I just did a quick search on chopmarked gold coins and found practically nothing except for a few much older Asian pieces. Found no other example of a chopped $20.
And I just did a quick search on chop marks in the first decade of the 20th century. The numbers of pieces appears to be a tiny fraction of those from the 19th century. And pretty much limited to Philippine, Japanese, and Chinese pieces.
It's not like they're asking a huge premium. And I love the idea of a chopped $20.
Maybe if it was in a PCGS slab with the chop designation.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
I think if chops on a twenty were special, it would be a simple matter for someone to start 'chopping' twenties.
It would have no appeal to me what so ever.
@messydesk said:
Interesting, but not something I'd want to pay more than melt for.
I'd pay a little over melt for the novelty. Looks too perfectly placed and oriented. Good luck getting it certified as authentic. 1902 is probably a little late for a chop.
I’ve never been sure how any of these can be judged authentic, unless they have super old toning and the chop is properly toned in. For the majority of cleaned or dipped pieces, it seems too easy to just bang a chop into one. The scandal with the fake regulated gold a couple years back seems harder to accomplish.
I've seen another later-date $20 Lib with a similar, but much more well-defined, example of this six-petaled rosette (for lack of a better term) countermark. I'm very hesitant to call it a chop mark, given that it is not distinctly Chinese in design and on a gold host. More likely American/European countermark in my opinion.
There are a small handful of chopmarked gold pieces, where the marks themselves are distinct Chinese characters. The Rose collection had a $20 Lib with two multi-character assay marks, and Heritage offered a $5 Lib with a mark that translated as 'kwei' (cinnamon) several years ago for strong money.
Personally, I am highly suspect of all gold with marks that claim to be chops. Silver was the overwhelming standard, documentation of circulating gold is virtually nonexistent. Here's another $20 marketed as 'chopmarked' that is likely not authentic:
@scubafuel said:
Anyone have any pics of the period chop punches themselves? Seems like an item that wouldn’t just be discarded.
The numismatic community seems to be in agreement that none exists. Likely the victims of the mass melting and smelting of everything iron and steel during Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward.
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
I took a long, hard look at that when it appeared on eBay. As has been pointed out here, Asian chopmarks do exist on gold coins, but I just can't convince myself that this one is Asian.
The OP coin is damaged with a non-historical mark and worth about melt. The eBay listing is very wishful thinking.
Here's a gold coin with authentic Chinese chopmarks. Coincidentally I picked this up on eBay just last week.
These Japanese Koban are the only legitimate gold coins I know of with Chinese chopmarks. Whey they were chopped, when the Chinese only dealt in silver, is a mystery.
Comments
Interesting, but not something I'd want to pay more than melt for.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Sure enough. Thanks for sharing!
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I mean.
I just did a quick search on chopmarked gold coins and found practically nothing except for a few much older Asian pieces. Found no other example of a chopped $20.
And I just did a quick search on chop marks in the first decade of the 20th century. The numbers of pieces appears to be a tiny fraction of those from the 19th century. And pretty much limited to Philippine, Japanese, and Chinese pieces.
It's not like they're asking a huge premium. And I love the idea of a chopped $20.
Maybe if it was in a PCGS slab with the chop designation.
--Severian the Lame
I think if chops on a twenty were special, it would be a simple matter for someone to start 'chopping' twenties.
It would have no appeal to me what so ever.
I'd pay a little over melt for the novelty. Looks too perfectly placed and oriented. Good luck getting it certified as authentic. 1902 is probably a little late for a chop.
Other chopped gold should turn up soon enough.
I’ve never been sure how any of these can be judged authentic, unless they have super old toning and the chop is properly toned in. For the majority of cleaned or dipped pieces, it seems too easy to just bang a chop into one. The scandal with the fake regulated gold a couple years back seems harder to accomplish.
I've seen another later-date $20 Lib with a similar, but much more well-defined, example of this six-petaled rosette (for lack of a better term) countermark. I'm very hesitant to call it a chop mark, given that it is not distinctly Chinese in design and on a gold host. More likely American/European countermark in my opinion.
There are a small handful of chopmarked gold pieces, where the marks themselves are distinct Chinese characters. The Rose collection had a $20 Lib with two multi-character assay marks, and Heritage offered a $5 Lib with a mark that translated as 'kwei' (cinnamon) several years ago for strong money.
Personally, I am highly suspect of all gold with marks that claim to be chops. Silver was the overwhelming standard, documentation of circulating gold is virtually nonexistent. Here's another $20 marketed as 'chopmarked' that is likely not authentic:
Anyone have any pics of the period chop punches themselves? Seems like an item that wouldn’t just be discarded.
Edit: strike that, looks like this question has its own thread now.
The numismatic community seems to be in agreement that none exists. Likely the victims of the mass melting and smelting of everything iron and steel during Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward.
--Severian the Lame
Chop marked coins have always interested me... I have not seen any gold coins with chops before.....I would question authenticity....Cheers, RickO
I'm in the questionable authenticity camp.
I took a long, hard look at that when it appeared on eBay. As has been pointed out here, Asian chopmarks do exist on gold coins, but I just can't convince myself that this one is Asian.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
I think the shipping is a bit expensive. jmo & fwiw
That's about the cost of registered mail. In fact, a $2000 package would be slightly over $20
The OP coin is damaged with a non-historical mark and worth about melt. The eBay listing is very wishful thinking.
Here's a gold coin with authentic Chinese chopmarks. Coincidentally I picked this up on eBay just last week.
These Japanese Koban are the only legitimate gold coins I know of with Chinese chopmarks. Whey they were chopped, when the Chinese only dealt in silver, is a mystery.