What are the biggest issues in our hobby?

Air23GOAT · August 29, 2019 10:17AM

I think the biggest & most obvious problem in our hobby is counterfeiters & fakes. I don't think we will ever be free of them as long as cards remain as popular & valuable as they are.
Any kid used to be able to buy a pack for a few bucks & pull out a rc or whatever. Anyone could pull a high value card. It was pure chance. Now if you want to pull a high value card you have to spend around $1,000 for a pack. Not only does that not seem fair to young collectors who don't have adult income but it really takes away - from the adult supercollector to the kid buying his very first pack - having a shot at pulling that whale. I hope it doesn't discourage & turn away too many young up & coming collectors.

I could be wrong, I guess. What do you think the biggest problems in our hobby are & how has it directly affected you? I'm curious to see what you all think & hear your stories.

Mickey71 · August 29, 2019 10:45AM

EBAY tinkering with their system every second which makes sellers have to change all the time. Internet sales tax is huge....HUGE. And obviously the current fiasco needs to get cleaned up a little and the big offenders punished and banished from the hobby.

perkdog · August 29, 2019 10:47AM

Can someone pass the popcorn please

doubledragon · August 29, 2019 10:51AM

I would have to agree with the high prices. A lot of sellers just charge too much. It turns people away from the hobby.

Air23GOAT · August 29, 2019 11:04AM

@Mickey71 said:
EBAY tinkering with their system every second which makes sellers have to change all the time. Internet sales tax is huge....HUGE. And obviously the current fiasco needs to get cleaned up a little and the big offenders punished and banished from the hobby.

Ebay is great but their 10% of the sales price fee is too high. With that & PayPal taking their piece it's frustrating to say the least. And that's not even considering paying taxes if you've made a profit. Is that what you meant with Internet sales tax?

Air23GOAT · August 29, 2019 11:08AM

@doubledragon said:
I would have to agree with the high prices. A lot of sellers just charge too much. It turns people away from the hobby.

Can you imagine collecting as a kid with how things are today? Do you think you would've even been able to collect at all? I hope so but it's something to consider. Or will collecting be something only for adults in the future?

ndleo · August 29, 2019 11:26AM

I set the over/under at 35 posts, place ur bets.

LarkinCollector · August 29, 2019 11:32AM

@ndleo said:
I set the over/under at 35 posts, place ur bets.

I'm optimistic today, give me 10 on the over

doubledragon · August 29, 2019 11:32AM

@Air23GOAT said:

@doubledragon said:
I would have to agree with the high prices. A lot of sellers just charge too much. It turns people away from the hobby.

Can you imagine collecting as a kid with how things are today? Do you think you would've even been able to collect at all? I hope so but it's something to consider. Or will collecting be something only for adults in the future?

I can't imagine. That's a lot of chores I would have to do for an allowance. I hope they want to collect in the future, but I wouldn't blame them if they didn't. A lot of prices are just too high.

thunderdan · August 29, 2019 11:39AM

Festivus comes early this year. The airing of grievances.

Mickey71 · August 29, 2019 11:46AM

Air23GOAT,

Sales tax for the buyer is what I meant. It discourages a lot of buying. Although, could increase quality of local shows???

BaltimoreYankee · August 29, 2019 11:54AM

Biggest issues: Fraud in packs, fraud in individual cards, fraud in autographs. Obviously the current topic of the last six weeks makes TPG cards more heavily scrutinized.
I had a few PSA graded 1971 Topps Greatest Moments cards for sale on eBay a couple weeks ago and someone actually asked me if I knew if they were altered. I don't believe they are but not a good look for the hobby. I personally am backing off graded cards for a while.

Horse · August 29, 2019 12:02PM

My dog and his associated weenis will just be watching this thread from now on.

NJ80sBBC · August 29, 2019 2:21PM

Here’s my $.02

The price of packs forces buyers to expect meaningful and measurable financial value from the contents. While this seems obvious to all, it will most likely pivot a kid who is buying expensive packs to immediately focus on the financial elements (Acuna auto etc) vs building the set or just pulling his favorite player or Team. My first packs were all about trying to get Yankees. Granted it didn’t take very long for the financial element to take over, but had I started younger my .30 per pack purchases of flagship TOPPS would have all been about building sets and collecting my favorite players. Not trying to hit the 1/1, auto etc

John

ReggieCleveland · August 29, 2019 2:37PM

I actually disagree.

