@amwldcoin said:
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
Meaning what, exactly?
I’m guessing he is referring to promoted listings and the eBay search algorithms which prioritize certain sellers over others (those that pay extra or have special deals set up). Not every item gets the same exposure.
@gypsylea said:
I can’t fathom how sniping harms sellers.
People snipe in order to pay less than they would if bidding continued until there were no further bids.
Well, that's the theory. In practice, how often does it work? I don't think anyone knows. People who use it swear by it but they have no idea what would happen if they just bid the day before and went about their business.
If two people try to snipe with nuclear bids, one of them is going to end up higher than he might have in a more orderly auction.
@amwldcoin said:
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
I don't think the biggest problem is "neutrality".
There's simply too many widgets and other things. You can't easily just scroll through all the Buff Nickels, for example. So, even if you are "Net Neutral", unless someone is specifically looking for a 38-D Buff, they aren't going to find your listing just by scrolling.
@jmlanzaf said:
Well, that's the theory. In practice, how often does it work? I don't think anyone knows. People who use it swear by it but they have no idea what would happen if they just bid the day before and went about their business.
Can't say how it actually turns out, but I'm 100% sure people don't snipe in order to pay more.
@jmlanzaf said:
If two people try to snipe with nuclear bids, one of them is going to end up higher than he might have in a more orderly auction.
And the seller is going to have a returned item because the buyer "Just didn't like it."
@jmlanzaf said:
Well, that's the theory. In practice, how often does it work? I don't think anyone knows. People who use it swear by it but they have no idea what would happen if they just bid the day before and went about their business.
Can't say how it actually turns out, but I'm 100% sure people don't snipe in order to pay more.
@jmlanzaf said:
If two people try to snipe with nuclear bids, one of them is going to end up higher than he might have in a more orderly auction.
And the seller is going to have a returned item because the buyer "Just didn't like it."
Disagree as a nuke bid means you must have that coin.
I am very happy with the below win, I did not return the super awesome coin.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Disagree as a nuke bid means you must have that coin.
I am very happy with the below win, I did not return the super awesome coin.
Is double the current bid a nuclear bid?
edited to add...
What I mean by "nuclear bid" is an amount that's so far above even the most optimistic estimate of value one might ever find that nobody would believe it- say $10,000 for a $100 item. IMO, if you're satisfied with the price you paid, it's not a nuclear bid.
I have a wholesaler friend that does a lot of business with several big ebay junk movers(my term! ). We were talking the other day and he passed along something neither he nor I could ever verify but was told to him. Due to the volume on ebay they are only able to show about 10% of what is listed at any given time.
@amwldcoin said:
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
I don't think the biggest problem is "neutrality".
There's simply too many widgets and other things. You can't easily just scroll through all the Buff Nickels, for example. So, even if you are "Net Neutral", unless someone is specifically looking for a 38-D Buff, they aren't going to find your listing just by scrolling.
@amwldcoin said:
I have a wholesaler friend that does a lot of business with several big ebay junk movers(my term! ). We were talking the other day and he passed along something neither he nor I could ever verify but was told to him. Due to the volume on ebay they are only able to show about 10% of what is listed at any given time.
@amwldcoin said:
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
I don't think the biggest problem is "neutrality".
There's simply too many widgets and other things. You can't easily just scroll through all the Buff Nickels, for example. So, even if you are "Net Neutral", unless someone is specifically looking for a 38-D Buff, they aren't going to find your listing just by scrolling.
I don't think this is true and I'm not sure why anyone would believe it without verification.
Whenever I do a search from my one account for things on the second account, my listings come up in the search. If they were only showing 10% of what is there, I should not be able to find them many times.
@amwldcoin said:
I have a wholesaler friend that does a lot of business with several big ebay junk movers(my term! ). We were talking the other day and he passed along something neither he nor I could ever verify but was told to him. Due to the volume on ebay they are only able to show about 10% of what is listed at any given time.
