if you will, that a ton of fakes are reported regularly on the site. On the flip side 200-300 higher dollar PCGS and NGC coins with no reserve would end each Sunday night. Now it is a trickle.
Yes...I get that sellers use Ebay to draw buyers to their site and offer a lower price when they do, and that seems to be with the blessing of Ebay. As a stand alone though, Ebay has spit the proverbial bit and will not survive the imposed sales tax requirements as Amazon has so deftly done.
I sell my $2000 coins from my table at shows as these generally really tight margin. Not for online store....which is mainly for 40-100 pct markup material. eBay is variable rate sell exp vs fixed cost of show.
The bigger ticket the coin the bigger risk or hit on a return.
Looks like PayPal does not want it to be their problem if buyer backs out.
Business as usual. Mind your business. This goes back to our roots (in coinage).
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
KInd of like the Amazon shareholders?
Waiting for the bankruptcy date prediction for them ?
Bezos is brilliant. He is the Sam Walton to K-mart's rotating CEO of the month.
Don't like many of his expansion tactics and one can argue that the stock is grossly overpriced, but his game plan is sound and he has added vale to the retail market rather than take it away.
last time i checked, there is an option within ebay to specify whether you require instant payment or not, at least on BIN. hope it helps.
.
+1
good thing we get buyers contact info, even before they pay via ebay transaction details and maybe even 1 other way but ive done similar things as you are mentioning to circumnavigate unnecessary restrictions in their modus operandi.
.
much, i agree. it can force more sales from ebay to B&M, emails, sites etc where a lot of sellers are exempt by business filing or state laws prohibition on taxing most if not all numismatics. i sure hope ebay really fought hard as they seemed to in the prevention of the internet sales tax. will it last, time will tell.
i appreciate those here that have done the calculations about the non-refund of pp fees for returns, if i understand that correctly, it does represent a pittance of the sales for 99% sellers. reminds of the hype about 30, 60 day returns etc. which i can honestly say has effected me 0%, though i initially had some concerns.
do a good job, don't get caught up in any drama, have fun and most of these issues, minus the sales tax, is inconsequential. imo. have a good evening all.
.
another option is to print the ship label, unless you do it via pp or post office or another and then mark payment as received and communicate with the buyer carefully within the ebay message system or use the email that you get for the buyer once they initiate a transaction. one can save years worth of emails/phones via ebay and pp along with buyers ids. a bit of work but with excel tabs in a spreadsheet and data sort, it is pretty simple.
.
I occasionally have a buyer who requests to not use PayPal. It's usually a stamp buyer, those good folks are 95 years old and don't use PayPal. LOL. I've done it with no difficulty
All that PayPal cares about is their rock n roll stock price. Over $100 a share.
Consider yourself fortunate. The last buyer who claimed "SNAD" on one of my items admitted (through the eBay message system) that he used that option specifically so that I would have to pay the return postage. The eBay rep I talked to agreed with me that the claim was not really a SNAD claim, but told me I would have to pay the return postage anyway.
That's kind of the only thing they SHOULD care about.
Part of what drives stock price is fostering of customers. They won't do anything that drives away users. If you keep that in mind, you can see why this has zero impact on PayPal itself:
All this bluster about money orders, checks etc. overlooks the down-side to those methods as well. Bounce a check or two and it costs you as much or more than this transaction cost. And you also will lose business from people who like PayPal/credit cards for convenience.
Well in the case of the buyer, they are getting hit with a sales tax that either entices them to buy elsewhere or demand a lesser price. I figure that taxes are pretty much an even split. half absorbed by the seller the half by the buyer.
Sellers leaving are marginal with each incremental hit that they have to absorb. Those that are now losing money will leave, those on the cusp of profitability, well some will hang in there but some will depart.
The forum population includes many ex Ebay sellers.
I have everything set to not require instant payment. It seems only older ebayers are grandfathered in to not having to pay instantly.