Major headache for Ebay snipers and last second bidders
mbogoman
Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
Last night I had my Gixen snipe bid set at $1188 for an item whose current bid was at $923. I get up this morning and find that the item sold for $923. Huh??? I checked Gixen and there was a message for the item that said:
"eBay Trust & Safety Error Filter Id: To ensure eBay remains a safe marketplace, we want to validate your identity before you purchase this item. Thank you for your understanding."
Of course I couldn't respond, I wasn't online. Even if I was manually sniping, there wouldn't have been enough time to respond. I called Ebay to find out if there is a magic amount that triggers the "Trust and Safety" intervention, but the CS rep said there wasn't, that an algorithm determines when to send out the verification request.
Anyway, if anyone knows more about this or of a way to beat it, please let us know.
mbogoman
Asesabi Lutho
Comments
Odd - have never encountered that before. I had a Gixen snipe this week go off w/o difficulty.
What a pain in the amneris!
Kind regards,
George
I had one go off with no problems this week, too, for an item that sold for just over $800. It seems like there may be a trigger amount - maybe it's $1000 - I am only guessing. This is the first time I have run into this. It cheated the seller out of a few hundred dollars and cheated me out of the item. Even Ebay lost a few bucks in fees. I could see doing it for a new buyer, but not one with over 20 years of 100% positive feedback buying and selling...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
There are still bid auctions on Ebay? What a novelty.
I prefer the manual snipe (lots more fun)...but would definitely fail if there was a verification request...since I bid in the last 3-5 seconds. Cheers, RickO
Another reason not to run auctions on eBay.
Cheaper is better. Bet the guy bidding live is happy.
What coin was it? Also I didn't know you call Ebay!
Good reason not to snipe. LOL. I've never seen the point. If everyone has a sniping program, you're bidding at the same people anyway.
There was another thread (or even two) on this same topic. I’m not sure why eBay is doing it, but it has happened multiple times to me when manually bidding.
Those items were a bit over $1,000 so I believe that is the magic amount. Luckily my bids weren’t snipes but early on in the bidding process (they were basically better bullion items that I was just tracking).
This is not the first I've heard of this. If anyone at eBay had any brains, they'd say, "Hey, let's just change the algorithm to not do this within the last 15 minutes of an auction."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
It was a 50 oz Silver Metals International cube that went for just a little over spot. I've been looking for one for a while...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Does sniping work flawlessly in other venues, like Gavel Snipe with Heritage?
I don't know. Never tried it.
If not on eBay, where does sniping work flawlessly?
??? Have you confused me with someone else? I never said sniping worked flawlessly.
Regarding the OP's issue of sniping failing, you wrote "Another reason not to run auctions on eBay." I took this to mean that running auctions on other venues would avoid the OP's sniping issue. Is this an incorrect way to interpret your post? If not, what would running auctions on other venues solve?
Yes. I meant that the failure of sniping programs is among the reasons to not run auctions on eBay. I don't run auctions on other venues and have no opinion on their practicality for sellers who do.
Is there an alternative, including something other than auctions, that you do use and recommend for selling? Just asking to understand the alternatives.
An eBay store.
Ah, so fixed price BIN sales?
I'm pretty superstitious when it comes to Ebay auctions. I've never lost an Ebay auction when I have a mustache. It drives my wife nuts, but as long as I'm winning, the mustache stays.
Yes, that's right.
The purpose of running auctions is to attract prospective bidders who will compete via their bids for your coins. The purpose of sniping is to prevent others from competing with your bids. As a seller, what's in that for me?
I keep reading complaints about how few true auctions there are on eBay. A couple of months ago as a test, I ran 10 auctions with an opening bid of 99 cents. Based on past sales, the coins were all valued around $20 to $25. Two sold, one at the opening bid, one for $2.50. A few weeks later I put the remaining eight coins in my store, priced near what they've been selling for. Six have sold, four at the listed price and two at about 10% less through offers.
FWIW...
I disagree! Many times when I have bid early I've have seen my bid run up with multiple bids...sometimes in a period of hours by the same bidder chipping away! Sometimes it could be a shill but other times I'm certain it is not!
I think it depends on the pieces and sellers. Certain sellers have a following for their auctions and seem to get reasonably good activity. But certain things seem to be much better as BINs.
I suggest this would probably not have happened if you would have bid through Ebays bidding system??
I.E. a bidder sets his highest bid. Ebay will bid for the buyer whenever needed to trump another bid.
Also, did you actually do a test bid before you set your snipe bid.??
Just last month I used snipe to get this 1936 satin finish proof buffalo nickel for twelve dollars.
It works for me.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
I use Auctionsniper on eBay, never with any problems. My understanding is the sniper programs won’t work on Heritage, Stacks, Legend, or Great Collections. However, other than GC, with each of the others there are ways to place bids in advance to take place only when the lot is actually on the block, without those bids being activated well in advance. This way other bidders don’t have long periods of time to chop away at your maximum bid, including them taking time to think and raise their bid even more. With GC, you have to stay awake, online, and be ready to manually snipe at the very end. This is ok, except when you are someplace that you can’t get online at the right time.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I think this is happening with eBay’s bidding system but the sniping system cannot automatically handle it.
I’ve run into this once while bidding directly on eBay and lost the piece because I couldn’t bid in time.
It never happened to me. I use another sniper (free use and perfect every time)
Only lost when my bid was not high enough. Usually bid in the last 3 seconds.
and.. if I get it ok, if not, also ok..for whatever reason. then it was not meant to be.
I had a couple of times awhile back when I would go to bid and ebay will make me sign in again. Now if something is important for me I sign out and in to make sure it doesn't happen.