@amwldcoin said:
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
I don't think the biggest problem is "neutrality".
There's simply too many widgets and other things. You can't easily just scroll through all the Buff Nickels, for example. So, even if you are "Net Neutral", unless someone is specifically looking for a 38-D Buff, they aren't going to find your listing just by scrolling.
I don't think this is true and I'm not sure why anyone would believe it without verification.
Whenever I do a search from my one account for things on the second account, my listings come up in the search. If they were only showing 10% of what is there, I should not be able to find them many times.
Whenever I've searched, I've been able to find my listings. I have noticed when searching closed listings to get an idea on pricing, on occasion there is a message at the top indicating that not all results are shown, with a link to show them all.
Have you contacted the seller and explained how the ebay process cost him money? If the item has not shipped, he can cancel the sale and list it as BIN at your agreed price. More to him, more to ebay, you get the item.
@amwldcoin said:
Really? As an experienced ebay seller you should be well aware that not all listings are treated equally! You do know what "net neutrality" is don't you?
@amwldcoin said:
This is the major flaw in your statement IMHO. This will never be true until ebay becomes "Net Neutral" again.
@airplanenut Outside of shenanigans like what eBay did here, I think the system works pretty well to get items to their rightful price the vast majority of the time (where rightful takes into account a seller having a bad photo, wrong attribution that lets an item slip under the radar, etc.)
Meaning what, exactly?
Net neutrality is based on ISPs (Comcast, Verizon, etc.) giving preferential treatment to some websites/products/companies over others. For example, if they made Netflix slower but Hulu faster to help drive business to the faster service. That has nothing to do with how a private company runs their own private website. So rather than give a snarky answer as if I'm dumb, consider that I asked--as a genuine question--why you brought up an irrelevant term to find out what you actually meant, rather than just assume what you meant.
Net neutrality is Comcast treating all listings the same. eBay dictating their own terms has nothing to do with net neutrality.
@au58 said:
Have you contacted the seller and explained how the ebay process cost him money? If the item has not shipped, he can cancel the sale and list it as BIN at your agreed price. More to him, more to ebay, you get the item.
No can do. As per Ebay rules, there is a contract between buyer and seller. The seller is obligated to sell it to the winner. Yeah, sure, he could cancel it, but he'd surely get a neg from the current buyer. It would be "messy" to say the least. The fix is totally on Ebay's end, but I don't expect them to do anything.
I once in a "nuke bid" for an Au 1922-D Lincoln with the 3 dies cracks on the reverse (die 3) EDS for 110$ and thankfully lost to another sniper. I will never put a bid in for more than what I am willing to pay again.
Ebay likes to default to "Best Match," I bet many people don't always change that. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't do auctions. Their algos won't show many people using default "best match" my coin because it will favor a seller that sells 100 items a month. I think that is why people think that only 10% of items are displayed.
I look at an awful lot of Lincolns, and I'm pretty sure i see everything when I search "Lincoln." Except the few that don't have that in their title.
Side note, my seller finally responded, apologised for the mix up and is sending my woody! That's all I need in order to leave very positive feedback.
They said I could keep the VF 1938 they sent, which is a good thing. An envelope costs more than it's worth.
My grandfather used to tell me a snipe was the guy who would go around eating the big white mint out of public urinals. It's a sick world, glad to see ebay finally cracking down.
@au58 said:
Have you contacted the seller and explained how the ebay process cost him money? If the item has not shipped, he can cancel the sale and list it as BIN at your agreed price. More to him, more to ebay, you get the item.
@gypsylea said:
I can’t fathom how sniping harms sellers.
People snipe in order to pay less than they would if bidding continued until there were no further bids.
I guess I should have said “sellers on eBay.” The rules on eBay are, well, the rules on eBay. Sellers are free to go elsewhere. I put my max bid in Auction Sniper and if it goes past that, I wouldn’t raise it if the ending was delayed for however long. I would say at leas 25% of the time I know from looking at the current bids I am outbid or am very close to my max. I have never raised my snipe, which you can do as long as 5 minutes plus are left.
