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Question about Trade Dollar Chop Marks

MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

There is obviously a multitude of different chop marks on Trade Dollars. Has anyone ever seen, or own, one of the punches used to make the chop marks?

Comments

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have not...though the question has been asked here before. I do not recall seeing an answer of substance though. Cheers, RickO

  • ChopmarkedTradesChopmarkedTrades Posts: 495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019 7:47PM

    None of the tools are known to exist by the collecting community today; it's been theorized that after their purpose was largely done away with following the introduction of legislation against private silver ownership, most fell victim to scrap campaigns.

    A pair of later-date tools, bearing the name of the merchant Yon Kim Hong in both Chinese and Thai script, made their way into the possession of American dealer Hans Schulman sometime in the middle of the 20th century. He proceeded to apply marks to hundreds of different coins, including many unusual types, creating his own 'rarities'. Today, these are easily spotted due to the uniform nature of the chops and their consistent application style, and often bring premiums over genuine chopmarked coins (there are specialty collectors for Schulman chops, but I suspect many still pass as genuine). Below is an example of one of the two chop designs Schulman used. The location of these tools today is unknown.

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have much to add to the above post, but suspect that during the "Great Leap Forward", when the government had the populace set up backyard smelters to melt any steel/iron they could find, that nearly all the surviving chop punches wound up in the melting crucible.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the info.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Chopmarks were placed on coins for over two centuries, with many thousands of different punches used. I’m still in disbelief that not a single punch has ever surfaced. It’s a real mystery.

  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good info provided by Chopmarked Trades.

    And I agree with Dan, it's a mystery why not a single punch has ever surfaced. It may be that nobody is really looking for them. I don't know of anyone who has gone to China and searched.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChopmarkedTrades said:
    None of the tools are known to exist by the collecting community today; it's been theorized that after their purpose was largely done away with following the introduction of legislation against private silver ownership, most fell victim to scrap campaigns.

    A pair of later-date tools, bearing the name of the merchant Yon Kim Hong in both Chinese and Thai script, made their way into the possession of American dealer Hans Schulman sometime in the middle of the 20th century. He proceeded to apply marks to hundreds of different coins, including many unusual types, creating his own 'rarities'. Today, these are easily spotted due to the uniform nature of the chops and their consistent application style, and often bring premiums over genuine chopmarked coins (there are specialty collectors for Schulman chops, but I suspect many still pass as genuine). Below is an example of one of the two chop designs Schulman used. The location of these tools today is unknown.

    So, I guess this proves we should all behave as there is no telling all the additional dirt on us that will come out after our death.

    Just to clear my o:) record ahead of time, I was accused of selling a counterfeit Saudi 4P Disc to a dealer by "Ol' Cracked Eye" the infamous authentication "Ex-Pert" of the day back then. LOL, I've also been accused of being a "Know-it-All" several times in my past. :( Most recently on CU. :'(

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DDR said:
    It may be that nobody is really looking for them. I don't know of anyone who has gone to China and searched.

    This is my guess...

    I doubt there are people in China searching for them.

    Another question....how many antique American counterstamp punches exist? I know that a few do, but most are lost to history.

    I would expect the attrition rate to be greater in China considering what they went through in the 20th century. People were being eliminated for having the wrong ideas, so a merchant's punch might have been quickly discarded. Not to mention the demand for raw materials for militarization and modernization.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think a concerted effort, possibly introduced and pushed by a prominent TPG....could produce some results. Of course, a large search, along with publicity, will also bring out the fakes... :( Cheers, RickO

  • TradesWithChopsTradesWithChops Posts: 640 ✭✭✭✭

    Keep the questions coming!

    I concur, obviously, with the above statements

    Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
    More Than It's Chopped Up To Be

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The problem is that if you went to China and started asking around about antique chopmark punches, any number of people would make one for you. ;)

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    The problem is that if you went to China and started asking around about antique chopmark punches, any number of people would make one for you. ;)

    Why go to china. I'll bet you could 3-D print tools for all sorts of different chops. I remember the two times I saw dealers who had piles of dirty, chopped Trade $ in their case for around $60 your pick. Eventually, any chopped coin that can't be traced back to the 1980's will be suspect. Authenticating Chops is a wide open field and I suspect an extremely small number of folks are very good at it.

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