Exact same thing happened to me on a rare silver bar. I bid $4,000. It sold for $1,200. The seller certainly got screwed there, as the bar was worth my bid all day long.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
That's a beauty!
It is looking like $1000+ may be the trigger point. It's purely anecdotal at this point, but the three people that have chimed in (including myself) about this happening to them were all over $1000. As I said before, I had no problems with my snipe earlier last week for $818...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
There are plenty of bad buyers who bid last-minute. All the more so if they know it's the easiest way to get through the system. Don't take this as me thinking the verification (especially for established users) is a good idea. Rather, if eBay really thinks this is a good idea as implemented (and I disagree with them), then they aren't going to think your idea is a good one (because they're dumb).
If eBay really wanted to maximize bids, they should add 15 minutes to the auction every time a bid comes in and send text alerts that you were outbid. It would all but eliminate sniping and create a more normal auction experience. There's no point in sniping a Heritage or Stack's auction as they will keep taking bids for as long as it takes for the bidders to surrender.
Cant we tell Ebay WE WANT A “ DO OVER “. Cancel the winning bid and do the Auction OVER! I am sure the seller won’t mind + Ebay makes more money! Everybody is happy 😃 Except for the actual bid winner!
I use Ebay almost exclusively for buying. I use a sniper mainly for 2 reasons. Mostly for the reason BUFFNIXX stated, sometimes you can get incredible deals. Beautiful score on that 36 satin BTW. I believe that bidding on an item makes ebay's algos give that auction more attention as in "People were also interested in" or "People were also interested in" so if i want a deal on an auction I don't bid early or watch it for that matter. The other being, i forget about auctions because I'm not on ebay every day. The 24 hour reminder is somewhat useless as it is just too far from actual ending time.
When I do sell, I never put coins up for auction. I believe that because I don't sell often, my auctions don't get the promotion that heavy sellers get. I don't start auctions at what would be a fair market price because when I'm buying, I pass over auctions with high starting bids unless I really like the coin. It id a waste of time most of the time because someone out -bids me by the minimum at the last minute.
What jmlanza said would solve so many seller issues in an instant. Add 5 or 15 minutes to an auction if a bid came in during the last 5 or 15 minutes. Not that I would benefit in any way from that, quite the opposite.
Side nore, I won a woodgrain BU 1938 Lincoln for $8 last week. The seller with 7000 feedback and 99.8% sent me a VF 1938. I sent them messages 2 days in a row and waited an extra day with no contact. I then filed with ebay. They don't offer returns, now I have to wait again either for a reply or until enough days have passed for ebay to step in.
It is only an 8$ coin, I would be really upset if it were something valuable. i was prepared to pay to send it back so I could get my woody. I still would if I could. I had assumed it was an honest mistake, and would have left positive 5 star feedback. If I have to have Ebay step in, I will be left with no choice but to leave negative feedback. I hate returning coins and hate leaving negative feedback. With no communication, I feel it is my duty so that others can be aware before they buy.
http://www.silverstocker.com
Anyone can PM me Any Time about Any thing.
eBay may do this with bullion. I had a case recently, not eBay, where I had to jump through a hoop or two buying a gold coin for jewelry. I asked "want's up" and was told that bullion triggered extra security on their site.
This has happened to me, multiple times.
Gixen now provides only a limited number of free snipes per month (I believe 6). You have to pay now for additional snipes with the mirror service but it's still far less than what AuctioonSniper charges which is nuts if they still charge a full 1% of your winning bid price.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
While Auctionsniper charges 1.5% of your winning bid, the fee is capped at $15 max. Obviously, no charge for auctions when you’re not the high bidder.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
1.5%? Wow. I used to use AuctionSniper but switched to free sniping programs years ago and have saved hundreds of dollars in doing so. I can't recall the last time I had a snipe fail though I know it does happen every now and then with any sniping platform.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
True, but I think that's easier to do when all the items in a given grouping end at the same time, as they do with auction houses. The way extending an auction helps is that a bidder may place one more bid (and then maybe just one more) when they have to have something. That's much harder to do with bidders are coming from all over the world, and various sellers end their items at different times. I could see myself staying up late for one item on rare occasion, but I'm going to get annoyed (and maybe give up) if my sleep keeps getting delayed 15 minutes. As a seller, I'm going to go nuts if my auctions don't end when I expect them to and I can't start invoicing. I think the key is recognizing that eBay auctions are simply set up differently than true auction houses. Both sides have their pros and cons. Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
I haven’t bought a coin on eBay in years, but I am a reasonably active buyer of another kind of collectible on eBay. I use Auction Sniper. Periodically, Auction Sniper asks me to reverify my eBay access. Perhaps this is in lieu of the verification process mentioned by the OP? Perhaps bullion is special?
In any event, I have never run into this problem with Auction Sniper. I quoted @Edthelorax because he gave a good summary of “why snipe” from the buyers perspective. From a sellers stand point, a winning bid is by definition more than the underbid, whether placed 3 days or 3 seconds before the auction ends. I recently sniped an item and lost, but had I not bid, the underbidder would have won the item for substantially less. I “ran him up” though my intention was to win the item. I can’t fathom how sniping harms sellers.
And from what I can see, there is no good reason why someone couldn’t design a program to snipe GC auctions, though if someone did GC might take steps to stop it.
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
All third-party tools that access your eBay account have to have you reauthorize their access every once in a while as a security measure so eBay knows you're allowing them access. As another example, the software I use to list items and process orders requires the same periodic authorization step.
Meaning what, exactly?
People snipe in order to pay less than they would if bidding continued until there were no further bids.
Really? As an experienced ebay seller you should be well aware that not all listings are treated equally! You do know what "net neutrality" is don't you?