Please don’t presume to know my motives. I bid on only the best of the items that interest me, and I have been stretched to my limit or very close many, many times. I snipe because it is efficient, I never miss an auction ending (there are many European sellers of the items I pursue), and it is at least a modest defense against shills. There is no Santa Claus in numismatics nor is there in many other collectible markets.
But looking at coins, I can understand the reluctance of sellers to use the true auction format. I see mostly widgets (to borrow a phrase) that are optimistically priced as BIN offerings and seem to stay around forever with few watchers. If those coins were listed at 99 cents no reserve the sellers would get killed. Regardless of when the auction ended. The problem isn’t the format, it is the volume of same old same old product in a declining hobby.
Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
Auctions on eBay aren't what they used to be. And for me, even fairly priced BINs brings out lowball offers and the worst of "tire kickers". Sniping might be a strategy but if it's a coin I want, no snipe will help the nuclear bidder in me. This will only help the seller. And that's good for eBay and business.
eBay's model doesn't fit well with extended bidding after late bid because they have many auctions ending at the same time and it would be extremely difficult to follow all the auctions you care about.
The reason Heritage and Stack's can do extended bidding more easily is because they have sequential auctions so active bidding on one auction pushes all subsequent auctions back.
Comments
I’m guessing he is referring to promoted listings and the eBay search algorithms which prioritize certain sellers over others (those that pay extra or have special deals set up). Not every item gets the same exposure.
Well, that's the theory. In practice, how often does it work? I don't think anyone knows. People who use it swear by it but they have no idea what would happen if they just bid the day before and went about their business.
If two people try to snipe with nuclear bids, one of them is going to end up higher than he might have in a more orderly auction.
I don't think the biggest problem is "neutrality".
There's simply too many widgets and other things. You can't easily just scroll through all the Buff Nickels, for example. So, even if you are "Net Neutral", unless someone is specifically looking for a 38-D Buff, they aren't going to find your listing just by scrolling.
Can't say how it actually turns out, but I'm 100% sure people don't snipe in order to pay more.
And the seller is going to have a returned item because the buyer "Just didn't like it."
Disagree as a nuke bid means you must have that coin.
I am very happy with the below win, I did not return the super awesome coin.
Is double the current bid a nuclear bid?
edited to add...
What I mean by "nuclear bid" is an amount that's so far above even the most optimistic estimate of value one might ever find that nobody would believe it- say $10,000 for a $100 item. IMO, if you're satisfied with the price you paid, it's not a nuclear bid.
I have a wholesaler friend that does a lot of business with several big ebay junk movers(my term!
). We were talking the other day and he passed along something neither he nor I could ever verify but was told to him. Due to the volume on ebay they are only able to show about 10% of what is listed at any given time.
I don't think this is true and I'm not sure why anyone would believe it without verification.
Whenever I do a search from my one account for things on the second account, my listings come up in the search. If they were only showing 10% of what is there, I should not be able to find them many times.
I do the same thing and have had mine not show up at times.
I still say urban legend. In what possible way would that benefit eBay?
All I can say is there is a limit to server capacity.
Maybe he also used a snipe program.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
It's all still on the server. So, it's still not clear how it would benefit them to hide it.
It's also not a bandwidth issue because they only show you one page of results at a time.
Whenever I've searched, I've been able to find my listings. I have noticed when searching closed listings to get an idea on pricing, on occasion there is a message at the top indicating that not all results are shown, with a link to show them all.
Have you contacted the seller and explained how the ebay process cost him money? If the item has not shipped, he can cancel the sale and list it as BIN at your agreed price. More to him, more to ebay, you get the item.