It's taken a while for the landscape to catch up but the MLB "rookie card" rule has actually made it so anyone can walk into their local retailer, buy a pack of cards for $2-$3, and pull a currently in-demand rookie card. And I'm not talking about a long-odds autograph or mega-googly-star-volcanic-plasma parallel numbered to /10, either. I'm talking about a straight base card. Lots of Acuna/Soto/Torres/Ohtani base cards from 2018 are hot potatoes right now and I imagine it will be that way for Tatis/Alonso/Jimenez/Sensel/Hiura, too.

Now, packs aren't 1990 $0.50 cheap, but the product is better and possible return, as well. It wasn't that long ago that when a young kid got called up and set the world on fire, everyone went back 3 years and dug out their first Bowman auto cards and made a fortune and that was it. At least now there's a demand for current product that is available in retail stores that everyone has access to. I think that's a huge improvement on the hobby landscape and those first Bowman autos are still worth a fortune.

Arthur

gemint · August 29, 2019 3:30PM

I don't get the concerns about high prices and why that would turn people away from the hobby. Unless someone is expecting to be able to buy a NM-MT 50s Mantle or a 1-of-1 hot auto rookie for pocket change and be able to turn around and sell it for thousands, high prices should not deter them. If they are true collectors they will fit their collecting goals within their budget. Most people can't afford NM-MT 50s Mantle's or an auto Brady RC. But most people can afford a beat up 50s Mantle or a regular issue Brady RC or lower grade Jordan RC.

Most of us would love to own a T-206 Wagner but we aren't deterred from collecting because we can't afford one.

NGS428 · August 29, 2019 3:37PM

@LarkinCollector said:

@ndleo said:
I set the over/under at 35 posts, place ur bets.

I'm optimistic today, give me 10 on the over

Post 17. Just providing a count for the bet.

doubledragon · August 29, 2019 3:50PM

Sadly, Most kids would rather get an Xbox rather than a couple of boxes of Bowman. Hobby boxes aren't cheap. An Xbox would be more appealing for that kind of money, for a kid.

DBesse27 · August 29, 2019 3:57PM

@doubledragon said:
Most kids would rather get an Xbox rather than a couple of boxes of Bowman. Hobby boxes aren't cheap. An Xbox would be more appealing for that kind of money, for a kid.

Yeah, but modern Bowman sucks. Give me the XBox too!

Huskies11 · August 29, 2019 6:02PM

I'm not sure how much I buy the video games argument anymore. I know I'm on the younger end of people on this board but I grew up with tons of video games and that didn't effect my passion for the hobby. I'm starting to think it's just a secular change in our culture and baseball cards just aren't a part of it. Baseball has also been the sport that has historically carried the hobby, and the sport is less popular among youth than ever.

Tibor · August 29, 2019 8:48PM

Getting the under 35 crowd interested in the hobby.
Agreeing on which card is the Rookie Card for players.
So many minute varieties for one card, the Rainbow issue.
Large auction houses and Ebay collecting tax for every state on top of their
Buy/Sell fees.
Counterfeits with cards and autographs.
Card "Doctoring" has to be addressed. Will the TPG's refund money for their mistakes?

RAPTORSRULE04 · August 29, 2019 9:34PM

I'm really old I bought cards because of the players. I didn't think about rookie cards condition i just wanted the set. Packs were a nickel back then and we were pure. I wish i had lots of wax from then.

PROMETHIUS88 · August 29, 2019 10:32PM

@ReggieCleveland said:
I actually disagree.

It's taken a while for the landscape to catch up but the MLB "rookie card" rule has actually made it so anyone can walk into their local retailer, buy a pack of cards for $2-$3, and pull a currently in-demand rookie card. And I'm not talking about a long-odds autograph or mega-googly-star-volcanic-plasma parallel numbered to /10, either. I'm talking about a straight base card. Lots of Acuna/Soto/Torres/Ohtani base cards from 2018 are hot potatoes right now and I imagine it will be that way for Tatis/Alonso/Jimenez/Sensel/Hiura, too.

Now, packs aren't 1990 $0.50 cheap, but the product is better and possible return, as well. It wasn't that long ago that when a young kid got called up and set the world on fire, everyone went back 3 years and dug out their first Bowman auto cards and made a fortune and that was it. At least now there's a demand for current product that is available in retail stores that everyone has access to. I think that's a huge improvement on the hobby landscape and those first Bowman autos are still worth a fortune.

Arthur

I don't know what this is but I damn sure am not going to rest until I find one!!! It really sounds amazing.

Tabe · August 29, 2019 11:24PM

@Air23GOAT said:

@Mickey71 said:
EBAY tinkering with their system every second which makes sellers have to change all the time. Internet sales tax is huge....HUGE. And obviously the current fiasco needs to get cleaned up a little and the big offenders punished and banished from the hobby.

