Possible reason for scarcity of 1909 VDB proof cents...?
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
1909 VDB proof cents have long been considered much scarcer than their mintage of 1,194 implies. Lots of reasons have been given, but nothing definitive has turned up.
This little letter, when read in context of Treasury Secretary MacVeagh's August 5 order to stop production and remove the designer's initials, offers another possibility.
With production stopped August 5, and publicity to that effect reaching the public by the 6th, anyone in Philadelphia could have speculated that both circulation VDB cents and especially proof VDB cents would become valuable. According to this letter, the release date for proof cents was about August 10 - four days after VDB removal publicity. It is possible that one person, with $12 to spare, might have bought almost all 1909 VDB proof cents as soon as they became available.
With these coins being very similar in appearance to normal circulation coins, and no great premium for them, it is plausible that the buyer sold them off for whatever he could get, or even put them into circulation.
Just a thought.
Comments
That letter is dated July 29 which is prior to the stop of production on August 5th. When was the August 5th order given? Isn't it possible that things changed AFTER that letter was sent?
At least two people were in the “know” prior to the sending if any letter.
The originator and the typist.
Another letter of August 10 states that proofs are available from the Superintendent.
The Stop order was August 5.
Thus, there was a period of a few days when the Stop order was public knowledge, but proof Lincolns w/VDB were not available. Once proofs went on sale, one astute person could have bought almost all for $12. This is, of course, speculative. If we had the proof sales records we could know what happened.
The typist might not have known much. Typing was a nearly automaton function with the typist not really reading what they were typing.
Still is, or haven't you read emails and board postings recently?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The only reason for the ‘scarcity ‘ is the vast hoard of them...
Apologize about the order of the proofs.
There’s 4 proofs 1 is a Roman Gold. With “toning” coming out of nose.
Very common for proofs. It’s labeled MS 64
Like many VDB’s proofs labeled incorrectly
Probably has something to do with the extreme price difference.
That’s 1 that’s without a doubt. Have had 3 dealers look at it.
All 3 agreed it was a proof. I have seen. 1909 VDB’s, 1909, 1913,&1915 with the Roman gold proof with toning coming out of nose.
Next is a purple one with Gold letters and small but very small tight squared rims.
@Prooflincolndie2 Why don't you post a 1000 more photos that we don't know WTF you're talking about?
What a bizarre image dump.
I have a headache........
Resurrected a three-year-old thread just to post that series of non-sequiturs, too...
Thank you, you were far nicer than I would have been
BHNC #203
Whatever point @Prooflincolndie2 was trying to make was completely lost in that screen dump mess. At least crop out the non related stuff.
You actually expect people to sort through that and figure out what you're saying? Don't think so.
I still can't believe @RogerB was banned!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Graves Disease can cause psychosis
Well, I have learned one thing from these photos, someone doesn't know how to spell CORN.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I believe he has about 100 1909 VDB cents that he is convinced are matte proofs. He jumbled it up with real MPL's to make sure we had no idea which coins he owned it seems too
.
The OP post is very interesting though!
Coin Photographer.
It sounds like his first hundred examples he was saying because the toning is similar it has to be a proof. A better way would be to show at least one diagnostic. I didn’t see one on any of his VDB’s. These are usually pretty easy to spot on the VDB MPL.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Here is the previous closed thread that appears to be something similar but I confess I did not look that closely.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1068395/test-post-errors-wasted-time-my-bad
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I think this is the same person that thinks every 1909 VDB they have ever purchased is a proof.
Also the same person that has been listing common MS vdb's for 50K on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234651589859
I think we have the answer right here.
"In severe cases, serious manifestations, including impairment in memory, orientation, and judgment; manic excitement; delusions; and hallucinations have been reported"
I think I need to hire a forensic accountant to interpret this thread.
As Professor Gumby would say: "MY BRAIN HURTS!"
What a waste of thread space. I did report that ludicrous listing too, it's a stain in the underwear of Ebay.
10-4,
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