Net neutrality is based on ISPs (Comcast, Verizon, etc.) giving preferential treatment to some websites/products/companies over others. For example, if they made Netflix slower but Hulu faster to help drive business to the faster service. That has nothing to do with how a private company runs their own private website. So rather than give a snarky answer as if I'm dumb, consider that I asked--as a genuine question--why you brought up an irrelevant term to find out what you actually meant, rather than just assume what you meant.
Net neutrality is Comcast treating all listings the same. eBay dictating their own terms has nothing to do with net neutrality.
No can do. As per Ebay rules, there is a contract between buyer and seller. The seller is obligated to sell it to the winner. Yeah, sure, he could cancel it, but he'd surely get a neg from the current buyer. It would be "messy" to say the least. The fix is totally on Ebay's end, but I don't expect them to do anything.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I once in a "nuke bid" for an Au 1922-D Lincoln with the 3 dies cracks on the reverse (die 3) EDS for 110$ and thankfully lost to another sniper. I will never put a bid in for more than what I am willing to pay again.
Ebay likes to default to "Best Match," I bet many people don't always change that. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't do auctions. Their algos won't show many people using default "best match" my coin because it will favor a seller that sells 100 items a month. I think that is why people think that only 10% of items are displayed.
I look at an awful lot of Lincolns, and I'm pretty sure i see everything when I search "Lincoln." Except the few that don't have that in their title.
Side note, my seller finally responded, apologised for the mix up and is sending my woody! That's all I need in order to leave very positive feedback.
They said I could keep the VF 1938 they sent, which is a good thing. An envelope costs more than it's worth.
http://www.silverstocker.com
Anyone can PM me Any Time about Any thing.
My grandfather used to tell me a snipe was the guy who would go around eating the big white mint out of public urinals. It's a sick world, glad to see ebay finally cracking down.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Not ethical, but it happens.
I guess I should have said “sellers on eBay.” The rules on eBay are, well, the rules on eBay. Sellers are free to go elsewhere. I put my max bid in Auction Sniper and if it goes past that, I wouldn’t raise it if the ending was delayed for however long. I would say at leas 25% of the time I know from looking at the current bids I am outbid or am very close to my max. I have never raised my snipe, which you can do as long as 5 minutes plus are left.
Please don’t presume to know my motives. I bid on only the best of the items that interest me, and I have been stretched to my limit or very close many, many times. I snipe because it is efficient, I never miss an auction ending (there are many European sellers of the items I pursue), and it is at least a modest defense against shills. There is no Santa Claus in numismatics nor is there in many other collectible markets.
But looking at coins, I can understand the reluctance of sellers to use the true auction format. I see mostly widgets (to borrow a phrase) that are optimistically priced as BIN offerings and seem to stay around forever with few watchers. If those coins were listed at 99 cents no reserve the sellers would get killed. Regardless of when the auction ended. The problem isn’t the format, it is the volume of same old same old product in a declining hobby.
Auctions on eBay aren't what they used to be. And for me, even fairly priced BINs brings out lowball offers and the worst of "tire kickers". Sniping might be a strategy but if it's a coin I want, no snipe will help the nuclear bidder in me. This will only help the seller. And that's good for eBay and business.
In the end, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it. "
How about you just put in your max bid—whenever.
You will achieve the same results.
Sniping is so 2004.
For items significantly over 1K, I’ll start bidding twice. One low bid immediately to make sure there’s no problem, and one snipe.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Ebay would do well to adopt the extended bidding after a late bid model that Heritage uses in their weekly internet auctions.
Would bring in a bit of extra cheese for the sellers as well as Ebay.
eBay's model doesn't fit well with extended bidding after late bid because they have many auctions ending at the same time and it would be extremely difficult to follow all the auctions you care about.
The reason Heritage and Stack's can do extended bidding more easily is because they have sequential auctions so active bidding on one auction pushes all subsequent auctions back.
I'm not sure how GC works.
It happened to me today on a $50 coin. Has the bay blocked AS?