Ebay is great but their 10% of the sales price fee is too high. With that & PayPal taking their piece it's frustrating to say the least. And that's not even considering paying taxes if you've made a profit. Is that what you meant with Internet sales tax?

No. EBay collects sales taxes for a whole bunch of states.

garnettstyle · August 30, 2019 2:23AM

@Tabe said:

@Air23GOAT said:

@Mickey71 said:
EBAY tinkering with their system every second which makes sellers have to change all the time. Internet sales tax is huge....HUGE. And obviously the current fiasco needs to get cleaned up a little and the big offenders punished and banished from the hobby.

Ebay is great but their 10% of the sales price fee is too high. With that & PayPal taking their piece it's frustrating to say the least. And that's not even considering paying taxes if you've made a profit. Is that what you meant with Internet sales tax?

No. EBay collects sales taxes for a whole bunch of states.

This has hurt my ebay sales immensely.

jay0791 · August 30, 2019 3:23AM

Sales Tax is easily #1
I buy only PSA cards so I am not afraid of counterfeits. I also have educated myself on most of them.
Si they are not really an issue with me.

I have returned one card to PWCC as per their request so I know they and others are working to resolve this latest
issue. I still have confidence in PSA

baz518 · August 30, 2019 5:16AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "exclusive" licensing all the major sports now have with the different card companies. I think that may be the root cause of some of the other issues... i.e., set building, high prices, etc. Competition is a good thing!

80sOPC · August 30, 2019 6:22AM

This is a good point and it has killed my interest in new hockey products. UD’s new releases are largely garbage - no competition has been crushing for hockey collectors.

@baz518 said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "exclusive" licensing all the major sports now have with the different card companies. I think that may be the root cause of some of the other issues... i.e., set building, high prices, etc. Competition is a good thing!

davidlisa · August 30, 2019 7:00AM

I'm still waiting for PSA to give a explanation as to how all those doctored cards ended up in their holders. I'm also concerned about the legitimacy of unopened material whether it is wrapped or not.

Air23GOAT · August 30, 2019 8:01AM

@Tibor said:
Getting the under 35 crowd interested in the hobby.
Agreeing on which card is the Rookie Card for players.
So many minute varieties for one card, the Rainbow issue.
Large auction houses and Ebay collecting tax for every state on top of their
Buy/Sell fees.
Counterfeits with cards and autographs.
Card "Doctoring" has to be addressed. Will the TPG's refund money for their mistakes?

I'd like to see more people under 35 get into collecting too.
Don't get me started on real rookie cards. As a Jordan collector I see everything from that perspective & most of you know the '84 Star vs '86 Fleer rc argument. I side with the '84 Star but that's another thread.
I'm seeing a number of you mentioning the eBay sales tax. I wasn't aware it was such a big issue but if they're making that on top of their 10% & other fees then that's garbage.

georgebailey2 · August 30, 2019 8:13AM

@MLBdays said:
..... go to www.stickitbackin.com .... its been a long time coming.

A few thoughts:

It will be interesting to see what happens to the collector base over the next 10-20 years. Other than the top 200 cards, will there be enough demand for baby boomers' collections that get released into the wild to support current pricing?

With the amount of product, sps, ssps, parallels, autos, patches, patch/autos, etc., are the card companies fulfilling Syndrome's prophecy, "And when everyone's super, no one will be." There are too many choices. What will maintain value when there are 100+ equally shiny cards of a star player produced each year? That said, this has allowed my boys to obtain some really nice autographed, auto/patch cards of Embiid, Erving, Iverson, Magic, and other HOFers in the $10 to $60 range which is way cheaper than trying to get in person autos.

The lottery effect of these types of cards has caused another significant problem. The card manufacturers cannot guarantee 100% production uniformity and card doctors have improved their skills such that third party graders cannot detect alterations as they are within the manufacturer's tolerances. Perhaps these types of cards should only be authenticated and not given numerical grades?

ndleo · August 30, 2019 8:56AM

I hope the feds make EVERYONE involved open up the kimono to show the poor collectors how all this happened. I’m still curious how how the OC gang trimmed the thick modern cards without showing any signs on the foil or ultra thick cards.

miwlvrn · August 30, 2019 9:09AM

@ndleo said:
I set the over/under at 35 posts, place ur bets.

Ha Ha, here is post 34. Next one in is the push!

mexpo75 · August 30, 2019 9:13AM

35 it is! I think the biggest problem is trust.

LGC · August 30, 2019 9:44AM

@mexpo75 said:
35 it is! I think the biggest problem is trust.

Agreed. Simple but profound.

Horse · August 30, 2019 3:38PM

I was walking down the road yesterday and past a farm. A sign there said "Duck,Eggs" Was thinking these wild hicks do not know grammar very well. A word, a comma, and another word, is not a statement.

Then it hit me.

1951WheatiesPremium · August 30, 2019 5:24PM

@Horse said:
I was walking down the road yesterday and past a farm. A sign there said "Duck,Eggs" Was thinking these wild hicks do not know grammar very well. A word, a comma, and another word, is not a statement.

Then it hit me.

Excellent.

70ToppsFanatic · August 30, 2019 7:37PM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@Horse said:
I was walking down the road yesterday and past a farm. A sign there said "Duck,Eggs" Was thinking these wild hicks do not know grammar very well. A word, a comma, and another word, is not a statement.

Then it hit me.

Excellent.

Don't you mean EGGcellent?

al032184 · August 30, 2019 9:26PM

Ebay scammers and ignorant buyers who don't understand what they're bidding on. Spirit killers. Also ebay customer service, who seems to enable this crap.

DM23HOF · August 31, 2019 8:17AM

Toxic online forums infested with the bilious.

2dueces · August 31, 2019 9:55AM

In this instant gratification world I think the biggest problem is keeping the youth interested in 4 hour baseball games. This will eventually effect the baseball collector base. I’m almost exclusively a football collector but baseball has always been king. Interested to see how this translates 10-15 years down the road.

Gemyanks10 · August 31, 2019 12:38PM

Lack of shows/shops as compared to 25 years ago. Miss meeting dealers and fellow collectors, and doing business in person as opposed to random internet people on eBay. Certain forum members/Facebook group members I’ve met in person due to living close, but miss the abundance of shows and shops like it used to be...

LGC · August 31, 2019 1:49PM

@Gemyanks10 said:
Lack of shows/shops as compared to 25 years ago. Miss meeting dealers and fellow collectors, and doing business in person as opposed to random internet people on eBay. Certain forum members/Facebook group members I’ve met in person due to living close, but miss the abundance of shows and shops like it used to be...

I miss the holding of and the up-front and direct assessment of a card before I decide. Even if I decide to pass, I learn so much more about what I collect. The assessment may include a conversation with the seller and the gleaning of any thoughts from their side.

BLUEJAYWAY · August 31, 2019 9:41PM

Hoping there will be a future active collector base to buy all our stuff.

steel75 · September 1, 2019 4:58AM

I would have to agree with a couple of previous posts about card shops/local shows all but vanishing. Sure Ebay and the rest of them are convenient, but it does not have the same feel to me. I used to enjoy walking around local shows or chatting at the local card shop. Now it's "click", I own it.

Gemyanks10 · September 1, 2019 7:44AM

@steel75 said:
I would have to agree with a couple of previous posts about card shops/local shows all but vanishing. Sure Ebay and the rest of them are convenient, but it does have the same feel to me. I used to enjoy walking around local shows or chatting at the local card shop. Now it's "click", I own it.

Yep..when I was 12-13 years old, every Tuesday night, my father and I would go to our favorite card shop in the area and the owner would treat us to pizza and soda while we looked through his 5000 count boxes of Topps baseball commons - misc years - trying to build nice raw binder sets. We would get there, eat, talk about the hobby, and then would usually find myself lost in his commons boxes for hours. The stars would be in the showcase lol. At the time, It was mostly just early 80’s baseball I was working on. I still have them. The transparency/building relationships like that seems to be long gone.

Air23GOAT · September 1, 2019 9:38AM

The 3 best places in the world to go as a kid was Toys R Us, the arcade, & comic/card shops.
I still like to go into card shops but when I do they're desolate & kind of depressing. They're dying off & I don't see them making a comeback.

doubledragon · September 1, 2019 9:53AM

I used to practically live in card shops when I was younger, but now there's only one card shop left in the city I live in, and it isn't even a good shop. It is quite sad. Now I'm forced to hang out at Taco Bell.

Air23GOAT · September 1, 2019 10:21AM

@doubledragon said:
I used to practically live in card shops when I was younger, but now there's only one card shop left in the city I live in, and it isn't even a good shop. It is quite sad. Now I'm forced to hang out at Taco Bell.

Actually that's what I've heard - collectors being forced to hang out at Taco Bells. Now if you walk into a Taco Bell you see weird guys just walking around like zombies asking random people if they see any unopened packs laying around.

What are the biggest issues in our hobby?

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